If she is Borderline Personality Disorder, then nothing is going to improve her behavior except long-term psychotherapy (at least a year). You should still Map because it's important to be awesome--just know that if you are correct in your assessment of your wife, it will have little impact on your wife's behaviors.
I think she's at the bitch eating crackers phase with you. There's no defending yourself, and there's no pleasing her. You could win the lottery and she'd still find something to bitch about.
I've been at that point with my H, and all you can really do is run your MAP, and let it blow over.
In the mean time stop walking on eggshells, and stop trying to please her because she twists, and complains about everything.
Keep setting boundaries, and demanding reasonable behavior.
I'd also find out how much money is missing, and file a police report if necessary.
@frillyfun Yousaying there's a chance this can be salvaged with some dedicated MAPing.
My main Red is assertiveness. I still feel like most of what I do is to try to avoid her disapproval/anger.
Consequently, I am a chore whore and keep asking her what she wants instead of telling her what *I* want. However, recent attempts to assert myself and wriggle out from under her thumb have resulted in tantrums and passive aggression from her. I have been riding them out recently and not letting it get under my skin. Which is good.
But it looks like that has made her resort to underhand means of undermining me, like accusing me of theft. That, I'm afraid to say, has got under my skin and I'm not sure how it's going to play out.
I don't know if you can salvage this...none of us do. If she truly has borderline personality disorder you're fighting a very uphill battle. As in uphill both ways in waist deep snow.
I can say that I've been *that* level of pissed at my H, and have had it pass to the point where we could actually talk about things. I feel like I had pretty legitimate reasons (my H is a lazy bear). His frame is rock solid, and always has been. He put up a boundary that we needed to speak to each other calmly, and rationally. We had to learn a lot of productive ways of working with each other. It took a lot of time, and a lot of work, but we're ok.
I did have very strong leverage (similar to yours), and it came to a point where I presented him with legal separation papers in order for him to address the low-t medical issues that were dragging us down. It was only then that we could start making real progress.
So, yes MAP. MAP, MAP, MAP, and MAP some more. Step up, be a strong Captain, and know that in this phase, while she's in this state that you can't please her. Know what you want, and do what you think is right. No amount of chores will effect the change you're after.
Before you have that divorce conversation please, please, please talk to Athol. I can't stress the need for professional help enough. I had a call with Serenity, and that marked a major turning point for us. She's decided to weaponize your child, so you also need a lawyer, and perhaps the Embassy so you know where you stand, and what your leverage is.
TL;DR Know what you want Find out what your leverage is
She was just about to go to bed when I got back at 9pm. I saw she had set up a TV in our son's room and it was on while our son had clearly fallen asleep in front of it as she was getting ready to climb into bed beside him.
It's really sad that our son's room is her cave where she hides away these days. And she's putting little creature comforts like the TV in this small room so that she doesn't have to come out so much.
@frillyfun How do I go about setting up a consultation with AK? How much is that going to cost? Then I need to figure out if/how I'm going to explain that to the Mrs.
My wife and I are supposed to be going to one of her friends' (whom I don't know very well, but she's close to) baby shower this afternoon. It's for couples, not just the ladies.
I don't want to go, not only because I'm not a big fan of baby showers, but also because I don't think it's appropriate to go out socially with her after the way she has been lately. I'll tell her to go while I look after the little one.
An hour of Athol's time is $149, and it's well worth it. Calls are via Skype, so I'd recommend going somewhere you have privacy, and a good web connection.
Don't tell your wife if you can avoid it.
Right now you're her "bitch eating crackers"- BEC. I wish there was a more scientific term for it, but I've never seen one. It's a state where they have a ton of stress hormones flooding their bodies, and every single thing you do is a -1. Something as simple as eating crackers, or even breathing adds fuel to their anger.
Essentially she's turned into a rattle snake, or a grizzly bear. All you can do is retreat to a safe distance, and maybe get some wine, and cheese to go with your crackers.
It's actually a bit of a gift. Their frame is BSC, so a "normal" person can't get sucked in. You can't please them, so you do whatever you need/want to do until it blows over. If they're going to be pissed anyway you may as well do whatever makes you happy.
The two worst things you can do when she's in this state are: 1) Try to placate her. Anything you do can, and will be bitched about. She'll see it as weakness, and add a bunch of reasons to her mental list of things that make you an unfit Captain. 2) JADE- Justify, argue, defend, explain http://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0
The only way you get out of this is to have your own strong frame, and a clear plan about what you want to do. Wake up everyday, and mindfully attack your chosen monkeys.
