How to shut down the stay-at-home-princess without being perceived as a total dick

Schaefer

My wife is a stay at home mom. Literally. She doesn't drive, so she's relegated to staying at home taking care of our 2 year old. 

I will typically get an attitude from her when I come home late from work, and while I am perfectly calm in her presence, and I refuse to apologize for providing a roof over our heads, I'm really at a loss for words when she makes comments as she did tonight:

Me ( in a text a 5:30pm) - feel free to eat without me, I doubt I'll be home before 7:30

Her - Grr, this always happens when I make meatloaf! 

Me (at 7:15) - okay, it will be more like 9:30 (I just had 2 more service calls come in after hours)

Her - Fantastic, I thought you weren't on call? 

Me - I took (co-worker's) calls for the weekend (yeah I may have forgotten to mention that to her. whoops)

Her - So, when do I get a friggin' break?!


I realize that in this instance, I screwed up by not giving her a heads up about being on call. Last weekend my co-worker took care of my calls because I was at a funeral out of state. My wife chose to stay at home with the kid. I was returning the favor. This is not the norm, but her attitude is.

However, the general attitude from her is that I work too much, make too little, do too little around the house and don't relieve her boredom. 

In my mind, I constantly fight the urge to blow up and tell her to pull her head out of her ass, and how dare she say that to me after I've just worked a 14 hour day going up in attics and working out in the blistering sun and oppressive humidity. That she's not anything close to the 1950's harried housewife she wants to project herself to be. That she's spent her whole life engineering her own misery, and it's utter bullshit that she tries to hold me accountable for her refusal to put forth any effort in improving her life.

Instead, I say nothing, I don't text back, kiss her stiff lips when I get home, take a shower and heat up a plate of dinner. The only thing she says is "he's(our son) still up if you want to go see him" in a pissy tone as she's walking past me into the bedroom. "OK" I say. I let her sulk herself to sleep.

So.... How would you say the above paragraph in such a way that comes across as calm, assertive, yet not demeaning tone? 

Keep in mind, I realize it's no picnic raising a 2 year old, but I don't believe for one second that she couldn't take more on her plate. 

Tennee

Aaaaaand let's dispense with Question #1 first:  why doesn't she drive?

DaddyOh

On call means MD? 

Schaefer

To clear a few things up: 

I'm a service technician.  When I'm "on call" I can't predict when the calls will stop coming in. I told her 7:30 at first because it was a reasonable assumption based on the calls I had left,  but then I got two more a little later. 


She doesn't drive because she states she gets anxiety from it. She has her learner's permit and used to drive around with a previous boyfriend,  but one day she froze up while in traffic or something and the boyfriend yelled at her,  so she hasn't been behind the wheel since.  She had said she's going to work on it and has gotten pissy when I brought it up in the past - saying "I know! you don't have to keep reminding me of my shortcomings! "

Quite Franky, I'm at the point where I am ready to phase 4 her and tell her if she doesn't shape up,  start working on driving and quitting smoking (she did in the past but fell off the wagon)

Mongrel

I take it he's a HVAC tech or similar.

Triage and very insightful thread here:  http://marriedmansexlife.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/14430/shaefers-triage#latest

Right off I see two dynamics at work here. One, your wife is an entitled princess even though she doesn't come from a background of luxury. 37 and no driver's license? You met her when she was working in a grocery store? This is a woman who wants to do the absolute minimum required to get through life. I imagine her actually having to work (being a mom) is driving her crazy.

The other thing is you are a classic White Knight, riding in to rescue her from her mother, shitty job, no license, no future, etc. I hope you have read NMMNG; if not, you need to.

I think she will be a tough nut to crack. You are a plow-horse to her. Consider but don't necessarily take my advice, as I am no expert like Athol. I think you need to be nearly MGTOW in your marriage. Lead, but be your own man. Make yourself happy and stop worrying about pleasing the princess. You really are holding all the cards in this relationship. Her only option is to go home to mommy. She can't make it on her own. 

I am curious what her relationship (if any) with her father was like?

Angeline

DaddyOh said:

On call means MD? 

