What am I missing here?

So when I first read MMSL my eyes were opened and I realized my wife and I were in a comfy rut. What I realized was missing for me was more sex and physical intimacy with my wife.  This was especially acute as our dog had died, she was mourning and withdrawn, and I was looking at how our life should be with this change.  My focus with the MAP has been on being more alpha, more physical during the day, and working towards sex being the default outcome when we go to bed.  

I have not made progress after 10 months.  I suspect I'm missing something, and would welcome your advice.  I had plenty of sexual and long term relationships before getting married and have not had this problem, at times I feel I'm completely over-thinking this and that having more sex with my wife shouldn't be some damn difficult.  

I believe I've ruled out the structural issues, so it's game on then.

Here's what I've been doing:

  • more frame control - not jumping through hoops

  • attempting 10 second kiss - I have rarely gotten her to stay with it that long and it doesn't seem to work.  big flag for me.

  • touch her and stroke her leg, back, feet, hand, etc at various times during the day

  • "push/pull" technique, show interest, then withdraw it, and so on to build attraction

  • Keeping the bed / house warm (cold air temperatures turn her off)

  • being cocky/funny - too much and she says I'm mean. 

  • Beta / comfort - she likes this a lot, but doesn't get me laid

  • Telling her what I will be doing to her later that day - finds it too vulgar, unless I have her physically aroused when she will talk dirty back and beg for it

  • Telling her sweet things about what I like about her and kissing her, and then going for it

  • Because kissing her doesn't seem to get things going, I tend to start kissing her stomach and breasts.  I think I need a gentler way to get things going between gentle hand holding and 


Here's various feedback I've gotten from my wife at various times, which tells me I'm off somehow:

  • I feel like you now want sex from me all the time, and that's all you want

  • I'm tired.  Why can't we just wait for the weekend?

  • Stop pawing at me

  • You're just like all other men, all you want is sex

  • I can tell you are looking for ways to initiate sex all day long, that's all you want

  • You're making bed time stressful for me - I have to worry you're going to pounce on me

  • Her shit test have increased, I do my best to ignore them or blow them up, but I do fail them from time to time (getting better)

We have sex now about six times a month, and it is great when we do.  Almost always on weekend.  She gets really in to it, and consistently orgasms two to three times.  Sometimes gentle but mostly animalistic and passionate.  When we have vacation and the weather is warm we've had streaks of being together daily for a week or so, and things were easy and great.  This ends when it's back to work.  Just like on vacation, we did it daily the first several months of our relationship, this died down when I took a more stressful job and that was the beginning of our rut.  

She gets up early and goes to bed early and values her sleep.  She complains that doing it right before bed wakes her up and then she can't sleep afterwards.  My wife never masturbates on her own.  She would never watch porn, and doesn't like explicit sexuality unless completely turned on.  She prefers to clean the sheets after every session, which is something she just started up a few years ago.  I know she has a sex drive because even when she turns me down she'll have wetness in her panties the next day from me trying to initiate.  And she is much more ready when she ovulates.

Basically, I can't find a way to work sex into our workday routine.  I realize I have to attract her and make her want it, it's not something I can talk or reason her in to. Honestly, I'm happy with my wife, I just want to go from sex from 1-2 times a week to 3-4 times a week. But my trying is becoming an issue. 
What am I missing here, or does this come down to my wife just not wanting to go beyond her comfortable routine? 

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Comments

  • KathrynthegreatKathrynthegreat TeamAmazonWarriorPrincessMember Posts: 3,770
    edited November 2012
    Could you possibly edit that so your font is bigger?  

    Also, where are you on your physical changes?  It sounds like your SR may be lower than hers, or at least she thinks it is.  Did you and your wife ever have a passionate sex life?
    [Deleted User]
  • tigerandplaytigerandplay Member Posts: 15
    Physical changes were never needed in my case, I've always been in excellent shape (I'm 6'3" 195 lbs, and I swim 7 miles a week).  Women notice me in public all the time.  I also earn a high income.  My wife is also in excellent shape, but she is four years older than me.  Honestly, I can't tell who has the higher SR.  My wife likes to be bossy and shit tests, which is why in the MAP I focused first on being more alpha.  I find this works better when she's ovulating, but I can over do it and at times she likes a lot of comfort and that helps get things going.

