What do I do with her now?

pastorgeek

I am not a Lutheran, but I can tell you that who files first would make a huge difference for me as a minister in the organization that I am licensed through. If I were to file, I would need to hand in my credentials and meet the district board to be considered whether suitable to continue to hold those credentials. For all we know, Cranston may hold a position within his organization or local assembly that carries similar expectations.

I mention this not to start an argument (honest!), but just to point out that there could be complex or subtle reasons at play in the decision that Cranston is making. Or it could just be his personal conviction.

Cranston

Athol_Kay said:

I don't think Lutheran's are going to get up in arms if you were the one to file for divorce after she kidnapped the kids. Jennifer and I do know mutliple Lutheran pastors, she has her degree in Religion from a Lutheran college.

I would just keep turning up the Reality on your wife as much as possible. I'm stunned that she has access to your house.

Please tell me you're al least monitoring the computer and any WiFi system in the house. You can bet she'll be going through your stuff every day she's in there.

The access to the house thing was a strategic decision. I didn't want to have to explain to the court why I was not willing to make it workable for her to come back to the state (and no matter what, her being a SAHM already has weight in the court, I understand), potentially seeming to be content to put her out on the street, living on food stamps (this is of course not the reality, but the perception of the court matters). I hope you understand what kind of thought went into some of these decisions.

As for the computers, there will be none of mine in the house while I'm not living in it. She has her own laptop and that'll be it. I do not have any kind of monitoring hardware installed in line on the network, which I would likely need to properly track and log all network history in my absence. But since you seem to have some understanding of these things, is there a particular box you like which can do what you're describing on a network?

Any and all of my valuable things she could go through have mostly been removed already. The rest will come out tomorrow when I swap with her.

Now, what is your take generally on any strategies at this point in this mess for me? I want to make sure I'm doing everything I can to get the best result, whatever that is. Am I missing anything? I think I've got the basics down, but it just takes time.

And it's so hard to wait when I'm suffering through this crap, of course. I feel like the the one responsible adult here who has the best interests of the kids in mind. I mean, early in the morning the other day, I heard my eldest cry in his sleep. It put me in tears of my own.

Thanks, Athol.


C

Linanati

Continued sympathy on your situation.  It sounds like you're handling it the best you can.

Since it's written into the agreement that both of you signed, can you legally hold her feet to the fire if she doesn't file?

Cranston

Linanati said:

Continued sympathy on your situation.  It sounds like you're handling it the best you can.

Since it's written into the agreement that both of you signed, can you legally hold her feet to the fire if she doesn't file?

That's what I understand. As we proceed, I will be watching to make sure everything we agreed to actually happens.

Linanati

Since she's pretty clearly going against your shared religious beliefs, how is she justifying this?  Or has she changed her beliefs?  Is there any evidence that maybe she has a mental illness?  This whole situation just doesn't make sense.

Angeline

@Linanati - affairs often look a lot like mental illness. The stupid decisions, the crazy risks.

Cranston

Linanati said:

Since she's pretty clearly going against your shared religious beliefs, how is she justifying this?

I can not tell you how much the pastors who have been involved in conversations with her have wrestled with this point. It's pretty bad. I can't go into detail here, but needless to say church discipline is DEFINITELY happening for her. And I mean at more than one. I know this directly from several pastors with whom both she and I have been in touch.

And all I can say is she's worked hard for it.

(Oh, and to clear up something @pastorgeek said earlier, I'm not in any kind of position at a church or anything. I'm a tech guy by trade, among other things. Getting ordained - or being anything more than a pew-sitter in church - is very far from what I'm interested in.)


C

Athol_Kay

What exactly is the Lutheran church discipline for this situation?

Is she actually religiously motivated? If she isn't, this is all making it worse.

pastorgeek

The challenge with understanding the Lutheran church is that they have a number of different Synods (sp?) and they have different approaches to, well, everything. I assume there are sub-divisions under that and it sounds like Cranston is in a more conservative/traditional one.

@Cranston, wasn't saying that you were in a position like mine, but that it was possible.

CaptVere

To me this sounds like more of a classic case of a woman having her fill of alpha bad boys and then feeling the pressure to settle with a nice guy for long term provisioning. I'm not really convinced this due to your lack of alpha, but more her unstable personality and poor decision making abilities. As others have said, she had a lot of time to sit around after the children were born to think about how unhaaaaaaaapy she was. Happiness is really a choice when most other structural issues are in place, which it sounds like they were. It seems like she is just incapable of settling down and being happy and it is possibly because of that classic alpha widow scenario that the red pill movement always talks about. I think it's very possible this was inevitable, despite your best efforts to avoid it. Did the sister tell you, "oh it was just one bad boy after another with her. I'm so glad she found a nice man now."? I think you would have avoided her with that information. Anyway, I think you are handling this very well and it really got to me when you mentioned your child crying. Keep your emotions out of it and don't enable her. Get this over with as quickly as possible so that your children can settle into the new reality as well. This limbo is difficult on all of you.

Scarlet

Watch the religious thing.  If she's left the faith (even just mentally, and I bet she has), church discipline will only compel her further away from cooperating with you.  

plainjane

Has anyone considered the situation from Mrs. Cranston's point of view?

