About this site. . .
You have found an archive of the MMSL Forum, which shut down on December 27, 2016. You can continue these discussions on this forum
Categories
- 10.9K All Categories
- 23 The New Forum 101
- 8 Moments of Zen
- 915 Introduce Yourself
- 671 911 Relationship ER
- 2.7K Married Life
- 2.1K Running the MAP
- 743 1. Fitness, Food and Health
- 96 2. Money and Material Stuff
- 304 3. Displaying High Value - Men
- 728 3. Displaying High Value - Women
- 200 4. Building Relationship Comfort
- 52 5. Personality and Preferences
- 406 6. High-Energy Sex
- 513 Singles
- 45 Faith and Spirituality
- 1.3K Off Topic
Comments
And with regard to divorce I got very close earlier this year but realised I couldn't put that burden onto my children; their happiness comes before mine.
@Reborn good point about the IVF vs menopause, hadn't looked at it that way.
When I say my wife is BPD I can't diagnose her, she just has a lot of the traits, but sometimes it's evident, other times she is quite normal. In terms of MAPing it's not important anyway.
"working hard to be an excellent husband" I know what you mean - perhaps I meant "to become a better person so that I am an excellent husband".
That doesn't mean that I don't want my rewards or that I don't deserve them. I'm not expecting anything at the moment though, that comes in later phases, I will be very grateful if it doesn't get to that point.
Two questions. Should I push harder? Should I be trying at all in phase 1/2?
I told my wife I was taking her out. We looked that diary and couldn't find a single night between now and Christmas to go out. My wife then announced she is taking me out to my favourite sushi restaurant for lunch in my week off. So much for being more alpha and taking charge, she just took over. Was this some sort of test? and could I have handled it better?
Similarly with putting the kids to bed. I took charge of that a few nights ago, last night she beat me to it and put them to bed before I got a chance. I don't think this is going to be easy. Any advice?
Two questions. Should I push harder? Should I be trying at all in phase 1/2?"
First thing to remember about pushing harder is don't push when she is "red". If you feel the excuses coming on, and she's pretending to sleep then a good OI would be a slight tap on butt and a comment like "Ok, your loss. I'm going to go lift some weights before bed."
I really think you should get some kind of weight set, if you don't have one already and designate a room to lift. Mine is in my finished basement in front of a tv.
As you show better OI and get your SR higher her attraction will/should start to show. I think it's attraction that's holding her back.
As for your SR, is that number your view or your wife's view. Obviously you can't ask her what your number is.
But your view of HER sex rank does matter. You put her at 5/6 if I read that correct. A wife that refuses sex a lot or only drip feeds knocks her number down a bit. Along with her weighing more than you, either tells me she's more than a little overweight or you are too skinny.
You state shes overweight and never exercised. If she sees a change in your body with adding muscle more likely than not she may see this as a wake up sign for her to start losing weight.
When you start at phase 1 and start moving correctly through those phases, it should all start to fall into place.
And we say here, if you comes along that's great if not then you'll be in a better state of mind physically and mentally to find a woman who will fall for a fit, confident guy who's has a great job. Can you imagine going out to a social place with single hot woman hearing/seeing you talk about being a doctor.
Lastly, not to scare you or derail your MAP but are you 100% sure there is no affair going on? With your past bisexual trist, that would/could give her a reason in her mind to at least go there.
I'm not at all saying she is, I do think it's attraction based problem in your marriage but just be mindful of it.
Your wife has 1) "borderline personality tendencies" that you have actually told her about (wow--how did that convo go? Did she feel labeled or did she feel it was good feedback, or what?)
2) Bad menstrual periods, (she's at the early 40s age where it may be IUD time or uterine ablation time. My Mirena IUD eliminated my period entirely and let's just say we are all pretty thrilled about that at my house.)
3) Insomnia, and
4) "Recurrent viral infections" (by that do you mean an STD such as herpes or what?).
These are all huge HUGE medical issues that are cockblocking you guys, big time. Luckily, as you are a doctor you have the experience and professional connections to Captain really well in these areas. Though I also get the clear sense that you think she might be malingering a bit, too? Especially at bedtime?
You say you've done counseling? Was this in the U.K.? Have you tried talking with a US-based counselor, where there is much more of a "go to therapy" culture?
I'm troubled by that two-year period early in your marriage years ago where she "banned" you from ever talking about that one time you guys had threesome during which you had some gay sex with another guy in front of her and also with her. I read this as a Critical Moment of Neglect on her part. I mean, my god. That must have been incredibly hurtful to you: a subject so fraught for her she couldn't even discuss it! How painful for you.
You have nothing to feel ashamed about. You've been above board about your bisexuality since day one with her, and you have admirably gotten her prior consent before you had sex with men a few years back. Still. Let's also try to see this from the other side. I can see why these incidents are still these huge unresolved roadblocks to intimacy between you, can you see that? It's like a secret room in the proverbial house of your marriage where neither of you can go and nobody can talk about it-- but what's lurking in that room can leak out and create infestations in other rooms of the house, too, if unaddressed for too long. Such as the bedroom.
