Late in the Game

TheBoringGirl

sadly I am late to come here for help.  the forum is closing in 5 days. 

But im going to give it a try anyway because I'm at the end of my rope and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do.

a friend of mine told me about the MAP and the ranking system.

but would rather just give you a brief intro on my situation and hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.

im 43 years old .. grew up as an ugly duckling and met my first bf at the age of 30.  Met him at work and became friends first.  We got married and he decided that he wanted out after 3.5 years.  I was devastated  because I had moved cities and was away from family and friends.  I was alone for the first time in my life.

despite that, I manage to make a life of my own.  I have a great career that provides all the luxuries that life has to offer.  I don't have kids so it's just me.

the marriage was psychologically and emotionally abusive and left some scarring but I spent the past 6 years working on those wounds with the help of a therapist.  I did not date during that time.

recently, I entered the online dating world and my naivety led me to believe a great guy was in it for the long term.  He was on the rebound .. low self confidence because his ex cheated on him and he was overweight but had gotten in shape in the last 9 months.  He ended up ghosting me after 5 dates even though he said he was attracted to me and wanted to continue seeing me.  

i was hurt but I didn't go bunny boiler on him.  I quietly kept to myself and moved on.  

Despite all the kind things that people say about me, I'm petrified about dating again.

i may be 43 but I get mistaken for being 33 very often.  I'm not overweight, I look better than most women my age, I'm an alpha female .. 

i dont know what else to say.  I'm not seeking an ego boost but I don't know what I can do to keep a guy interested and not view me as a short term fling.

sorry for the babbling .. 

Angeline

Hi and welcome - sorry about the timing.

Define what you mean by alpha female? Are you using male terms to define that, such as high paying job or assertive, take-charge personality? What does your girl game look like?

Let go of the "I look like X age". Very few people can accurately assess age, and your perceptions about what age you look do not matter one iota. Look the very best YOU can look is the best course. 

For 40+ women, you have to let go of the fear that a relationship will be short-lived. Sometimes they are. It doesn't mean anything about the character of the guy, it just means it ended. Marriage itself is not a guarantee of forever after, and it never was nor will it ever will be. You have to bring your best self every day to keep it alive and fresh and passionate and fun. 

You truly have to be a self-sufficient, functional person in your own right, not a broken half seeking to be completed. Your fear and anger over being seen as a short term fling is equally received and resented by the guys as not wanting to be seen as a meal ticket or an auto-Mr., and it reeks of baggage from the marriage. If you're going to assure me here that you don't need a meal ticket etc., save it. I'm giving you the male POV. There is very little of value in marriage for men unless they want children, and that window has passed. 

Action plan:

Become whole and healthy on your own.

Learn to embrace amiguity and flexibility in dating and beyond. 

Learn about girl game, flirting, play and lightness.

Angeline

What ranking system do you mean?

TheBoringGirl

the ranking system was described to me as a female 5 will end up with a male 5 .. and how having a 2 point difference can destabilize a relationship (ie. if she loses weight, she may raise her ranking by 2 .. or if he get promoted at work, he raises his rank by 1 or 2).

when I say alpha female .. I'm self-sufficient.  I have a high paying job, I can be assertive, and I do take charge.  These are some of the things that my ex-H didn't like about me .. to me, I will let you be the man in all your glory .. but like hell will I sit there and watch you ruin our financial future .. I will take charge and put my foot down.  But if he wants to experiment with cooking dinner, I don't raise a stink.  Choose your battles.

I see myself as a self-sufficient person.  I've had to be because being on my own and knowing that friends and family can't always be there, I've had to educate myself on home repairs, auto repairs, etc.  what most would deem as 'guy stuff'.

I don't know if I have any girl game.  I don't need a man to pay for dinner or support me financially.  I am active and lead a fairly productive and busy life.  I don't sit at home and sulk.  I always look my best when I'm out.  I've never been overweight or underweight .. I'm quite happy with me.

I don't flirt much but I'm really easy to talk to .. most guys who take to me, usually do so because I'm easy to talk to.  but once a guy starts talking about bedroom stuff, he doesn't want to know more about me .. only what goes on in the bedroom.  i don't know how to steer the conversation back without sounding like a prude.  I'm okay with bedroom talk but I'm more than that.