Not if he works service calls in blistering sun or in attics. Sounds like A/C tech.

Triage here: http://marriedmansexlife.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/14430/shaefers-triage/

Whose decision was it for her to stay home with your child? Was there a sunset on this deal such as "until school starts" or "until college"? Does she do a good job of being a housewife?

Was she involved in the decision to have your mother come live with you? Is your mom a positive influence on the household? What's the timeframe on her being out and supporting herself?

Are you as angry and sarcastic in person as you sound in your threads? Can you speak honestly to her about your expectations of her without retreating into either sarcasm or too nicey-nice? Have you read "No More Mister Nice Guy" by Richard Glover? Have you done any sort of counseling as a couple?

Schaefer

There has been no sunset on the stay at home mom gig. I don't really care if she stays at home forever,  but I certainly don't want to hear her complaining about it, and the informal but verbal agreement was that when we removed her job and mother as sources of negativity in her life,  she'd be in a much better head space to improving her life. 

She does an excellent job when she is being a housewife, but I'm still dusting, vacuuming,  and mopping floors on Sundays on top of mowing the lawn and feeding the kid breakfast while she cleans our bathroom, does some misc. Laundry, and pledges (you know,"wet dusting " the wood furniture. She claims it's next to impossible to do all these things while having to watch the kid, yet it somehow got done last weekend without my intervention. 

My wife was strongly pushing for my mom to live with us,  believe it or not.  They normally get along great,  aside from when my mom doesn't read my wife's mind. However,  my mom had minor back surgery at the end of April and won't be back to work until the end of this month.  She's been "annoyingly present" I get that.  I love my mom,  but would rather not live with her.

The anger/sarcasm thing is an internal conflict of mine.  I learned so be time ago that it's unproductive to speak that way to people, and while I am outwardly a very positive person, sometimes it takes a lot of brain power to suppress the pithy comments when I hear a line of complete BS.

Schaefer

Her relationship with her father is non-existent. He is A POS and physically abused his wives. I met him once. He's a dumbass. 

Athol_Kay

Not having the ability to drive means she will always be dependent on you.

Schaefer

Athol_Kay said:

Not having the ability to drive means she will always be dependent on you.

Yup.  I'm trying to find a polite way to let her know this. You know,  so she can't say I am an abusive monster to the judge/lawyers if it comes to that. 

Schaefer

I've read no more Mr nice guy,  no counseling as a couple or individually. 

I'm having trouble applying the NMMNG /MMSL principles in this situation without coming across as an angry prick

Athol_Kay

Schaefer said:

Athol_Kay said:

Not having the ability to drive means she will always be dependent on you.

Yup.  I'm trying to find a polite way to let her know this. You know,  so she can't say I am an abusive monster to the judge/lawyers if it comes to that. 

There's polite ways of doing it, but no ways of doing it that won't be framed by her as being you being some horrible monster.

You're going to have to be willing to be seen as being mean to her, in order to address it.

And you're over reacting if you worried a court will view a request to learn to drive as abusive.

frillyfun

There really isn't a nice way to tell someone to "act right".  It's also tough to respect anyone who can't do basic shit like drive, so even if your wife does have a valid point it's tough to hear because you don't respect her as a FO (because she definitely has flaws).  So you're both working against a current of underlying anger, and disrespect.

A couple of things jumped out at me (and I could be wrong):
You don't seem to have much of a plan.  She seems to dictate the weekend schedule.  Change that, and let her know.  This weekend we're doing xyz (fun, or highly necessary things).

Communicate the plans, and goals so that you're both on the same page.

Stop enabling her bad behaviors.  She doesn't work, or drive, so if she wants a pack of cigarettes she needs to find enough change in the couch cushions, and walk her ass to the store to get them.  There will be a lot of push back from her on this. 

Being a service tech makes it tough to always have a plan (my H was one), so in situations where you can't plan then setting up a protocol is a good option.  Hospitals can't plan what's going to happen, so they have lots, and lots of protocols for different scenarios so they can handle situations as they arise.  Everyone knows the protocol, and can act accordingly.

