Advice wanted - how to lead and create RC around an important topic

HildaCorners · November 25

samson said:

You'd never go anywhere if you took that stance.

Absolutely not true.

I have my "toleration limits" ... anything inside of them is ok, but outside them is no go.

For me personally, a hotly contested, possibly corrupt election is ok, but HB2 is not. I would not have traveled to Nazi Germany, but would travel to Israel or Palestine now.

We all have our limits, and breaking them for a non-essential reason is a DLV.

I'm not telling SRP what to do, only to figure out the strength of his convictions and where his limits really are. He may decide that the happy vacation memories are more important than paying taxes to a government he disagrees with — or he may decide that government is so awful that he can't go to NC without betraying his own ethics.

frillyfun · November 25

There are things you can change with your daily actions, and things that you can't. I don't see it as looking the other way so much as looking for things I *can* actively change.

Katt · November 25

How do you reconcile your views with going to Jamaica where laws like this exist? ETA not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.

SignorePillolaRossa · November 25

didnt know that one, Katt - thanks for raising my awareness

Katt · November 25

SignorePillolaRossa said:

didnt know that one, Katt - thanks for raising my awareness

The only reason I know about it is that the nearby town where I used to teach at the community college has a fair amount of Jamaican immigrants and I taught quite a few. We often read current events articles, and when the SCOTUS made the ruling on gay marriage, one of my Jamaican students spoke out against the ruling and mentioned that homosexuality wasn't just frowned upon but was essentially illegal where he came from, so I looked it up to find out what he was talking about.

SignorePillolaRossa · November 25

yeah - sad that there is so much injustice in the world that comprehensive awareness seems fundamentally unknowable

my backup plan when finding out something like this after the fact is to find the appropriate organizations on the ground working to improve things and donate money

i twist the old aphorism 'think globally - act locally' into 'act locally - fund globally'

SharkGuy · November 25

I think you're already on the back foot here.

Consistent principles may be a DHV but not having a solution to an act that you knew was going to cause emotional pain is not good.

I think your only choice left is to research and plan a holiday that will allow her to enjoy the time without compromising on your ideals.

frillyfun · November 25

Bottom line is all you can do is wake up every day, and put as much awesome into the world as you can. I can read, and get pissed off about a lot of things (draining, and unproductive in the grand scheme of things), or I can go do something awesome.

318JimmyNow · November 25

I'm very lucky that my wife and I, while standing on different sides of the political isle, share your feelings on marriage equality so this would be an easy decision for us. Having said there here are the two ideas that came to mind.

First, what if for every dollar you spend on the vacation you donate 2 to an organization working against the law. This way you can go but then net result is a positive against the law. Your wife gets the vacation and you know you helped to fight something you are against.

Second, and this should probably have been first, is to make a simple pro/con list and see how it works out. You will have to live with your wife after this but also with yourself. Which one of you will be more upset and get over it quicker depending on each one. I realize the application of this is not that simple but for me it helps get things on paper in front of me and blunts some of the emotion.

soa2005 · November 25

@SignorePillolaRossa

Full disclosure, I think SPR and I are on completely different spectrums of the political chart so I feel my opinion is objective in this specific instance.

I would not relax my moral views for a family vacation. SPR is only one person and his vacation represents a drop in the bucket , economically speaking. However, if there are other SPRs out there and enough of them hold their morals over family vacations then politicians may begin to take notice of the economic fallout.

Personally it wouldn't matter to me if others joined my movement or whatever. If I passionately viewed something as immoral and if I felt that vacationing there somehow made me complicit to evil then I would not go there. (Personally I don't see it as evil and I don't view your vacation as being complicit in any wrongdoing).

The only thing I can personally think of that is similar to your situation is a couple of years ago when my son wanted a certain athletes jersey. This athlete was very open on how he felt about issues very dear to me. Many of the statements made by this athlete were the exact opposite of what I believe and teach my kids.

I refused to buy the jersey for my son which caused a few heated arguments with my wife. It sucked. My son is a great kid and really wanted the jersey more than anything. Also, arguing over a jersey with my wife made me feel like she didn't support some of the unwavering core values that I view as part of my identity.

In the end I stood firm on not buying the jersey for my son. I didnt have a problem with this athlete for having different viewpoints and opinions. My problem was how he expressed himself. The things he said went against the way I raise my kids and what I believe in. It wasn't about displaying high value or earning more respect from my wife. It was about doing what I believe is right and teaching my son so he knows how to be a good man when he's older.

Athol_Kay · November 25

SignorePillolaRossa said:

didnt know that one, Katt - thanks for raising my awareness

I knew about Jamaica's LBGT stance, I just didn't want to ruin your ability to enjoy a vacation there. :-)

The world is an imperfect place and there's many lifetimes of work to be done to make it a better place. It's okay to take a vacation and not be responsible for it all, or even think about it.

SignorePillolaRossa · November 25

ok, so what i am gathering is that the only way to handle this is to trade outer banks for her wearing a string bikini in jamaica

if NC wants to descend into a state wear international observers are required to certify that Saddam won with only 96% of the vote, who cares as long as they keep the beaches clean

lemme see what i can come up with

thanks for the discussion, folks

never_again · November 25

Is there any reason this HAS to be booked now? You're obviously butthurt over the election 16 days ago. Would your demeanour be better in a couple months, a year? Four years?

I'm being half facetious, obviously. But why not wait a couple or 3 months and take another look?

SignorePillolaRossa · November 25

Actually, it is just the opposite... If the NC GOP succeeds in stealing the governor's race in the next couple weeks, it will be harder for me to turn my head and think of England... If the true result is actually enforced, I actually get my finesse path thru to booking it with clearest possible conscience... Also, I am told that the best places book early, so there's that

JellyBean · November 26

Perhaps you could seek out businesses in your destination area that support the policies and issues that speak to you. For example, stay at a LGBTQ-owned B&B instead of a chain hotel. There are so many small and medium sized businesses to support the tourism industry there. Surely you could seek out and find some that will allow you to vacation there with peace of mind.

forestleaf · November 26

JellyBean said:

Perhaps you could seek out businesses in your destination area that support the policies and issues that speak to you. For example, stay at a LGBTQ-owned B&B instead of a chain hotel. There are so many small and medium sized businesses to support the tourism industry there. Surely you could seek out and find some that will allow you to vacation there with peace of mind.

Best answer.

JellyBean · November 26

I just found this: http://www.lgbtqcenterofdurham.org/

You could contact them to recommend businesses for your vacation.

SignorePillolaRossa · November 26

Yup - that's the best way forward on that front...
Thanks

dalef · November 27

Western Michigan has hang gliding on the dunes (and swimming and boating on Lake Michigan.

SignorePillolaRossa · December 5

he conceded

i told Sra PR to book it

i've been in touch with two orgs in NC working for anti-hatred causes - seems there is quite a network on the ground helping folks to support those who are bearing the brunt of the discrimination, disenfranchisement, etc ... so i can plan to spend money in accordance with my values by supporting those businesses who reject state-sponsored bigotry

win - win