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I hope you addressed this in the course of your counselling.
Tell us more about your parents' relationship, views on marriage and dating. Were they religious and that informed their opinions?
yes, i did.
I've had very supportive girl friends who went through my closet once. i have great clothes for work but nothing for GNO.
i made it a tradition for myself that for my birthday, i buy myself a new dress and i wear it to my birthday dinner. last year, i bought this low back dress (read: what kind of undergarment do you wear?!) and i remember thinking to myself .. my back looks good but my parents would never let me walk out of the house with this. so i'm wearing it.
i showed a pic of my best friend and i at dinner .. it was mostly a head shot .. and my mom's first reaction was .. why are you dressed like that? is that what you do now? show skin?
and yes, i'll wear the dress again. i really liked it.
Your husband was fine with waiting until marriage and was a 36 yr old virgin. You chose him for a reason.
Daddy issues. That is likely an issue that needs unpacking.
Was this lifestyle culturally normative where you lived? Are you from a very conservative area?
in my triage post, i think i brought up daddy issues in the elephant section. but i didn't elaborate. just that he was not the type of father who demonstrated alpha traits.
my parents are somewhat religious but i think more old fashion than religious. their circle of friends had kids who focused heavily on school, had no bfs/gfs, and appearances were not important. and to have a child that had sex before marriage?! omg, you'd be viewed as damaged goods ..
i did live at home until i was 33 .. i moved out after i got married. because that's what good girls did. and when i got divorced, my parents wanted me to move home and for a long time, i wasn't allowed to see friends because i was discarded by my ex and i was damaged goods. divorce is shameful. it's been 6 years and there are still people who don't know because it's been kept quiet.
some days my mom still asks me if my friends know and if they treat me differently. in their circle of friends, you get gossiped about. my friends have been good.
i tried hard over the years to wipe that from my being but i can't. i didn't drink or eat to feel better. i took courses to educate myself and maybe someone will remember me as the boring girl who is smart .. not the boring girl that nobody wants.
my therapist doesn't allow me to take courses because she saw that it was my natural reaction when relationships go wrong. i try to regain my self-worth by being good at something else .. hoping you won't notice my failure in relationships.
i used to be able to justify it because it wasn't 'self-destructive' .. i was MAP-ing .. right? always working on improving myself? that's not a bad thing, right?
- religious upbringing leading to guilt and shame about all things sexual (this is the biggest one)
- bleeding during sex (always? usually? sometimes?)
- never had an orgasm
- no dating until 32, at all
- whatever the laundry list of daddy issues are
- self-esteem issues, probably arising from daddy issues but compounded by religious upbringing for sure
And those are the confirmed ones. I have serious questions about possible attachment issues, guilt and/or shame about divorcing against religious principles, I think your mom must have some role in some of your baggage due to her (at the very least) complicity in NOT protecting her daughter from the bile your dad was heaping on you, did those several years of therapy actually work, etc.
Not to be the wet blanket again but... that's a lot to explore. I highly recommend at least a call with @Athol_Kay
** The last date I went on with someone who isn't my wife was actually the night that OJ was making his "getaway" in that famous white ford bronco. True story.
for the two years of therapy were not productive. my ex said i had anger management issues - i never threw a tantrum, raised my voice, or threw a glass or plate. i had no idea where it was coming from so i believed him.
i saw different therapists to see if there was something wrong with me in those areas. the therapists said i didn't have anger management issues.
throughout the divorce, i numbed myself and kept all emotions out of it. so i didn't feel anything for about a year or so. and one day, i found myself getting angry at someone at work. i decided to go seek help. a friend of mine also suggested that i go because he saw signs of abuse.
for the first two years, i let everything that was bottled up over the last 37 years out. finally i was able to tell my side of the story. my therapist worked on one area at a time. i reached a point where i was able to forgive my parents for their role. they did the best they could with what they knew at the time. i take what they say with a grain of salt and i move on. even with their comments about me showing skin. it may not seem like it .. but it doesn't bother me because i know that's their take. and my siblings think i'm just a rebel but really .. i see myself as 'living' on my own terms. i'm not doing anything wrong. i'm just being .. me. it's good being able to live on your own terms.
it can be hard when your parents aren't happy for you that you bought your own house because it's a milestone in your life but it's their old fashion mind set. am i selling my house? no. i like it.
i thought the elephant was my abusive marriage and the gaslighting. i think the abuse added to the family issues.
i liked my ex because he was good on paper. well educated, decent job, tall, handsome, athletic. it was only later that i found out that he had never had a gf. we fumbled our way through sex when we did. and with a virgin, you don't have to worry about diseases and you don't have to worry if you're doing it right or wrong.
sex was not painful with my exH. it was a guy i dated 5 years after my divorce that i bled during/after sex once because of size and it had been 5 years since i had sex.
in my recent activity, no bleeding but he was not fully hard and much smaller.