The last guy I dated (and ghosted me), had low self esteem .. was nervous before every date .. didn't know what to wear, where to take me, was afraid of telling me he was a picky food eater, was afraid I'd reject him for not saying the right thing, or I'd reject him for not having a six pack, etc. 

All I thought was .. when did i give off the vibe that these things matter to me in the other person?  I work out and dress well for me .. I don't do this to impress others.  I also don't talk about my accomplishments because I'm not into bragging.  I know that it can emasculate the other person.  I'm not arrogant.  I just know who i am and what i bring to the table.

is that a good thing or a bad thing?  so far, it doesn't work for me.  despite all the articles to say that you attract what you are .. have a life .. don't be needy ..

i totally get it in theory but IRL?

DaddyOh

"The last guy I dated (and ghosted me), had low self esteem .. was nervous before every date .. didn't know what to wear, where to take me, was afraid of telling me he was a picky food eater, was afraid I'd reject him for not saying the right thing, or I'd reject him for not having a six pack, etc. "

Why would you give this guy more than 2 dates?

Angeline

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2013/02/captain-and-first-officer-when-the-marriage-is-slamming-into-icebergs/

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2011/08/the-female-adaptation-problem-with-game/

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2011/02/whats-alpha-and-beta-for-a-woman-part-2/

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2011/04/balancing-alpha-and-beta/

http://marriedmansexlife.com/?s=Choose+a+wife

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/09/who-is-your-jury/

TheBoringGirl

i want to add this ..

my ex-H wanted a divorce because he felt that i was boring.  and looking back on it, i was.  i thought the next steps to marriage were .. buy a house, have kids, etc.  and we got the house, but had trouble having kids.  i lived the way others wanted me to live .. as a proper wife/woman .. i thought it would make me a bad person for enjoying sex. 

and since then, I've shed those views.  i have come to terms about not having kids and i no longer view sex as being sinful.  i did get a life .. and i enjoy being 'social'.  i smile more .. I've learned to travel alone and have unique experiences to talk about.  i even dine out alone every once in a while.  you can't wait until you have someone in order to start doing things. 

i definitely grew from that experience.

but being busy is viewed as "not wanting to be in a relationship". 

the guy i dated recently, wanted me to spend more time with him.  but in order for me to make time for him, i wanted to be sure that he was worth sacrificing part of my active lifestyle.

he commented to me a few times that if a person wanted to be in a relationship, that person would make time for it.  and he eluded to the fact that i wasn't making time for him.

so having a life gets that thrown in my face?

the other thing that i'm not good at .. and this could be seriously affecting my girl game .. is that i am not good at praising a guy.  it comes across as fake.  i don't know how to get passed that.

if a guy smells good or is wearing a nice shirt, yes .. i'll say something.  but i have to really feel it or mean it.

TheBoringGirl

DaddyOh said:

"The last guy I dated (and ghosted me), had low self esteem .. was nervous before every date .. didn't know what to wear, where to take me, was afraid of telling me he was a picky food eater, was afraid I'd reject him for not saying the right thing, or I'd reject him for not having a six pack, etc. "

Why would you give this guy more than 2 dates?

i did reject him at first .. and then others told me that i was being unreasonable and not giving him a fair shake.

we reconnected and he was fine on date 2 .. but he continued to say "i don't know why you rejected me the first time .. i'm a great catch".  i said if you're so hurt by the initial rejection, why did you respond when i reached out to you again?"  .. he said it was because he enjoyed talking to me and found me attractive compared to the other women he had met since.

he asked me if i reconnected because he was better than other guys i met .. and i said no.  i don't do that .. that's not who i am.

but that was a story he kept telling himself to make him feel better.

it felt like he wasn't listening to me .. and just played whatever scenario he had in his head to make himself feel better.

i told him before that i don't use my social activities as a means to meet potential mates.  i enjoy my social activities and i don't get involved with members because if it doesn't work out, it'd be awkward and it's not worth it.

DaddyOh

Smart move on the guy. Total beta. 

How about GNO? Do you have any female friends you can go out with?
Maybe, Join a rock climbing gym (hell, any other kind of a gym)?  

My last few dates were via Facebook. Women saw me being active. Liked my pics, and one thing led to another. 

