Oh Shit..

Jen_Kay

@Alphaman sorry for blocking you from your own thread by not moving you to Silver level!  You're all set now and can comment in 911 threads.

Alphaman

Jen_Kay said:

@Alphaman sorry for blocking you from your own thread by not moving you to Silver level!  You're all set now and can comment in 911 threads.

No worries, thanks for updating me,

Alphaman

Angeline said:

What is your current status re income? If you've bern MAPping for a year, that's great, but the forum doesn't have any info on that. Can you give a quick synopsis on what your main problem areas were, and your progress on turning them around?

Unless there are clear, measurable steps towards your goals, it's quite possible there hasn't been concrete progress at all. Just thinking about a MAP every once in a while is not the same as running one.

This really isn't a "yeah, you tell her!" kind of place to seek out only when you've had a blowup.

I think of the MAP daily, and try to at least improve one area of it daily. Overall I am a better person than I was, income is not yet up to where I want it to be but it is improving - stalled a bit by illness so a slight change in direction required.

Psychologically I have become a much stronger and more independent man - despite the recent episode and others comments about the man I may appear from my posts. Of course these forum post are all they have to go on so fair enough.  I agree that I have dipped in to posting on here when I am in hard times. I do read regularly, but I will become much more active as I ramp up my MAP. Will update a triage too.

Update on the current situation - I returned to bed around 4 am, and didn't mention it next day. My wife was clearly aware of what  I had meant the night before and was nicer and noticeably more engaged with me. I have not gone back to zero, even though I did show some DLV and should have either followed through or not blown up. 

I had told myself prior to that blow up - after the text that morning - that the answer (or lack of)  would be liberating from the deep uncertainty, anxiety and stress of being half in / half out a relationship.  Well, I got my answer, and even though it didn't go the way I wanted I have accepted it. I do feel less anxiety, and rather than MAPPING with the hope of her getting into me again I now consider her my ex.  I am not telling her that, and only when it suits me will I do so. It gives me space to apply my MAP for me.

If she gets attracted to me and wants me again, so be it. I'll see where I am then.

Thanks for all your support and home truths everyone. Still processing it all and will get back on here soon with an update on my triage and a new refined MAP.

Alphaman

Why did you eliminate 3, Divorce, from your options out loud to your wife? 

Exactly why are you trying to fix this? Is it really only because of the kids? Exactly how so for the kids? Be specific with the reasons why you want to stay. Put them here in this thread with details.I can tell you already from your triage and this thread that your reason for staying is not just the kids. You are scared to death of divorcing. With the bad case of Oneitis that you have, nothing is ever going to change for you. That needs to be your biggest Red to overcome.
I have no dog in this fight. If you divorce or stay, it will make no difference in my life as a stranger from the internet trying to help you think this through. I am trying to get you to think hard about why you removed the only card that might work from your hand. And then I hope you will decide if you really want to continue to not have Divorce as an option, with you fully and completely realizing in your heart, not just in your brain, that the odds of fixing the marriage are nil without at least the threat of Divorce.FWIW, I am in the same boat as you, having gotten the same ultimatum from my wife,  but I specifically told my wife that number 3, Divorce, is on the table, and in fact is the next hand I am going to play, but she doesn't seem to care. I plan on filing in a few more months.I used to be exactly where you are, unable to even fathom getting divorced, but through personal growth, and largely because of this forum and Athol's advice with One Hour Calls, I evolved and grew to where I am today--no more Oneitis, and ready to move on and find happiness elsewhere, because my wife made very clear in her Phase 4 Ultimatum that I am not ever going to get it in my current relationship


I eliminated Divorce as an option because 1. It was pre. my mmsl knowledge and it truly was how I felt at the time.2. It seemed logical in the heat of the moment that if divorce was no an option, then the only realistic option was to work on our relationship. Yes I am terrified of the divorce route. But truly because of the impact on the children and of course not knowing what I would do - would I stay in the small town, move to a bigger city, change work etc. I know that if I was single I would look at my options differently, and perhaps being the greatest man I can be is the best father I can be. I am certainly not in a situation to be the best man I can be in this present toxic relationship.  Although as said above, I now consider it over, and am looking at my life through that perspective. Divorce is most clearly on the table again and I am making sure it stays there. My best interests are not served with being with my wife like this, so it changes one way or the other and both those options need to be clearly in view and available. As for yourself I feel for you. If your situation is anything like mine then I hope it improves one way or another soon. I consulted a psychotherapist and counsellor a few months ago who told me that the situation I am in usually outcomes with divorce much more quickly than is happening with me. I think it was he who made an interesting observation that divorce is like a bereavement with the same depth and state of emotions and phases of healing to go through. With my wife and yours telling us that it is over but not completing that course of action and actually splitting, it leaves us in a disconnected like state of confusion, anxiety and uncertainty. For an extended period of time that state is very unhealthy. When in a sexless / loveless marriage where one spouse rejects and has made it clear its over to the other then the emotional response of the bereavement has begun. I have been through the anger, denial and depression. I have been stuck with each for too long and it is exhausting and disabling in equal measure.  I'm realising as I type that finding my MAP is simply finding the way to get out of that state, and wherever I end up it will be in a state that is conducive to my happiness and self development. 

Alphaman

SignorePillolaRossa said:

Have you been to a lawyer yet in order to find out exactly what your financial position would be and Draw up a separation agreement? 
You don't have to file,  but knowledge is good and can demystify the potential. 

But dude,  you bought her a necklace when she deserved nothing , so papers is probably the only thing left that might get her to engage

Good luck

@SignorePillolaRossa   
no not seen lawyer, should do so soon. I think I know the situation however, our finances are separate, the ownership of property is clearly apportioned between us so it is quite evident who would get what etc. 

I think a legally prepared separation agreement might be a good idea though.  If  presented to her it could be the final chance for her to wake up and realise what is happening. 

I think you can clearly read the writing on the wall. I am deciding if that is the fat lady singing or just the wind?

Alphaman

fordsvt said:

You need to Map dude.  You need traction here and u have none    
Shes not buying this from you at all.  She holds the cards and power here not you.  Texting an Ultimatum makes you look weak and a DLV    
Women don't buy into weakness at all.  Never will either.  

@fordsvt

Succint, clear and on the mark. Shortest and most pertinent response I have had. Thanks. Map time..

livefreeordie

I haven't seen you say if you like her and want this to work.

 If you don't, then file and leave.

 If you do, then schedule a call with Athol and get on it.

Alphaman

@livefreeordie. I do like her, and I do want this to work.  A call with Athol would be the best option,  I should look into that asap.  

livefreeordie

Alphaman said:

@livefreeordie. I do like her, and I do want this to work. But I am also realistic and know that there are things I want in my life which I do not have. One is a great healthy happy sex life -  the same as 99% men. And I honestly  don't know if that will ever happen with my current wife. When I read much here on the mmsl site,  and listen to the videos, it is almost exclusively about increasing the sexual attraction from a place of slight or minimal sex life. I do feel there is a missing step. I need to go from the attraction being dormant (dead?) for 2 years to awakening  (resurrecting?) it to begin it even being accessible. I understand that the same principles apply and being a leader, providing and sex rank etc all are vital and deal breakers. But when trying to navigate from where I am to where the Map process seems to start there is a big chasm to cross and I honestly do not know if or how I can cross it, without my wife at least throwing me a rope. A call with Athol would be the best option,  I should look into that asap.  

That's why I say work with Athol. The MAP is very good, but encompasses the big pictures, and he is very good at identifying what your picture looks like... and sometimes it's just having someone that understand where you are and what you're trying to do.

I've been there, and working with Athol was very helpful.