A protocol for an on-call night would be something like you tell her not to expect you home, and you grab dinner where you can.  From there she knows she's handling dinner, and bedtime by herself.  If you're home earlier then it's a pleasant surprise.

Have you watched Nice Card, Mean Card?  They're excellent, and I think they'd be very helpful to you.

Schaefer

Athol_Kay said:

Schaefer said:

Athol_Kay said:

Not having the ability to drive means she will always be dependent on you.

Yup.  I'm trying to find a polite way to let her know this. You know,  so she can't say I am an abusive monster to the judge/lawyers if it comes to that. 

There's polite ways of doing it, but no ways of doing it that won't be framed by her as being you being some horrible monster.

You're going to have to be willing to be seen as being mean to her, in order to address it.

And you're over reacting if you worried a court will view a request to learn to drive as abusive.

Thanks.  So my quest for the holy grail was in vain,  there is no real way to get my point across without coming across as mean. 

The court comment is more worry on my part that I'm essentially dealing with a rat who's being cornered with no means to escape. Her options will literally be to either step up to the plate as my wife or go back to her mom and live in a trailer. Or she can make me out to be a total monster and attempt to take me for all I'm worth.  I'll survive either way, but I'd still rather see her step up to the plate. 

Husband3point0

Are you sure you went through NMMNG?  What were the results of exercises say... 12-23? Pick a few highlights and post them. 

You clearly have a lot of rage, but I'm not seeing how you're actually leveraging that into action by trying to effectuate any sort of meaningful long-term change. There's a lot of seething undertones to your posts. 

forestleaf

A rat?  It seems pretty clear where you're going with this relationship mentally.  

Schaefer

frillyfun said:

There really isn't a nice way to tell someone to "act right".  It's also tough to respect anyone who can't do basic shit like drive, so even if your wife does have a valid point it's tough to hear because you don't respect her as a FO (because she definitely has flaws).  So you're both working against a current of underlying anger, and disrespect.

A couple of things jumped out at me (and I could be wrong):
You don't seem to have much of a plan.  She seems to dictate the weekend schedule.  Change that, and let her know.  This weekend we're doing xyz (fun, or highly necessary things).

Communicate the plans, and goals so that you're both on the same page.

Stop enabling her bad behaviors.  She doesn't work, or drive, so if she wants a pack of cigarettes she needs to find enough change in the couch cushions, and walk her ass to the store to get them.  There will be a lot of push back from her on this. 

Being a service tech makes it tough to always have a plan (my H was one), so in situations where you can't plan then setting up a protocol is a good option.  Hospitals can't plan what's going to happen, so they have lots, and lots of protocols for different scenarios so they can handle situations as they arise.  Everyone knows the protocol, and can act accordingly.

A protocol for an on-call night would be something like you tell her not to expect you home, and you grab dinner where you can.  From there she knows she's handling dinner, and bedtime by herself.  If you're home earlier then it's a pleasant surprise.

Have you watched Nice Card, Mean Card?  They're excellent, and I think they'd be very helpful to you.

The weekend pLan is definitely something to work on,  though I will admit it usually amounts to leaving the house around 11, going out for a bite to eat, then heading to BJ'S (wholesale club), then depending on if we bought refrigerated items,  go home and put those away or go directly to the grocery store for all other things. Then by the time we get home it's time for my son's nap  and then when he wakes up I run him around in the backyard for an hour or more/ try to get some things done while watching him run around like a maniac. Then it's dinner time and bath time and trying to get him to wind down for the night, then I brush his teeth and read him a bedtime story.  Then I wait on the couch listening for the pitter-patter of little feet taking hot-wheels out of the toy basket.  (I have a hard time not cracking up when I abruptly open his door,  he looks at me like a deer in headlights,  and RUNS and dive-bombs back into bed without saying a word)

Sunday is cleaning,  mowing the lawn, going to the produce market and the grocery store if we didn't make it the day before,  and trying to go do something fun with my son. 

Throw in being on call for 2 weeks straight, then being off -call for 2 weeks straight,  and it can be difficult just to get the shopping done.