If she's still on about missing money then it needs to be addressed seriously. Ask her how much is missing, and whether or not she thinks the police need to be called. She's letting you know about a security issue, and as Captain it's on you to address that issue. Otherwise- what are your Monkeys this week (other than the call to Athol, and a lawyer)?
6
BlackwulfLeading the pack. Silver MemberPosts: 1,782
It is not just the BEC, (i've been through that) it is the tactic of walking on eggshells. Once the eggshell trap stops working the BSC comes out. Be careful and stay safe.
I wouldn't go to the shower. I wouldn't put on a fake face.
Are all her relationships unstable or just with you?
Well, she doesn't have many friends and those she does she rarely sees, but then again, I don't think that's too out of the ordinary as her friends have busy lives with jobs and families. She communicates daily, almost hourly by Whatsapp, with one of her sisters (older) who lives half a mile from us. It's a very close relationship; for example, if we drive for an hour or so, my wife will immediately call her sister on arrival to say we've arrived safely. Being Mexican, her family really is the center of her world.
I never hear about ex boyfriends except whenever I try to assert myself when she says that her exes never treated her with such disrespect. To which I always feel like replying, "yeah, and where are they now?"
So she's gone off to her friend's baby shower with our son, with no discussion by either of us as to whether or not I was going.
She has continued the grumpiness this morning. Twice this morning she was silent when I asked her a question, and, when I asked again, she replied "Who are you talking to?", when clearly I was talking to her and not the toddler. She did that twice. I could have picked an argument by saying, "Don't be so rude!", but that would have resulted in "No-you're-the-rude-one" tennis and she was only doing it to get a rise out of me, so I refused to give her the pleasure and merely replied "I'm talking to you, obviously" in a non-offended tone. She's the one begging for confrontation. If she wants to address an issue, she can do it in a non-PA way.
As they left I cheerily wished them a fun time and reminded my wife that today is the one Saturday per month that our car is not allowed on the roads (as per Mexico City's anti-pollution regulations).
But she took the car anyway. She will most likely get stopped by the police and face either the prospect of the car being impounded or, alternatively she'll bribe the cop with 50 dollars equivalent in cash, which seems to be the going rate. Yes she has cash, I gave her a good amount this morning. If she gets fined/pays a bribe, I'll dock it from the next time I give her money.
Well, I'm afraid that finances won't stretch to the chat with AK, much as I would have liked to.
Besides, I'm feeling less "panic stations" about my situation right now. She's still not talking to me except for really essential communication and, to be frank, that suits me just fine. It means I'm not getting told what to do all the time and it's not like anybody's suffering as a result.
In fact I'm feeling less stressed, somewhat liberated and dare I say it happy. She, on the other hand, is walking around with a big cloud over her head and our 2y10m boy is even picking up on it. "Mummy's grumpy!", he says.
I have monkeys for the week to attack: I have been in touch with an attorney, so I need to have a meeting with him to explore my options. I must set up a budget for the family. I need to keep up my improvements to my frame maintenance. I'm doing very well staying positive in the face of her ladyship's obvious passive aggressive hostility. I need to find some sort of thing or project to lead and drive to show that I have a purpose as the family head. This will be difficult for me. I am going to go through a CBT workbook I have got on Assertiveness. I think that may really help in all my life. I want to join a running club and bond with people who share my passion and joy in that.
If I achieve just some of the above in the next 7 days, I will consider that a step forward and upward. And I don't give a hoot what she thinks, as I'm doing it for me.
So, it's been two or three weeks since my last post when I said I had a few monkeys to attack.
I said: "I have been in touch with an attorney, so I need to have a meeting with him to explore my options." I never got to that meeting as things were starting to thaw with my wife. She actually started to talk to me and not always with a tone of contempt in her voice. So I put ideas of divorce on hold. Still, I think I should at least find out what the options are - even if it will be a major hassle doing this without Mrs D knowing, and I think she shouldn't know, for now at least.
"I must set up a budget for the family." Yay! Small, nay big! victory for me. I managed to wrestle back control of MY money and have set up a budget for the family. However the budget displayed low value as I allocated a little more for her in terms of discretionary spending. But, honestly, a woman's haircut does cost a lot more than mine...
"I need to keep up my improvements to my frame maintenance. I'm doing very well staying positive in the face of her ladyship's obvious passive aggressive hostility." I was doing much better at this, maintaining a cheery disposition, even when she was being a grumpy cow, giving me the silent treatment and treating me like someone she hates.