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
if you want to know about the second elephant ..
i used to go to the gym with my ex and he would time how long it took me to get ready for a workout. if i took longer than 5 mins, i would never hear the end of it. because me delaying our workout meant, we would be late having dinner and then i wouldn't be in the mood for sex.
it got to the point where i would get scared of being late getting dressed for the gym. i hated going to the gym .. and if i wanted to eat potato chips or a bit more pasta at dinner, I'd be told I'd get fat.
after the divorce, i went to the gym. i saw a guy walk in with his gf. he came out of the dressing room. he waited 45 mins before his gf came out. he wasn't mad at all. i thought to myself .. why me? i got yelled at for taking 5 mins.
i used to feel guilty for eating potato chips. i always had thoughts of reconciling with my ex and i remember saying to myself, if you are to get back together with him .. you can't enjoy these. reconciling wasn't because i loved him but rather to erase the divorce label on me. would you rather suffer from the shame? or give up potato chips? i went with the shame. i got through this one .. i eat potato chips without guilt and a smile on my face.
many times, i was forced to do what he wanted to do. he bought me a camera and said he bought it because he knew i loved photography. but he did everything he could so that i wouldn't have a chance to use it. and then he would scold me for not using the camera he so thoughtfully bought for me and that i was wasting money. this type of thing happened a lot. and many times i was left without any answer to give. i didn't keep score but i started to see the pattern.
it was after he asked for a divorce that he said that the task of taking out the garbage was mine because i started taking the trash out. and even if i was busy doing the dishes, i still had to take out the garbage. i took the trash out because he was busy doing something else .. we are supposed to help one another, no?
we played tennis together and because he took lessons and i didn't .. he would blame me for every lost point. "you have to get that!" .. "that's yours to get!" .. i accepted it and "i'm sorry" became a regular phrase that came out of me.
to this day, i still say i'm sorry but less than before. i'm also a better tennis player now because i play more and I've learned the game.
i was always afraid to ask him to do anything because it was conditional. if i wanted something, he would hold it over my head .. if i want him to be nice while visiting my parents, then i would have to do something for him.
when his parents insulted me with racial remarks, i asked him to defend me .. he got angry at me for making him confront his parents. he didn't like to confront his parents because they were his "emergency fund".
his father played with his investment account and lost a lot of money. i stepped in and recovered the money FIL lost. he was mad at his father but still, didn't confront his dad.
to this day, i don't ask for help and i don't tell anybody what i want. because if you knew what i needed, you could use it to manipulate me.
when we had trouble conceiving, i made an appointment to see the fertility specialist. they said we both had to be there. i was so afraid to ask him because just two weeks before, he said he didn't think I'd make a good mother. it hurt me but he said he stood by his comment and he didn't feel bad for admitting so.
when i approached him about going to see the specialist with me, he looked up from his laptop and said he had to work.
every anniversary we had, he didn't want to spend with me. he recorded the afternoon football game to watch during dinner. i turned to the news channel and they were doing sports review and the score came up. he yelled at me and said i ruined the game for him because now he knew what the score was. i left the house that evening .. it was our 2nd anniversary.
i knew where i stood with him. his parents, himself, his work, his friends, his co-workers, his favorite sports teams, all came before me.
when he asked for a divorce, he said he was never more embarrassed to have me as a wife. and that all photos of me should be removed from the house so that potential buyers would think that only white people lived in the house. I'm Asian.
when i didn't move home, my parents said that it was my decision to live 5 hrs away and if anything happened to me, i was on my own. i said i understand.
divorce is hard and i had nobody by my side. i felt abandoned by everyone. i didn't cry much .. just numbed myself. hence the therapy to un-numb things.
why did dating come out of this? because i want to know that there are good people out there.
i want to believe that love exists and is possible for me. i really want to believe this. i don't want to keep doing this by myself and pretending that it doesn't matter. i don't want to be afraid of asking for help and wonder if there are conditions attached to it.
i have not spoken about my marriage or my divorce in a while. i don't like talking about it because talking about it, gives it life. it's over and done. i'm not even mad at my ex .. i don't hold any bitterness against him. i was mad for a long time but i no longer feel that way.
to many, it appears his life got better without me. he's married with a daughter and a home. i have a large townhome and single. i wasn't ready to date. i'm not sure if i ever will be. i need to enjoy this life for a while.
it may not seem like it to you .. but i have come a long way. regaining my self-worth took a long time. i honestly like who i am .. very proud of myself.
A few points that are easy to say but harder to do.
-Truly believe that you are not/were not always in the wrong.
-Given your experience, you like have a pretty good wall that keeps people out. Much of that wall needs to come down if it has not. It does mean to let everyone in the world in, but the wall obscures your vision as well as keeping people out.
-If cultural issues are part of the problem with your parents, it is good that you see it for what it is, accept, and move on. You say you do take their opinion with a grain of salt - good!