I've thought about asling my mom to be a taxi driver , but I can't stand the thought of enabling this behavior any further. It shouldn't take 3 adults to run a fucking household with 1 child. 

I've watched nice card /mean card,  but again,  was originally hoping to find a mean card that wouldn't come off as so. .. mean.  I think I'm ready to start cracking the whip now and just calmly and matter-of-factly explain to her that if she wants to not feel like a prisoner in her own home,  she's going to have to get behind the wheel. 

MrsB

 It seems to me that your wife has a huge amount of anxiety. I used to suffer with GAD, and I couldn't face driving when I first met DH (granted I had been in a bad car accident in high school , and we lived in downtown Chicago, but still). He was incredibly patient with me, and together with some of our mutual friends I got up the courage to drive. He had to sit in the passengers seat and gently prompt me. I remember frequently pulling over and telling him I couldn't go on. He would patiently take over and was never cross with me. Now, I'm totally comfortable navigating the city, including rush hour in the loop. I can tell you that there's no way I could have learned how to drive in the city if I thought he was angry with me about it. 
That aside, you seem to really dislike your wife. Do you love her at all? Your posts are some of the most contemptuous I've ever read on this forum. Honestly, you don't seem to care about her in any way shape or form. So, my question is, what exactly could she do to make you care for her? Drive, quit smoking, never complain about anything again?

frillyfun

Right now you're supporting your wife, and your Mom.  They can do the darn grocery shopping without you.  

This is kind of an evil plan, but maybe if you make them rely on each other instead of you they'll both be a little more motivated to get their shit together.

All you can do is draw the boundaries for yourself, and come up with a cool plan for Saturday's so there's a reward for good behavior.

Scarlet

This is a tough one.  The trouble is that the two of you met in your early 20s and her early 30s.  Neither of you were functional adults.  You married and made a baby.  Now you're becoming reasonably functional and she is not.

Well, the truth is she just may never become a functional adult.  Something is deeply wrong with a 32 year old woman who is seriously dating a 22 year old man.  For that matter, there is something deeply wrong with a 22 year old man who is seriously dating a 32 year old woman.  It's just that the young man's changes of getting it together later on, are a lot better.  

You have to become a "got your shit together" kind of guy no matter what she does.  That's really the key to it all - your emotions and actions cannot be dependent upon her.  Metaphorically, you build a boat and sail it down your river of choice, and she either comes along or not.

How's your fitness level?  How's your diet?  How's your porn use?  In your triage you mentioned some pretty significant sexual dysfunction.  Has that resolved?  Are you sure? 

HildaCorners

I mentioned not driving in your other thread. Here I'm mentioning something different.

I was a SAH mom in perpetuity until my last divorce. I did a ton of work around the house / with the kids, but since my ex wasn't there, he didn't know how hard I worked. [I'm not saying here and below that your wife works hard ... she should be, but I have no way of knowing.]

Every so often, when my ex got particularly bitchy about "you just sit around and do nothing," I'd email him my daily schedules and accomplishments for a week. I listed everything that could count in his mind as work, in detail:

noon: pick up kid from preschool. Make lunches
1:00: put on <media entertainment> for kids, pay bills and balance accounts
2:00: kids play in back yard, I do light gardening
3:00: kid #1 dance class. I do grocery shopping while they're in class
4:30: home, dinner prep & kitchen cleanup
etc.

I only did this for one week every year or so, as it took a lot of time to prepare! But it did reassure my husband that I wasn't sitting around playing games while he slaved away at work.

I suggest you ask your wife to do something similar. On Sunday, ask her what she plans to do the next week. Then ask her every evening what she did, possibly reminding her of some things. It's important to sound like a Captain, but not like a drill officer.

In my opinion, an at-home, not otherwise employed person should be doing roughly 8 hours a day, 5 days a week of work. This work includes kid-wrangling, cleaning, cooking, errands, household accounting, outside work, possibly home maintenance and car tasks. And once the kids are in school, the parent should add something more: volunteer work, a part time job for pay, a serious hobby/craft ... they need to be *doing* something, not just sitting around.