You think you're too Beta but you might also need better/more nuanced Beta and better/tighter framed Alpha combined here. In the specific context of anyone ever consentually stepping out on the marriage physically, it's going to be crucial to up the Relationship Comfort around physical touch/Tenderness and hugs and hand holding-- all of that good relationship glue kind of stuff-- letting touch say 'I love you' and 'I want to be close with you' with more physical togetherness. Baby steps! You have a long road but you have every reason to be optimistic.
My husband worked 12-14 hour days 6 days a week for a time (approximately 2 years, as I recall). Other years, he still put in 60 hours or so a week. His part in our family life was characterized by his absence.
Don't underestimate the effect your absence has had on your marriage and family life. You are going to have to compensate for that.
I am always amazed by the men who just aren't home, but think that life at home should feel like it would if they were actually there, putting the time and effort into their family that their work gets. It's not going to be that way, and you are going to have to alter your expectations and work toward the family life you want.
ETA: I don't think this is testing. Is there a reason you couldn't have come up with a lunch idea? You have a week off and couldn't find any time to spend together? I see this as your wife responding favorably. She found the time that you didn't. Next time, you suggest lunch first. Obviously if she waits for you there will be no sushi. Get on it. Show up.
Walked into world war 3 at home tonight wife screaming at the children. Have to say I lost it a bit after a very tiring day at work, I just don't think she needs to shout and get so angry whatever the problem, although it might have been justified God knows, and we're just starting to talk again now. Not sure I played that well. I think I started out well with this MAPing business but trying to stay more alpha is just not me and I'm ending up just being more beta.
@markymapo I almost wish there was an affair then I could get out of the marriage looking good, but i really don't think she is having an affair.
@edithkeeler thanks for being so nice. I haven't, and never would tell her that I think she has borderline traits.
I think she has pychosomatic symptoms by the way. Recurrent viral infections are just bad colds, not STDs.
Thanks for your comments about the sexuality issues. Not sure what to think really I wish we could clear the air on that.
@Beatrice you are also very correct
How am I supposed to take control of home life when I'm not there? I'm confused about this. It does feel wrong that I should waltz in late at night and expect to take over as Captain of the ship just as it enters the harbour, it just looks like someone on an ego trip.
I'm confused...
The important things are to do it regularly, no work talk, no talk about problems. And just like on a date, the focus is on each other, not phones, books or whatever. [One of my 127 former husbands would take me to a bookstore/cafe for a "date" ... then wander away and get lost reading until I dragged him out of there. I was not amused.]
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
My husband worked a lot of hours, but he had a big presence. I provided stability and routine, and he was Mr. Exciting and Mr. Discipline. You never knew when he would roll in the door shouting, "What's that I smell? Enchiladas? Too bad we aren't eating them tonight! Put 'em in the fridge, we'll eat them tomorrow. It's been raining for 3 days, I want to see if the creek is running. Go get ready! We'll have a little hike and pick up pizza on the way home. Let's watch Princess Bride tonight!"
He would never come home and fold himself into my dinner and bedtime plans. He'd support me by making sure the kids did what they were supposed to do, and he occasionally upended whatever I was doing for something more fun and exciting. He generally stayed out of my territory. I appreciated it as much as I appreciated him making fun for us and enforcing the rules. He was very good at discipline.
I still wish he had been home more, but he did what he could to compensate. You will probably find different ways, but you can find them. Schedule a call - that will be the fastest way to get things figured out.
Lighten up. Humour and good nature go a long way--ask me how I know. Alpha doesn't mean you have to have your hand on every lever. You can't possibly. Especially with a job like yours. But you can set the general tone and direction (and you do that always already anyway, whether you mean to or not, negatively or positively--eternally the captain). Plan some fun stuff now and again. Joke with the kids.
And remember--Captains know how to delegate: "Options, Number One?"
It's a lot to take in at once. Probably a call with Athol is the way to go.
I'm starting to think this is more about my wife than me. I used to be a totally different person before I met her, very sociable, active and a good sense of humour and I loved sex. She stopped me seeing my friends and stopped me doing my hobbies and would scream at me if I wasn't at home with her all the time. She used to hit me a lot when we had fights. She stopped working as a nurse with weeks of meeting me and moved into my flat. I put up with it because the sex was regular and good, and she wanted kids and so did I. I think I walked into a trap and I let it happen. Lots of people warned me that I was making a mistake but I thought we would work it out and everything would be fine.
@Rorschach I still have a good sense of humour most of the time. My wife is forever asking me how I stay so cheeful and only yesterday told me that she is lucky that I'm so happy compared to everyone else's husbands. My cheerfulness is certainly nothing to do with her.
No sex for over 3 months now. There has not been a single day she hasn't had some sort of physical symptoms in that time meaning that sex is simply not an option.
My therapist didn't think the situation was fixable (mostly due to BPD being such a difficult disorder) and was talking to me about facing divorce. Maybe she was correct.
