How to shut down the stay-at-home-princess without being perceived as a total dick

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  • SchaeferSchaefer FloridaMember Posts: 94
    MrsB said:
    Schaefer said:
    MrsB said:
    Dude, you lack emotional boundaries. Trust me, if your wife is pissy, it doesn't matter, it really doesn't. In general, men care way too much about their wives' moods. Honestly, I don't care one whit about my husband's moods, even if he's cranky because of something I've done (obviously I'll apologize).  I care very much about his overall emotional well being, but not his moods. And trust me, the man can be a total grouch. When he's pissy, I just tease him, usually say something overtly sexual like "poor cranky man, do you need to vent your frustrations on me?" And then ignore his crankiness for the rest of the day. I have strong emotional boundaries, meaning, I'm happy and it doesn't matter much if other people are crabby. It took me a long time to get there though.
    The problem with having weak emotional boundaries is that 
    1) Your happiness is at the mercy of other people's moods, which you have zero control over
    2) your wife senses that she has too much power over you and it makes her anxious. To her lizard brain, if you are weak in HER presence, you will be weak in the face of real adversity.
    3) Because you are emotionally overstimulated, you actually lose the ability to tell the difference between flighty moods and real emotional distress. In other words, you will not be emotionally supportive when you should be and you will end up with a lot of critical moments of neglect. 
    4) It puts too much pressure on your spouse to be at emotional equilibrium and they will simply shut down completely and eventually walk away from the marriage.

    I disagree that I'm allowing her moods to affect me.  I'm simply typing reactions that she has to my behaviors. I'm fine if she wants to sulk in the bedroom.  I'll go with my son and jump around on bouncy houses any day of the week!

    I will say that my reactions have become increasingly emotionally numb, and it very well could turn into CMNs if I'm not careful. I am actively working towards improving my unproductive reactions to her and at the same time holding back a humongous latent desire to give her a "come to Jesus" speech spewing platitudes about consequences of actions,  being a functioning adult, and that yes, life is neither easy nor fair,  so get over it. At times,  it can take up a fair amount of brain power. 

    This forum is my sounding board, it's the spout of my boiling tea kettle for a brain,  it's MY come to Jesus speech, my kick in the nuts so that EYE start acting like the man I want to be. I apologize if I'm giving you more chaff than wheat at times. 

    I'm sorry my friend but there is no way this is true. People with strong boundaries, emotional or otherwise, don't feel resentment, don't care if people complain and only do the things that they think are worth their time. They don't cart their wives around and bitch about it, and they don't clean the house and bitch about it.
    A suggestion I have for you is to write down exactly what you think you should be doing for your family and only do that. Not what your mom wants, not what your wife wants, and not what society thinks you should do. Write down exactly what you think would be an equitable division of labor. Be as specific as possible.
    Oh,  I definitely have a boundary problem,  but I was commenting that I'm not letting her mood dictate mine in my day to day life. When she goes and sulks in the bedroom,  I just go and take my son to the park, or hang out in the living room, or watch TV with her in bed while she's sulking. 

    I've recently been not giving in to her tantrums,  but over-correcting myself and steering too far into the all work and no play zone.

    I think I'll draw up that list of responsibilities tonight.
    frillyfunHusband3point0
  • thisisjenthisisjen Silver Member Posts: 1,164
    edited June 8
    Deleted.  non contributory

     

  • codename_duchesscodename_duchess AustraliaSilver Member Posts: 222
    On the subject of your wife/mother getting offended about something that you say;
    KickboxerMiddleMan
  • SchaeferSchaefer FloridaMember Posts: 94
    On the subject of your wife/mother getting offended about something that you say;
    Yes,  the "I'm offended tactic has never really worked on me in the wild, but I used to allow my mom's reactions dictate my behaviors because she would turn it into an "everyone's abandoning me!" Thing.

    Funny story about a co-worker who would pull the "I'm offended and I'm going to overreact to everything so I get my way. " card

    At the grocery store, we provided free coffee for customers to drink. Because of the sometimes goofy way they did accounting, we would use the "on sale" coffee for the week. We were in a new,  low volume store that was still not making money. 

    I notice the sale coffee disappearing, to the point that we were OUT of the specific flavor.  And I see a pile of it on the customer service counter being "transferred" to become free coffee. 

    Me- hey, we can't use that coffee, it's empty on the shelf.  You're going to have to use the store brand. 

    Her- we're supposed to use the sale coffee! 

    Me - look, I can't justify giving away coffee that I'm supposed to sell. Are you crazy? 

    Her - ARE YOU CALLING ME CRAZY!?!

    me - no,  I asked if you were crazy. 