"I need to find some sort of thing or project to lead and drive to show that I have a purpose as the family head. This will be difficult for me." This is part victory, part failure. I am buying a new car for the family as the old car is, well, getting old and with the current anti-pollution laws in Mexico City, has to spend 8 days a month off the roads. The new car will be allowed on the roads 24/7/365, so it's much more practical. However the car will be essentially for her, as I live close to work and go by bicycle to keep fit. She wanted a big SUV, but that was way out of our budget. She's getting a midsize car that meant I had to spend the money I had allocated to fly home to the UK to visit my family on the deposit and, frankly, the monthly payments are going to mean that we're living very frugally for the next 3 years. There are elements of DHV in what I've done here, but I feel that there was quite a lot of DLV too.
"I am going to go through a CBT workbook I have got on Assertiveness. I think that may really help in all my life." Re-reading "When I say No I feel guilty" and finding it difficult to implement the strategies. It's good at telling you how to say no, but not so good at how not to feel guilty. I feel like a mean person when I stick up for myself and she makes it worse by making me feel like I'm even more mean. I shall keep at it.
"I want to join a running club and bond with people who share my passion and joy in that." I have found one, but it's so far away and at such an early hour. I really would rather not get up at 5am at the weekend.
The good thing is that I'm back at work now after a 6 week vacation. All my coworkers are devastated that the vacation is over. I am so relieved.
My wife has been sleeping in the same room as our son since he was born nearly 3 years ago. Initially it was with him in a cot to the side of the double bed in that room that my wife slept in. Then, at about 18 months, she moved him into the bed, with the cot's wall's acting as a wall to stop him falling out. I question the need for those "walls" as our son has never ever fallen out of the bed in his afternoon naps when the cot is not pulled up to the bed.
Anyway, my wife's neice in law is about to have a baby and we loaned out the cot for them to use, as the cot was only being used by use to keep blankets in these days. I went to deliver the cot and when I got back, my wife had pulled the mattress off of the double bed and stood there asking me to dismantle the bed so that she could sleep with Jr on the floor. Initially I said no, very firmly. But her emotional manipulation about the welfare of our son got under my skin and, yet again, I ended up capitulating and did what she asked. However, I told her while I was dismantling the bed that I feel it's a ridiculous situation where my wife and 3 year old kid are sleeping together on the floor. She then said, "If you're going to be rude to me, I'll be rude to you too." She took offense at the word "ridiculous". She has not said another word to me since.
I feel like a chump. Especially for the way I let her get under my skin and because I have let myself feel bad for the way she feels about me.
0
BlackwulfLeading the pack. Silver MemberPosts: 1,782
edited August 26
You do realize it is you tolerating this? That is the DLV. Nothing is going to change until you truly confront this piece of the relationship. You know it is intentional and honestly it is not all about physical attraction.
Own it as ridiculous. Your son is 3 years old. He will likely cry like an infant at this point without mommy, but he has to be weaned from that. There comes a point where it is damaging to your son.
You dismantled the marital bed so she could sleep with your son?
You're right in that I only have myself to blame.
However, no, I didn't dismantle the marital bed so she could sleep with our son. The marital bed is intact and I sleep in it alone every night. There is a wife-shaped space in it and she is welcome to use it.
I dismantled our son's bed that my wife was already sleeping in so they could sleep on the floor because she thought that would be safer now that the cot, which had been acting as a barrier to him falling out, has gone.
Comments
I've been at that point with my H, and all you can really do is run your MAP, and let it blow over.
In the mean time stop walking on eggshells, and stop trying to please her because she twists, and complains about everything.
Keep setting boundaries, and demanding reasonable behavior.
I'd also find out how much money is missing, and file a police report if necessary.
My main Red is assertiveness. I still feel like most of what I do is to try to avoid her disapproval/anger.
Consequently, I am a chore whore and keep asking her what she wants instead of telling her what *I* want. However, recent attempts to assert myself and wriggle out from under her thumb have resulted in tantrums and passive aggression from her. I have been riding them out recently and not letting it get under my skin. Which is good.
But it looks like that has made her resort to underhand means of undermining me, like accusing me of theft. That, I'm afraid to say, has got under my skin and I'm not sure how it's going to play out.
i know that was avoidant but I just needed to destress and I couldn't do that at home.
I can say that I've been *that* level of pissed at my H, and have had it pass to the point where we could actually talk about things. I feel like I had pretty legitimate reasons (my H is a lazy bear). His frame is rock solid, and always has been. He put up a boundary that we needed to speak to each other calmly, and rationally. We had to learn a lot of productive ways of working with each other. It took a lot of time, and a lot of work, but we're ok.