I suppose the plan is to MAP for 12 months then be serious about leaving if nothing works out? This is serious stuff.
So ... work on yourself rather than on your marriage. The effects will be similar; the Stay Plan is the same as the Go Plan. There's always the chance that, as you improve, your wife will realize she'd better change herself or you'll be gone.
Work with Jen to schedule that call. She knows some creative ways to get you some privacy. I've heard that some people call from their car in the driveway.
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
Does that mean she's aware of the problem?
Also, hitting? Really. Does it still happen?
Whether you are bisexual or straight doesn't matter. If your wife suddenly woke up to the fact that she was sanctioning sex outside of the marriage and became hugely uncomfortable with that, it is a changing of the rules that you have to figure out how to deal with. Most marriages are by definition monogamous, so she may feel that she's not out of line changing the rules you thought you'd agreed to. (Did what you said in your wedding vows match the agreement you had on the side? That's a conflict for you both to resolve right there.) I'm betting this was a huge critical moment for both of you in different ways.
And as I'm sure you figured out, going outside of your marriage for sex, even with your wife's consent, is not a way to fix the lack of sex you're experiencing with your wife. I'm glad you're here to figure out how to fix it in other ways.
My wife was excessively jealous at the start of our relationship to a frightening extent and cut off all my female friends. She doesn't show much jealousy any more - which could mean (almost certainly does) that she rates me much lower now, she has neutered me so to speak.
I know this is about me, not her, but in my book she definitely changed the rules. No more sex for me, but I'm still monogamous with her, so my sex life ended on her command 13 years ago. She still gets all the benefits of good house, cash to spend, comfy life and my time and affection. That also was not what I signed up for in marriage, covert, overt or anything else; her cheating on me would be exactly the same. Old story, bit boring, and complaining doesn't help I know, apologies.
I think I need to find my old self if she starts to get jealous again I will know I'm getting somewhere!
Looking forward to see what Athol has to say, thanks for you help trying to fix an appointment with him - going to take a look at that now.
Hasn't hit me for quite a few years now.
I can relate to your situation, having myself had a long sexless marriage and also some bisexuality.
I do think it's possible to be bisexual and generally happily monogamous in a heterosexual marriage. Doubts come and go, they are part of the human condition. You might think you are compromsing your sexuality, but everything we do usually has to be negotiated or is a result of finding common ground with others. It's all about how you express yourself and there are so many dimensions of giving and receiving, sexually and otherwise.
Be aware that actually introducing other people than your partner into your sex life-regardless of whether they are male or female- carries huge risks and is potentially destructive. Please, please, do not make your theme of bisexuality into your wife's problem. It is your personal responsibilty to figure it out over time as an individual and as a man with a family.
I suspect that joy is missing in your life and this is what we call a huge "Red" (negative factor). Your honest assessment that you have "no friends" indicates this. It's fine to like being alone, but human beings need connection.
Humans are attracted to other healthy humans, sexually too, and this is true in a marriage as well. Your body can be healthy while your soul is ailing. No joy= no libido.
Could you consider joining a choir, or a voluntary organisation? As a doctor of course you could have a lot to give- though i would be cautious of taking on more of the same work you already do (only for free). You possibly need some space for yourself, a hobby, something which could perhaps at some point become a passion. Or you need some risk, something which makes you feel alive....(my flavour of choice is whitewater kayaking and motorcycling).
Put aside your wife's insistence that married people don't have sex, avoid that discussion. You can't argue or convince her to sleep with you, these are all things we are completely irrational about.
Once you add happiness into your life, you'll find your wife will over time relax and start to seek you out. Believe me. But you will be doing it for yourself and the world, and not just to get laid.
"Do more of what you love."
I like your thoughts about finding some excitement in life. My life is far from boring I have gone through some major personal changes in the last few years, but I was thinking hard about how much I have changed (nerfed I believe is the term here) and I would like to be more like my old self - I used to love a good party, and used to spend all my spare time volunteering and loved that as well.
Happiness is an interesting concept. I would say that if I had more sex I would be happy, I couldn't ask for more in life really, but that's probably not the right way of looking at it - perhaps if I was truly happy I would be having more sex. Happiness is within us all. Unhappiness is caused by ego, and overcoming that is the key to happiness, in fact true enlightenment leads to ecstatic states of being - longing for it is an ego state which by definition means that you cannot access true happiness - which comes right back to what Athol teaches. Still working out exactly how to apply that to my marriage however....
How do I cope with my wife's physical illnesses? She had 1 week of sore throat, then her period for a week, I forget what was wrong before the sore throat, headaches I think. The period has just finished and she has announced this morning that she feels awful and is coming down with a cold; there will be something else after that. There's always something wrong that means she (a) doesn't feel like sex (b) needs to get to sleep so she can get better (not that I even ask for sex any more).
It's a great little move because I can't deny she's unwell, there's absolutely nothing I can do about it except give her lots of sympathy, but it conveniently rules out anything physical between us. It's just that she is always unwell.