    Her - (rabble rabble rabble) well its already been rung up! 

    Me - Not my problem.  (Takes coffee and returns it to the shelf)

    Oh, how wonderful it was for her to stop talking to me for several months. 
    AngelineScarletShepard
  • SchaeferSchaefer FloridaMember Posts: 94
    edited June 9
    Conflict......


    Me - (Family friend) just texted asking me if we're going up there this weekend, I told her no, that I was swapping calls with (coworker) so that I can be off for when (my brother) comes down, and said we'll try for the weekend of the 25th.

    Her - Fantastic.....

    Me - Yup. (walks out of bedroom)

    Her - (comes and gets me from the living room) Why do you hate me SO much? I've been asking for a break since OCTOBER, we've been on 1 date night, I have (our son) every day and we don't go anywhere! All you do is work and when you come home you do projects! I feel like all I am is a maid and babysitter!

    Me - I don't hate you. I spend a lot of time on the weekend driving us around on errands and doing chores around the house, I'm spread way too thin in that respect. I can't reasonably be the sole provider of income, driver, clean the house AND take everyone out on fun day trips.

    Her - that's our ONLY time together, running errands on the weekend. You haven't even been helping out in the last few weeks, anyways! 


    Me - You mention that I work too much right now, we can't even reasonably afford health insurance on my current income, which, in reality means I'm going to have to find a new job and work some more hours. Right now we also have a large hospital bill to pay down, which we'd also be paying in full, even with health insurance.

    Her - Whatever, just forget about it. Hopefully it turns out to be cancer and we just won't do anything about it

    Me- No. Whatever it takes, we'll do.

    Her- Whatever.



    Her arguments were riddled with exaggerations as far as me constantly doing projects and not helping, but I can't change her mind about how she perceives reality, so I didn't try. She's also just started her cycle, so I imagine this is a bit exaggerated, but at the same time it's always a very similar argument style from her. "You obviously hate me/don't care about me, hopefully I just die". I am emotionally numb to these outcries at this point, which is not helping me in the least. I decided to plow through and not rescind my declaration of taking calls this weekend to better benefit everyone concerning scheduling and the budget.

    Also; I specifically avoided saying things like "if you were able to drive" or "because you don't drive/do more housework during the week" etc. I just stated that I can't keep doing everything I'm doing and still be expected to be the sole provider of fun, too. 

    Yeah, maybe this interaction was flavored with weak sauce, but I did keep my calm and don't think I got pulled into her frame too badly. I think it was overall a step forward, if only for having just enough of a set to stand up (okay... sit up? Kneel?) and state my case, rather than just stand in silence and letting her talk like normal. 

    I think I went into unnecessarily detail concerning the health insurance. I should have just left it as "we have a large hospital bill to pay down."



    ETA:

    I MUST channel the old me who took back the damn coffee! What am I, crazy?!
  • SchaeferSchaefer FloridaMember Posts: 94
    She was refusing to look at/speak to me this morning. As I said goodbye to my son I went over to kiss her goodbye, and instead of the normal stiff lips I get when she's mad,  she pulled away completely. I'm un-phased by it,  and just pull back and say "see you later" and head out the door.  

    My question is: do I continue to attempt the hello/goodbye kisses as a "your bad mood doesn't phase me and I will continue to act normally" or would that just be rewarding bad behavior?  I can't help but feel pulling back would be a huge mistake at this point RC-wise. 

    Also;  concerning if she brings the subject of the argument up again, I was thinking that an appropriate response would be: " while I realize you're upset over this,  discussing it further without offering solutions is unproductive,  so unless you have something constructive to say,  this discussion is over."

    Would that be too weak? Putting too much on her?  She is, after all,  going to have to make a decision on the double-bind, I can't do it for her. 
    AngelineSallyMander
  • MrGrimmMrGrimm Silver Member Posts: 971
    That's a good question that I always struggle with myself.  When my wife gets in those kids of moods, I'll pull away, but then it just makes her pull away further and makes things much worse. 
  • AngelineAngeline planting seedsCategory Moderator** Posts: 14,501
    @Schaefer, I was agreeing with both your plans. Didn't see the question at the end until just now.
    "Speak your truth." - Scarlet
    Remember to play!
    Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
    Be married, until you are not.

    Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
  • frillyfunfrillyfun East PodunkGold Women Posts: 3,386
    edited June 9
    I wouldn't knock myself out to kiss someone who isn't acting very kissable.  
    I use a template when trying to get a new behavior (grocery shopping during the week in your case):
    Acknowledge the way they're feeling
    Give them one thing to fix
    Show appreciation when they do the thing

    "I realize you're frustrated.  Why don't you and my Mom go shopping this week?  That will free up a lot of our Saturday so we can do something fun"

    Don't talk down to her, but don't expect her to know how to act right either.  She sounds like she's starting from square one with reasonable grownup stuff.  You're probably going to have to get specific.
    forestleafBeatriceWinter
  • missesnesbitmissesnesbit californiaMember Posts: 241
    It's pretty clear that your wife needs a driver's license, but that will take some time. Until then, you might want to look into Amazon fresh to save you the trips to the grocery store on the weekend. I just recently started using it, and It's a total game changer. Amazon prime members spend and extra $4 a month, and you can order all of your groceries online and have them show up at your door the same or next day.  So far everything has been packaged well and all of the produce has been really good. I'm spending just about as much as I do in the grocery store, and alot of the items are even cheaper.... I also like that I can easily know exactly how much I'm spending and weed through the stuff I may not actually need to be exactly on budget.

    Your wife is telling you she wants to spend more time with you. She's looking for some positive energy. I think it would do you both some good if you captain up on the weekends and find a way to make positive family time a priority. And if it's true you haven't been on a date since October, that would be a really easy monkey for you. You're mom lives with you, and a picnic in the park, or an easy hike can do wonders. 

    Your wife isn't going about it well, but you've trained her to think you accept bad behavior, so that will take some time to fix. 

    I relate to your wife in a lot of ways. My marriage looked very similar to yours a couple of years ago, I had a nice guy husband, and I was seriously handicapping myself in a lot of ways and I didn't even realize it. I blamed him for all of my unhappiness, and he let me.... Until one day he didn't. My husband didn't have the benefit of mmsl, so we went through a lot of hell before I found this place. Things can get better though.... I promise you that.  Drop some of the resentment, focus on running your map. And over time you'll see positive changes. 

    Schaefer
  • SchaeferSchaefer FloridaMember Posts: 94
    Is she right that you're not taking her out, working lots of hours and then always doing projects during the limited timeframes when you are at home? If so, then you're starving her of dopamine. If you're sensing that she's turning bat shit crazy it's because you're driving her there. 
    We typically will integrate doing something when we go out grocery shopping.  We go out to eat and take my son to a park for a little bit,  then go to one store before we head home for his nap. Then he gets up and we head to the second store to finish our shopping,  come home and run around in the back yard with my son and dogs,  while she (albeit understandably) plants herself in front of the ipad and doesn't play with the family. Then it becomes time for my son's dinner and bath, then dinner for the adults. 

    The constantly doing projects comment is mostly BS, because I will typically do project work,  if at all possible,  when my son's asleep and my wife is watching tv at night with her heating pad. She also complains that I don't get enough things done,  so it's another double bind I've  perpetuated. 

    This weekend we had plenty of time to actuallly go out and do something,  but she decided to stay home while I took my son out. I had inconveniently timed service calls, yes,  but the challenge was not insurmountable. 

    My "crazy hours" typically amount to 45-50 per week. By no means unreasonable. Being on-call for  2-weeks on,  2 weeks off is annoying,  though. 

    At this time, the easiest variable that can be changed would be to shift grocery shopping/ cleaning to during the weekdays, as me switching jobs would not likely come with a net decrease in hours,  but probably less being on call. 

    I think another issue is that what she seems to like doing is spending money.  Going to the beach is boring to her.  Going to the bar next to the beach and drinking $9 vodka tonics is fun. Our last date night we went out to dinner, some drinks and a movie. I was in over $100 by the end of the night. 

    In this respect,  I need to just keep pushing towards doing inexpensive/free things and she can come along or not. Unfortunately for her,  we are also going to be cutting out our weekend lunches out. Picnics at the park with homemade sandwiches,  that kind of thing. 


    CartB4Horse
  • Pen_and_SwordPen_and_Sword USASilver Member Posts: 469
    Just one observation on one small point - the biggest difference between going to the beach, and going to the beach bar for vodka tonics, is that the beach rarely changes much. It's soothing, restful, or you can work hard (physically) to play in the surf. But it's always more or less the same.

    At the bar, for minimal effort, you have an endlessly-repeatable spark of something new (a new tonic), the action of consumption, and then the anticipation of picking the next one. 

    It looks completely wasteful and negative, but our modern versions of consumption are just optimized for the hunter-gatherer-NOVELTY impulses. We get shots of dopamine when new things come into our possession. We get dopamine when we eat or drink. We get dopamine when anticipating/preparing for something new. A trip to the bar to spend money delivers all those things, with all of the work comfortably displaced to another time. Kind of like porn. It's not truly positive, but you can see why it feels really good.