I did have very strong leverage (similar to yours), and it came to a point where I presented him with legal separation papers in order for him to address the low-t medical issues that were dragging us down. It was only then that we could start making real progress.
So, yes MAP. MAP, MAP, MAP, and MAP some more. Step up, be a strong Captain, and know that in this phase, while she's in this state that you can't please her. Know what you want, and do what you think is right. No amount of chores will effect the change you're after.
Before you have that divorce conversation please, please, please talk to Athol. I can't stress the need for professional help enough. I had a call with Serenity, and that marked a major turning point for us. She's decided to weaponize your child, so you also need a lawyer, and perhaps the Embassy so you know where you stand, and what your leverage is.
TL;DR
Know what you want
Find out what your leverage is
It's really sad that our son's room is her cave where she hides away these days. And she's putting little creature comforts like the TV in this small room so that she doesn't have to come out so much.
How much is that going to cost?
Then I need to figure out if/how I'm going to explain that to the Mrs.
I don't want to go, not only because I'm not a big fan of baby showers, but also because I don't think it's appropriate to go out socially with her after the way she has been lately. I'll tell her to go while I look after the little one.
http://marriedmansexlife.com/coaching-service-one-hour-call/
An hour of Athol's time is $149, and it's well worth it. Calls are via Skype, so I'd recommend going somewhere you have privacy, and a good web connection.
Don't tell your wife if you can avoid it.
Right now you're her "bitch eating crackers"- BEC. I wish there was a more scientific term for it, but I've never seen one. It's a state where they have a ton of stress hormones flooding their bodies, and every single thing you do is a -1. Something as simple as eating crackers, or even breathing adds fuel to their anger.
Essentially she's turned into a rattle snake, or a grizzly bear. All you can do is retreat to a safe distance, and maybe get some wine, and cheese to go with your crackers.
It's actually a bit of a gift. Their frame is BSC, so a "normal" person can't get sucked in. You can't please them, so you do whatever you need/want to do until it blows over. If they're going to be pissed anyway you may as well do whatever makes you happy.
The two worst things you can do when she's in this state are:
1) Try to placate her. Anything you do can, and will be bitched about. She'll see it as weakness, and add a bunch of reasons to her mental list of things that make you an unfit Captain.
2) JADE- Justify, argue, defend, explain http://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0
The only way you get out of this is to have your own strong frame, and a clear plan about what you want to do. Wake up everyday, and mindfully attack your chosen monkeys.
If she's still on about missing money then it needs to be addressed seriously. Ask her how much is missing, and whether or not she thinks the police need to be called. She's letting you know about a security issue, and as Captain it's on you to address that issue.
Otherwise- what are your Monkeys this week (other than the call to Athol, and a lawyer)?
I wouldn't go to the shower. I wouldn't put on a fake face.
She communicates daily, almost hourly by Whatsapp, with one of her sisters (older) who lives half a mile from us. It's a very close relationship; for example, if we drive for an hour or so, my wife will immediately call her sister on arrival to say we've arrived safely.
Being Mexican, her family really is the center of her world.
She has continued the grumpiness this morning. Twice this morning she was silent when I asked her a question, and, when I asked again, she replied "Who are you talking to?", when clearly I was talking to her and not the toddler. She did that twice. I could have picked an argument by saying, "Don't be so rude!", but that would have resulted in "No-you're-the-rude-one" tennis and she was only doing it to get a rise out of me, so I refused to give her the pleasure and merely replied "I'm talking to you, obviously" in a non-offended tone. She's the one begging for confrontation. If she wants to address an issue, she can do it in a non-PA way.
As they left I cheerily wished them a fun time and reminded my wife that today is the one Saturday per month that our car is not allowed on the roads (as per Mexico City's anti-pollution regulations).
But she took the car anyway. She will most likely get stopped by the police and face either the prospect of the car being impounded or, alternatively she'll bribe the cop with 50 dollars equivalent in cash, which seems to be the going rate. Yes she has cash, I gave her a good amount this morning. If she gets fined/pays a bribe, I'll dock it from the next time I give her money.
Besides, I'm feeling less "panic stations" about my situation right now. She's still not talking to me except for really essential communication and, to be frank, that suits me just fine. It means I'm not getting told what to do all the time and it's not like anybody's suffering as a result.
In fact I'm feeling less stressed, somewhat liberated and dare I say it happy. She, on the other hand, is walking around with a big cloud over her head and our 2y10m boy is even picking up on it. "Mummy's grumpy!", he says.
I have monkeys for the week to attack:
I have been in touch with an attorney, so I need to have a meeting with him to explore my options.