The following might be a hit or miss, but changing your status to Single on FB should garner a few responses. 

TheBoringGirl

he started exhibiting a lot of beta traits as the dates accumulated.  on the second date, he took charge when my car battery died .. I've never let anyone take care of me like that.  he was into crossfit and golf .. he was successful at his job.  there were good things about him on paper .. but there were personality traits that didn't mesh with mine.  i don't believe in putting others down to build myself up and he did a lot of that.  to me, it's insecure and that's not how to treat others.  it's disrespectful.  i could see myself picking a fight over that down the road.

yes, i do have GNO.  a couple of my girl friends and i go out every once in a while and try out different restaurants.  i'm not much into the bar scene because you end up being picked up with guys who are 10 years younger and i'm not into hook ups.  i get no willies from being picked up by a younger guy.  but i really should see it as practicing my girl game.

i'm a member of one of the best yoga studios in my city.  it's much like my second home as i'm there 5 days a week.  i take a variety of classes that has helped me get into really good shape.  i'm not bulky like a female crossfitter .. i'm lean, toned, and i have some feminine curve to me.  at the same time, i'm also strong .. a lot of upper body and core strength conditioning.  lots of guys go to yoga.  i'm friendly but not flirty.  i talk to others, i'm always smiling. 

i also play racket sports which is a great combination of social and physical activity.  the skill level is high/competitive and there are more males at the club than female.  i love it and i'm always smiling when i'm there .. win or lose.  i walk away feeling like i'm getting better at this.  and that's a good feeling to me.  i'm not doing it for anyone .. just me.

i'm not active on social media.  i try to keep my life off of facebook or instagram.

i carried a lot of shame from my divorce.  i try not to advertise that.  my ex remarried shortly after our divorce.  and i know it's not a competition but i haven't had a long term relationship since.

although my ex and i don't speak, i don't hold any residual anger or anything against him.  the marriage itself was terrible and he really did me a favor by ending it.  i got the chance to live the way i wanted to live because of it.  so baggage is stowed away quite nicely.

I've looked at the MAP of other members and i feel as though the last 6 years of my life was doing those things - minus the relationship comfort and sex part because you kinda need a partner to do those things with. 

Eightbit

At forty three, have you really only had one long term boyfriend who eventually became an abusive husband?  Am i reading that right?

TheBoringGirl

yes. 

Husband3point0

Could we do a quick timeline?

Met your ex at age 30. 
Got married at ?
Got divorced at ?

Right now, it looks like you've been married for 3.5 years during a 13 year span. You spent a full 6 years post-divorce working on yourself with a therapist and never went on a single date during that and are now jumping back into the dating scene?  Is that a fair summary?  Or, are there some other events in there, either before or after the marriage? 

Blunt reply -- this isn't a lot to go upon and those are huge gaps of time to go without being connected with any sort of romantic partner, which typically indicates that your "triage" would contain some huge elephants. Compound that with the fact that this is a little 11th hour. This is quite the Hail Mary. 

I dunno what can be done for you in such a short time on the forums. I'd suggest a call with Athol instead to untangle this mess. Expecting a group of strangers to uncork a magical solution on Christmas Eve with few details and a really odd unclear past is truly looking for a last second miracle. 

TheBoringGirl

I wasn't sure what to put so I just gave a quick dump of what I thought was important.

Met ex at 30

Got married at 33 in 2006

Got divorced at 37 - he asked for a divorce in Jan 2010

I have been working with a therapist on the advice of a friend who said that I showed signs of abuse.  I was one of those people who thought abuse happened to other people and I thought what I went through was typical. 

I chose not to date because my therapist advised against it.  You can't love someone until you learn to love yourself.  If I didn't work on myself, I was more likely to repeat the same pattern and end up in another abusive relationship.  So I didn't.  Besides, I needed to reclaim my self-worth and figure out what I wanted.  Learn what boundaries are.  Therapy helped me understand this but I haven't had any opportunity to put it into practice.  I can say that I know what boundaries are but do I know how to apply it in a relationship?  I can do it from a professional standpoint but my weakness has been romantic relationships.

I dated someone at work in April 2015 .. but he dumped me.  He saw me as naïve and easy .. and I guess I was.  He was a player and I should have known better. 