    You might want to consider what free things you can do together that are new, exciting, scary, or include variety. You might have to compromise in both directions, ie activities that are not completely free, but also require a bit of effort. If you're in a rural area and can plan/save ahead, I'm thinking something like a country fair could work?
    "James Bond doesn't have bad days."  - Tennee
    "The goal is to turn women on, NOT sex. If you become good at turning women on, sex can be assumed." - Tanooki
    Triage: http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/13564/so-this-is-me
    M.A.P. - http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/13574/pen-and-swords-map
    AngelinefrillyfunMr_SharpTiger_Lily
  • Husband3point0Husband3point0 Gold Men Posts: 3,294
    We might be in violent agreement at the end of this. But, I'll clarify. 

    I think she has bug issues. Huge. However, I think you do yourself little to no favors by not focusing heavily on trying to help her drag herself out of the funk. You exacerbate her issues if you don't give her something positive to respond to. 

    If one spouse is stuck in a ditch, the other one providing boatloads of inertia doesn't help matters. That's all I'm saying. 
    frillyfunAngelineCartB4Horseforestleaf
  • SchaeferSchaefer FloridaMember Posts: 94
    We might be in violent agreement at the end of this. But, I'll clarify. 

    I think she has bug issues. Huge. However, I think you do yourself little to no favors by not focusing heavily on trying to help her drag herself out of the funk. You exacerbate her issues if you don't give her something positive to respond to. 

    If one spouse is stuck in a ditch, the other one providing boatloads of inertia doesn't help matters. That's all I'm saying. 
    Yes,  and my failure to launch has been mainly from being unable to formulate a way to respond to her that promotes incremental but gradual improvements.  

    She's the frog I'm trying to cook,  but my only perceived options have been turning the burner to 11 and risk escape, or to not have frog legs and keep it as a pet. 

    You've all helped me in finding a way to systematically and reasonably turn up the heat, little by little. Right now I'm up to - "Luke warm" I've committed to eating the frog legs and to do what it takes to get there. 
  • SchaeferSchaefer FloridaMember Posts: 94
    Just one observation on one small point - the biggest difference between going to the beach, and going to the beach bar for vodka tonics, is that the beach rarely changes much. It's soothing, restful, or you can work hard (physically) to play in the surf. But it's always more or less the same.

    At the bar, for minimal effort, you have an endlessly-repeatable spark of something new (a new tonic), the action of consumption, and then the anticipation of picking the next one. 

    It looks completely wasteful and negative, but our modern versions of consumption are just optimized for the hunter-gatherer-NOVELTY impulses. We get shots of dopamine when new things come into our possession. We get dopamine when we eat or drink. We get dopamine when anticipating/preparing for something new. A trip to the bar to spend money delivers all those things, with all of the work comfortably displaced to another time. Kind of like porn. It's not truly positive, but you can see why it feels really good.

    You might want to consider what free things you can do together that are new, exciting, scary, or include variety. You might have to compromise in both directions, ie activities that are not completely free, but also require a bit of effort. If you're in a rural area and can plan/save ahead, I'm thinking something like a country fair could work?
    You're absolutely right about consumption being a driving force in combating what I consider to be a chronic lack on stimulation in life.  Humans used to be too busy running from sabre -tooth tigers and looking for food to be worried about free time.

    Plus; being able to spend money on stuff/experiences makes your perception of wealth,  and consequently self -worth,  much higher. You have such an abundance of resources that you can afford to buy an umbrella drink and stay in a nicer hotel room than you need to. 

    Oh,  and we do go to the fairs and events in town,  but typically anywhere we go she ends up playing on her phone while drinking $5 bud lights instead of hanging out with me and our son. Another thing I need to work on is to demand that she puts the phone down and participates. 
    Pen_and_Sword
  • SchaeferSchaefer FloridaMember Posts: 94
    Heating pad in Florida, eh??

    I caution you not to over-obsess about the "my spouse is physically broken and needs to be fixed" or think this is a substitute for self improvement, but you've now listed about 7 things that fall under the umbrella of related-enough-to-warrant-ruling-out-medical.

    So keep a high priority on getting medical insurance and encouraging W to quit smoking, eat healthy, and exercise.  And as you continue to MAP, gain leverage, and set healthy boundaries and expectations, understand that you may get mileage/traction out of having her symptoms looked at collectively by a good doctor.

    http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/02/10-reasons-its-endocrine-maybe-instead-of-batshit-crazy/
    It is terrifying how many of those symptoms describe my wife; However, I have to get my act together and deal with her poor behavior/attitude effectively and consistently. Only then can I reasonably say " okay, honey, you need to go see a doctor" 
    [Deleted User]KattfrillyfunAngeline
  • SchaeferSchaefer FloridaMember Posts: 94
    I may have blown up my marriage tonight.