-Get to know some new people who won't necessarily be love interests and also plan more GNO. This will expand your horizons and pool of quality individuals you meet.
-Get to the point that you are completely comfortable in your own skin. Know what parts of you are good and what parts are works in progress.
therapy wasn't my only source of help. I've read a lot of books on spirituality .. Daring Greatly is one of my favorite books, Tuesdays with Morrie, The Four Agreements, The Last Lecture, Dr. John Gottman's books, Gary Chapman's Love Languages, Harville Hendrix's talks on Marriages and healing from the past, podcasts and books on dating (matthew hussey, steve Harvey, sherry argov, greg behrendt), etc. what can i say .. i had a lot of alone time.
I stayed away from Ekhart Tolle .. it was too deep for me at the time.
I watched a lot of lectures and talks .. some religious, some not.
I practice yoga 5-6 days a week .. it is my drug of choice. it saved me when i felt like i was falling into depression.
i do have walls up. i am waiting to feel safe before i let them down.
i love my parents but they do drive me crazy. taking their opinions with a grain of salt .. lets me know what the boundaries are. what i can and cannot tell them about what's going on in my life.
I've started to become more social at yoga. i used to go and not talk to anyone but i manage to smile and be pleasant .. i keep conversations light.
i'm comfortable in my own skin when i'm at yoga. it's a hot practice and i just can't wear pants because it's uncomfortable. so i'm in tank and micro shorts ..
if there is anything i should work on ..
- get out more.
- make eye contact.
- don't rely on online dating to be social.
- work on making my home a bit more homey .. i could use a bit more furniture.
It seems to me, you are a Nice Girl who is still on the road of recovery. Learn your boundaries, learn how to respect them and enforce them. You can take down the wall and still have your line in the sand. It will be hard. However, I'm willing to bet you are 25% there. You need to practice, which will involve dating. Thing is, once you figure out how to loosen up, let people in, but maintain your boundaries, you can have a lot of fun!
One more thing. You used the phrase 'not allowed" in reference to parents, spouse, therapist, etc. You were an adult in all this. NONE of those people have control over you. No one does. Ever. I know when you have Nice Syndrome, it feels like they control you, but in reality they don't. Change your frame of mind in regard to that. It will be very freeing to get rid of that fear. Your rational mind may not have the fear, but a part of you is likely terrified and fueling the "Nice".
You remind me very much of myself. Im thinking you are rationally in the right place with all this, but are just not there emotionally. Which makes sense in regards to your therapy. I'm guessing once you no longer fear feeling all the feels, you'll attract healthier people to you.
Your parents seem driven, and order their lives, by appearance and what others think of them. You can still love your parents without giving weight to their negative comments (caveat: I would immediately and directly address a statement like your dad's, which was I imagine very hurtful, and inappropriate; your mom's is more of the statement I would just ignore. My mom says things like that, almost absent-mindedly, a negative habit).
a lot of the past was due to inexperience and being naïve.
there was way more abuse than what i posted. i did not get into the whole MIL issue, financial issues, and how that affected my marriage as well. i think i was surrounded by people who cared a lot about what other people think.
my ex and ex-ILs cared a lot about what other people thought .. when others mentioned referenced that they had an Asian DIL, they weren't happy about it. because omg, people were gossiping about them and having a non-white family member.
i asked my MIL how she responded, she did not give me an answer. but her body language told me she was embarrassed because she turned away and didn't want to answer me. apparently my asking was putting pressure on her .. which she later went and told my exH that i was threatening and that she was fearful of me. which was also an excuse for divorcing me and why he accused me of having anger management issues.
i don't know how many times i was speechless by the accusations that came out.
just like my asking for 50% of the house got me labeled as a gold digger .. but him wanting 75% of the house, claiming the engagement ring was his property, and wanting me to reimbursing his parents for our wedding costs was reasonable.
he dragged the divorce out and hoping that i would run out of money and quickly agree to his financial demands. i did not cave. i'm not stupid.
but like i said on the parents thing .. I've forgiven them for the past. and i also understand that i am an adult now and i have choices. i can choose to let them control me or i can choose my own path. that's why i did not move home. i accept the consequences and i handle them as they come.
the reason why my therapist said no more courses for now is because i was using it as means to build my self-worth. self-worth doesn't come from getting an A (even if that's what i grew up believing). the more i ran or hid from my shame .. the more power it had over me. shame needs three things to grow exponentially: secrecy, silence, and judgment. i have to stop running from it. own it. talk about it. that will weaken its power over me.
I hope you memorize the phrase "do I choose this person for my jury?" ... and then learn to answer yourself with a resounding "Hell No!" liberally ... be happy
============================
Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
I know our days here are numbered .. but I am grateful for all you've done.
i will take the advice to heart. Focus on what makes me happy and hopefully the rest will take care of itself. I intend to enjoy the next 40 years ..