I must set up a budget for the family.
I need to keep up my improvements to my frame maintenance. I'm doing very well staying positive in the face of her ladyship's obvious passive aggressive hostility.
I need to find some sort of thing or project to lead and drive to show that I have a purpose as the family head. This will be difficult for me.
I am going to go through a CBT workbook I have got on Assertiveness. I think that may really help in all my life.
I want to join a running club and bond with people who share my passion and joy in that.
If I achieve just some of the above in the next 7 days, I will consider that a step forward and upward. And I don't give a hoot what she thinks, as I'm doing it for me.
I recommend "When I say No I feel Guilty" by Smith. It has some good example conversations in it.
So, it's been two or three weeks since my last post when I said I had a few monkeys to attack.
I said:
"I have been in touch with an attorney, so I need to have a meeting with him to explore my options." I never got to that meeting as things were starting to thaw with my wife. She actually started to talk to me and not always with a tone of contempt in her voice. So I put ideas of divorce on hold. Still, I think I should at least find out what the options are - even if it will be a major hassle doing this without Mrs D knowing, and I think she shouldn't know, for now at least.
"I must set up a budget for the family." Yay! Small, nay big! victory for me. I managed to wrestle back control of MY money and have set up a budget for the family. However the budget displayed low value as I allocated a little more for her in terms of discretionary spending. But, honestly, a woman's haircut does cost a lot more than mine...
"I need to keep up my improvements to my frame maintenance. I'm doing very well staying positive in the face of her ladyship's obvious passive aggressive hostility." I was doing much better at this, maintaining a cheery disposition, even when she was being a grumpy cow, giving me the silent treatment and treating me like someone she hates.
"I need to find some sort of thing or project to lead and drive to show that I have a purpose as the family head. This will be difficult for me." This is part victory, part failure. I am buying a new car for the family as the old car is, well, getting old and with the current anti-pollution laws in Mexico City, has to spend 8 days a month off the roads. The new car will be allowed on the roads 24/7/365, so it's much more practical. However the car will be essentially for her, as I live close to work and go by bicycle to keep fit. She wanted a big SUV, but that was way out of our budget. She's getting a midsize car that meant I had to spend the money I had allocated to fly home to the UK to visit my family on the deposit and, frankly, the monthly payments are going to mean that we're living very frugally for the next 3 years. There are elements of DHV in what I've done here, but I feel that there was quite a lot of DLV too.
"I am going to go through a CBT workbook I have got on Assertiveness. I think that may really help in all my life." Re-reading "When I say No I feel guilty" and finding it difficult to implement the strategies. It's good at telling you how to say no, but not so good at how not to feel guilty. I feel like a mean person when I stick up for myself and she makes it worse by making me feel like I'm even more mean. I shall keep at it.
"I want to join a running club and bond with people who share my passion and joy in that." I have found one, but it's so far away and at such an early hour. I really would rather not get up at 5am at the weekend.
The good thing is that I'm back at work now after a 6 week vacation. All my coworkers are devastated that the vacation is over. I am so relieved.
Anyway, my wife's neice in law is about to have a baby and we loaned out the cot for them to use, as the cot was only being used by use to keep blankets in these days.
I went to deliver the cot and when I got back, my wife had pulled the mattress off of the double bed and stood there asking me to dismantle the bed so that she could sleep with Jr on the floor. Initially I said no, very firmly. But her emotional manipulation about the welfare of our son got under my skin and, yet again, I ended up capitulating and did what she asked. However, I told her while I was dismantling the bed that I feel it's a ridiculous situation where my wife and 3 year old kid are sleeping together on the floor. She then said, "If you're going to be rude to me, I'll be rude to you too." She took offense at the word "ridiculous". She has not said another word to me since.
I feel like a chump. Especially for the way I let her get under my skin and because I have let myself feel bad for the way she feels about me.
You do realize it is you tolerating this? That is the DLV. Nothing is going to change until you truly confront this piece of the relationship. You know it is intentional and honestly it is not all about physical attraction.
Own it as ridiculous. Your son is 3 years old. He will likely cry like an infant at this point without mommy, but he has to be weaned from that. There comes a point where it is damaging to your son.
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
However, no, I didn't dismantle the marital bed so she could sleep with our son. The marital bed is intact and I sleep in it alone every night. There is a wife-shaped space in it and she is welcome to use it.
I dismantled our son's bed that my wife was already sleeping in so they could sleep on the floor because she thought that would be safer now that the cot, which had been acting as a barrier to him falling out, has gone.