    Yesterday was our 5 year anniversary. I didn't get her anything and didn't even tell her "happy anniversary" she had been giving me the silent treatment all day. She got me a hammer with "building a life together since 2011" engraved on it. 

    We were in the path of hurricane Matthew last week, so I had been scrambling since Tuesday to purchase and install shutters on our windows and doors. On Thursday morning - the forecast was for the hurricane to possibly make landfall within 30 miles of our house at about 3pm, so we chose to go North to my brother's apartment that's "hurricane ready" we packed up the two dogs,  the cat,  my son,  and drove off. My mom came, too, of course. 

    My mom just slept most of the time, but apparently on Friday during one of their many cigarette breaks,  my mom was getting "bitchy" and asking my wife why we weren't leaving that same day (the storm had mostly passed,  but it was still windy/rainy.) Because she had to be at work by 1pm on Saturday. 

    My brother gets home from work at about 11pm, 12 pack in hand. Everybody else is sleeping/trying to sleep. I couldn't sleep so I joined him on the porch and had a beer. My wife decided to come along as well. I decided to go back to bed at about 3pm and left them to chat, able to hear just about every word they said through the sliding glass door. One of the things they talked about was my mom and all the things about her that annoy my wife. 

    Wife crawls back into the sofa-bed at maybe 6-7am, and my mom gets up shortly after,  discovering our cat pooped all over the apartment,  so she not so quietly cleaned it up (its a small apartment and we were sleeping in the living room) and made herself coffee. Wife was livid - whisper yelling at me (our son sleeping between us) that my mother is trying to wake us up by being extra loud, acting like a 3 year old,  etc. 

    Now - I agree that it was highly inconsiderate,  but I honestly believe it's because my mom is a moron and doesn't think before she does things. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't have "intent" to annoy us, but I also wouldn't put it past her, honestly. I chalked it up to everyone being couped up in close quarters and that we chose to stay in those close quarters. My son wasn't awakened, so I got over it. 

    My wife tells me that we're not leaving early to cater to my mom,  that she's going to get ready extra slow, etc. This doesn't line up with my goals of getting on the road soon so that I can get the house all put back together and getting my son home in time for lunch and. A nap - I stare blankly at her after she tells me this and get up to use the bathroom. I feed my son breakfast and start getting ready to go to my wife's disappointment. She throws a mini tantrum and tells me I need to grow a pair when it comes to my mom. I tell her (fully knowing it doesn't matter in her mind) that no,  we're leaving because I have a lot of stuff to do when we got home, and told her to cut the shit. She just sat around while I got everything packed. Eventually I hear her talking to my mom about something,  BSing and laughing. I can't help but think to myself "Is my wife psycho!?"

    So we get on the road and silently drive the 2 hour journey home. I un-board up the front door, turn on all the major appliances again (we amazingly didn't lose power) and get to work repairing the sections of fence that blew down. She asks me to come inside and watch him for about an hour before his nap time - she's about to fall asleep. I go ahead and acquiesce, even though it was her own choice to stay up so late. I was getting tired anyway and needed a break.

    After putting my son down for his nap, I continued to work outside basically until close to sunset and then came back in to hang out with my son until his bedtime. Wife and I had barely spoken and she went to sleep shortly before my son went to bed. 

    The next morning (our anniversary) when she wakes up she starts cleaning the house with a look on her face that says (you're a fucking jerk and I don't even want to look at you). I choose to ignore this and just continue to play with my son. I feed him lunch, put him down for a nap,  and sit down on the couch to get on my laptop. Wife comes out from the bedroom and brings me the hammer and says "happy anniversary" while walking by with the same look of disdain as earlier. I simply respond "Thanks, happy anniversary" and continued doing what I was doing. 

    I hung out with my son the rest of the day. She came out of the room later telling me that I just HAD to watch the presidential debate that was going on because it was just such a train wreck. Her tone was as if the previous 24 hours hadn't occurred. I tell her " ok" and go back to what I was doing. We go to bed again silent. 

    Today she sends me an email stating how she's losing her mind with my mom's tantrums and inconsiderate-ness and how I'm unwilling to do anything about it, (more on this dynamic later), she's been stressed out about the hurricane, and that she was really looking forward to celebrating our anniversary but now it crashed and burned. 


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