Didn't date anyone until Sept 2016.  Tried the online dating thing - see description of guy above.  He ghosted me after 5 dates ..

There hasn't been anything significant in my life.  When my ex left, I didn't have any support from family or friends.  I handled it on my own.  I didn't want to be a statistic where the woman's standard of living drops by 75% when a man leaves her .. so I worked hard to support myself.  I got a life, joined sports clubs, got into yoga, I went back to school, traveled solo .. I learned to be comfortable being alone.  I'm financially stable .. more so than most.

are there any areas that need clarification?  I'm willing to discuss if it helps. 

Templar

I recommend dating very casually - not meaning hook-up dating - but more on the "let's go out and see if we click at all" type of date. If the date was good, the fellow is not dysfunctional (be selective!) and it "felt right" to you, tell him you'd like to see him again. If any of those 3 things were not met, then do not see him again. You say you are fit and have a successful career. Unless you have major elephants (see @Husband3point0 comment) you should be able to find a normal, well-adjusted guy.  Important points: Don't be afraid to "next" a fellow. Don't settle for someone that you don't click with. Don't settle for someone who has "issues" that will take adjustments in your life to accommodate (not talking scheduling).
Not finding the quality man you want? Remember this, you can't catch swordfish in a backyard pond. I.e. if you are looking in the wrong places, you are unlikely to find the right man.
Good luck!

HildaCorners

Welcome!

One thing I'd strongly recommend is reading Athol's two books.

The Primer will give you insight into how men think. Since we have to live amongst them, and hopefully with them, it helps to know what men are like. They are different than women in ways that might surprise you, really.

The MAP book will give you an outline for self improvement. In order to have a good, strong relationship, you need to be a good, strong person yourself — and learn to have that show on the outside. Running a MAP will make a big difference.

And ... even though coaching is pitched to couples, Athol and Serenity work with singles too. An hour of coaching might put you on the best path forward.

TheBoringGirl

I don't know what a major elephant would be.  Intimacy?  Seeing how I have only had one long term relationship in my 43 years ..

I would say intimacy was an issue in my marriage but I learned from one of my post-divorce experiences that I need an emotional connection in order to enjoy the experience.  I didn't have that with my exH which made intimacy an issue.

I click with a lot of people .. I'm not just physically attracted to the majority of them.  I do "next" people a lot .. probably too much. 

I appreciate the help and advice I've received so far. 

Templar

How often do you date?
Are you "nexting" them before you go out? If you are having a hard time finding men you are attracted to, you are either fishing in the wrong pool, are being too selective or have unreal expectations. It can take a while to find the right person for a long term relationship, but finding someone just to date should not take an amazing length of time. Make sure that you are not painting yourself in a corner by your expectations.

Angeline

By intimacy do you mean sex? We use the real words here. 

An elephant would be child sexual abuse, years of drug use, bulimia, stuff like that. 

Here are the triage questions. You're welcome to answer them and see what kind of help you can get. 

http://marriedmansexlife.com/?s=Triage

TheBoringGirl

to be honest, I don't date at all.

I am 'nexting' them before I go out with them.  but I have good reason for doing that.  i'll admit that I'm not looking in the right pool.  I went online just to see what's out there.  I have had long conversations with people .. but I vet them before I agree to meet.  Usually it's during the vetting process where I find things out about them that causes me to "next" them .. like he's actually still married, he's unemployed, he's looking for a hook up, he's got other girls on the side, he keeps talking about sex, etc. 

The guy that I met and dated, we talked all night before we met.  We spoke every day for hours before our first meet.  He said he was attracted to me before seeing what i looked like.  I love the fact that someone liked me because i was fun to talk to.  Throughout all that, I was looking for red flags and at the time, didn't find any.  It was when we met in person that I was slightly turned off.  His insecurities began to surface and I thought I had put those to rest.  Apparently I didn't.  He continued to look for other dates and eventually stopped responding to me without telling me that he no longer wanted to see me.

is this the dating norm?  is this something I should expect all the time?

Templar

Then the first step is to look/live in a different pool. And just to be clear, most guys will want to know what you look like at the beginning. Guys are visual. If your online profiles have no pictures, many quality males are likely nexting you without you even knowing it.