    As I posted (sorry, can't enlarge the fond) we were very passionate our first six months together, until I got in to my current line of stressful work.  We still hit this stride when we don't have work on vacations, especially trips, including as recently as June.  It was only this January that my eyes opened and I realized I wanted to be with her more than once a week.

    This is my confusion, I have trouble understanding who has the higher SR, and whether I need to up the alpha or the beta.  I've tried both, and results seem random. 
  • FlyingDutchmanFlyingDutchman CaliforniaSilver Member Posts: 602
    Do you have one-ites? Does your wife see you getting IOIs from women who are younger and hotter than her? I went through about the same thing you are describing. And unfortunately, the answer is she is comfortable. She doesn't have to give up any more to you (this may all be subconscious) but she is getting her needs met, why does she need to do any more? Until she see's that you have other options you aren't likely to see the heat turn up just because you are trying harder to initiate. You don't have to cheat or have an EA to show her you have other options. She just needs to see the IOIs from women who are SR+ to her.
    AngelineGeoff
  • Athol_KayAthol_Kay My Underground LairPosts: 8,046

    Sounds a lot like you are focusing attention on her constantly though.

    Do you ever ignore her / do your own thing?

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User]AngelineJimDawg
  • tigerandplaytigerandplay Member Posts: 15
    thank you everyone for the comments so far, this is very helpful.

    Completely understand this needs to be about her perception of SMV, that is what counts.  I admit I'm also not 100% if she sees it higher or lower, I think it's close and so really dependent on my behavior, as everything else is in line.  I'm 38 and she's 42, so at some level I suspect there is some fear on her part of declining SMV, which is she appreciates comfort from me.  But that needs to be balanced by the right kind of alpha from me to generate arousal, which isn't always there.  I know it's those subtleties I need to get right.

    Steu, good points, I think I can be tighter and more consistent on initiating the right way (doesn't come across as needy for sex), not failing shit tests, and not talking about it.  I'll be tweaking how I do these.

    Athol, you are right, I've getting ready to do more of my own thing weekday evenings.  My work and athletics are all early morning, so I'm home around dinner every night.  I plan to take yoga classes on one to two weeknights starting next week, so that should give me more time away from her while also putting me in an environment to create some dread on her part (yoga classes are almost all women, she goes to morning ones and knows this). 

    Some comments over at Krauser's also made sense to me.  Slightly different in my case as this is a LTR and not a new girl, but I suspect sometimes my Mrs holds out because she feels that I will pay less attention to her after the deed:
    • No uncertainty or self-doubt. I’m not fretting that she doesn’t like me enough or that I did something wrong.
    • Do not ever beg for sex. Whining (“oh, but you promised”), wheedling (“Sweetie, but you are so sexy”), negotiating (“How about I cook a slap up meal”) and convincing (“This will be so much fun for you”) don’t work. I accept sex will not happen tonight because pushing hard will come off needy but I don’t accept her frame that sex won’t happen at all. Assume the sale.
    • Focus on how we are losing out on a chance for something great. Seduction is a win-win sport so I focus on the (frustrated) mutually beneficial reward.
    • Keep it positive. Although I express disappointment it’s done playfully rather than all butt-hurt.
    • Make her feel good with the compliment / qualification. Comfort.
    • Don’t directly engage in her objections. Far better to deflect and let it wither.


  • AngelineAngeline planting seedsCategory Moderator** Posts: 14,500
    What else do you hope to accomplish with your MAP besides sex?
    "Speak your truth." - Scarlet
    Remember to play!
    Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
    Be married, until you are not.

    Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
  • NotelracNotelrac Member Posts: 3,517
    I think your incompatible biorhythms and work schedules are cockblocking you.  This is why frequency rises during vacations.  So, since she's turned off by sex-before-sleep, you're going to have to make changes.  Either adjust your personal schedule for sex-in-the-morning, or negotiate with her to change your default to have sex right-home-from-work.

    In addition, your wife has some serious hangups about her own sexuality.  No masturbation, no dirty talking on her part except during the act, and reacting negatively when you try and get her aroused during the day.  But I agree that her changing the sheets is a big red flag that her issues may go beyond the typical "nice girl" hangups to something deeper.  Did she go to Catholic school?  Have very repressive parents? 

    Finally, since running the MAP isn't generating responsive desire we have to consider "She's just not into you."  Even though she does appear to enjoy sex once you get going, saying she's too tired when she does other things really means "My vagina hates your sperm."

     

    Angeline
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    We change for two reasons - either you learn enough to want to or you've been hurt enough to need to. -unknown
  • BookGeekBookGeek Silver Member Posts: 178
    You mention that she "doesn't like explicit sexuality unless completely turned on." You might want to carefully take charge of her entertainment options to include some sensual romantic content that will help her make that hurdle between her weekday frigidity and her weekend hot-mama state.

    For my wife, I ended up getting some Bollywood romantic classics ("Jab We Met" and "Kuch Kuch Hota Hai" are her favorites) and Korean Romatic dramas ("He's Beautiful" was a big standout for her.) This will not work if you dislike subtitles! But it was a good way to keep her focused on romantic feelings, which helped her to feel passionate every day.
    ... success boils down to serially avoiding catastrophic failure while routinely absorbing manageable damage.
     - http://youarenotsosmart.com/2013/05/23/survivorship-bias/
  • greenbluegreenblue Member Posts: 522
    One thing missed...

    Dude accept your sexuality!

    If she complains and calls you a perv, smile and say "yeah isnt it great?!"

    If she gets mad then get mad at her for losing her temper over playfulness.

    There is nothing wrong with being sexually playful and she shouldn't get mad over it.
    JellyBeanDrBeta
  • tigerandplaytigerandplay Member Posts: 15
    everyone,

    thanks very much for the input.  I've been applying Stu's advice over the last week and have had some improvement already. 

    I'm also starting the yoga this weekend, she shit-tested me when I told her, but expected that and passed no problem.  That should help with doing my own thing and a little bit of dread game.

    There is also something to Notelrac's comments on cockblocking biorythims, and I haven't figured out a way to address that yet.  We're up to four times this past week, but I know that's due to the nice long weekend.

    I realize improvement here is about long term habits, and I'll be sure to report back in a few weeks.
  • Joskin_NoddJoskin_Nodd AshwanSilver Member Posts: 4,045
    Your wife needs to see you getting more IOIs from ladies. You can initiate less, and you'll get it more, if she experiences preselection. This is not you hitting on attractive women, it's putting you both in situations where she sees how attractive young things react to you—every time you get a bright smile and eye contact and the young lady touches you gently, your sex rank is going up. 

    Hard to do, I know. Trust me, I know. But it frickin' works every time it's tried. If you're attractive, and women respond to it, having your wife witness some preselection (party, social gathering, vacation setting) and some AMOG behavior from you will serve you well. Right now, she thinks it's more important that she continue to establish that she is the higher ranking partner (thus, she controls the sex, and can punish you or shit test you because you want to have a say in the matter) . . . enough young, attractive girls engage in some witty banter (stress: you do not have to flirt, and it's best if you let them just flirt with you while you engage them pleasantly, like you might an old friend, so when she accuses you of flirting with all those women, which she will, you can respond with wide eyed innocence): I wasn't flirting, young women are always really, really nice to me, and love to talk with me. I think I remind them of their big brother or something. 

    IOIs. Preselection. I think that's probably what you're missing. You live on an island with your wife, where she's your only option, as far as she's concerned. She needs to see you don't live on an island. 

    "There are no right biscuits." – Mandrill

    Angeline
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