I do not think she really wanted a divorce from Cranston. She told him she wanted to separate because she was tired of the economic insecurity his businesses were producing and was hoping to shock him into getting a cubicle job, as he refers to it.

 

Looking back, it has been three years since her family has had economic security.  She has voiced her need for that security and has been ignored as Cranston thrives on the thrill of turning a hobby into a business. Aside from the fact that they live a "rob Peter to pay Paul" existence, their children do not have health insurance, which has to be a HUGE issue for her (and I bet she wonders why it is not as big a worry to him).

In addition, by Cranston's own admission, he is working his buns off at his business, but it is not producing much more than enough to barely pay the bills. Even now, when things are picking up, it pays enough to pay the bills, buy food and fuel. To keep doing something that is not productive while the family is on the edge financially must have been pretty frustrating for Mrs. C.  Being that she is characterized as quiet and reserved and not a nagger or bitcher, she may not have been forceful enough to make it plain to him that financial security was a make or break issue for her. Conversely,  Cranston may not have been listening, may not have heard the depth of her need, or may not have cared and simply pushed ahead because that was what he wanted to do.  At any rate, I think she tired of what appeared to be the hopelessness of the situation and gave up.

 

Many of you have said Mrs. C should get a job.  Perhaps, in her mind, that would have simply allowed him to continue spinning because the small amount of net income she would have produced would have simply eased the urgency of his need to produce more income.  Working outside the home would have added to her stress, her workload, and would have reduced the time she could spend with her kids. 

 

The proposed extended stay at her parent's house over the holidays without Cranston was probably more a foray into a world where she and the kids would be safe, protected, and secure. Sort of a break in an otherwise scary world.  A place she could let her guard down and feel supported.  She did not run to the arms of another man.  I don't think she was looking for another man.  She was looking for safety.  The fact that she bolted as she did was largely the result of the bank account closing event.  She had laid her plan out to Cranston, and he took all the money out of the bank.  Probably scared the dickens out of her and she left post haste.  

 

The fact that she took her children has been viewed as making her an evil witch.  As a mother, one of her top priorities is to her children.  Had she left them with Cranston, given that he is constantly working his buns off, who would have cared for them?  Had she capitulated and stayed, what would have changed?  Plus, had she left the children, she would have been flamed for "abandoning" them.  And where else would she go, but to her parents?  Obviously, she would need help entering the work world.  She would need someone to help with child care and perhaps networking to obtain employment and housing.  She would need emotional support and maybe even financial assistance to get on her feet.  Her parents would be the obvious choice.  

     

This is a case of two people who are not meeting one another's needs.  Cranston is not able to meet her need for financial security and she is not able to tolerate the insecurity produced by his need to do his own thing with his love of risk taking.

 

plainjane

Cranston, I see that you are riding high on the support of all the posters here.  I think you may want to consider the point of view I have presented here, because it would allow you and Mrs. C a way back.  If you can see that security is a main issue for her and you have firmly decided there will be no cubicle job for you, then perhaps you could bolster her security by doing a couple things.  

 

1) Organize and take control of your money making enterprise.  Produce a detailed business plan with goals, both short and long term, and  contingency plans should the goals not be met or should the economic climate shift unfavorably.  Offer a finite period of time to get this off the ground, or get a cubicle job to pay the bills and remand the business back to hobby level. Show this to her, discuss it with her.  Talk to her about its' effect on the family life, what she can expect as a result, and when.  Give her some security through knowledge and your promise to make significant changes if the plan does not work.  

 

2) Make a household budge that will weather the ups and downs in your monthly income.  Include the cost of health insurance for the children and yourselves and a reasonable amount to be set aside for household emergencies.  If there is not enough income from your business, either pick up some part time work or do some free lance techie work to make up the shortfall.

 

3) Talk is cheap.  Keep mapping, but also SHOW her your progress.  Show her that you are doing this for she and your family, rather than because you prefer the excitement of uncertainty.  Show her where you are making progress.  You said she is smart, so ask her her opinion on some of your business decisions.  If she believes she has some input, she may feel more secure.  As you now know that she sits and ruminates, head that off with regular (scheduled?) meetings about finances and the business. Show her that things are getting better and you will be moving forward as a part of the implementation of your business plan.

 

Again, I do not think she wanted to divorce you or get someone else.  She was leaving the situation, which in her eyes, was not going to change for the better, largely as a result of your rejection of a cubicle job.  She might see that far differently if you concentrate your mapping in the financial area as opposed to the six pack/new haircut/new clothes area. 

 

Off to get my asbestos suit.  Let the flaming begin!  

CaptVere

@plainjane Wow you've really filled in a lot of details that Cranston never even hinted at.  None of what you said is congruent with the story he presented.

Cranston specifically stated that he looked over the finances and at no point were they in financial trouble to the point that warranted her kind of response.  In fact, he provided more than enough during the worse recession of modern times.  He consistently looked for work and when none was to be had he did it on his own.  She should have been proud of him if anything.  She apparently had more than enough to spend on extras as well, as evidenced by the receipts he found.  If we assume that there was always food on the table and Cranston worked his ass off to provide for his family and always succeeded, the rest of your argument is moot.

"As a mother, one of her top priorities is to her children."

Because it's not for a father? 

Your advice is basically that he should budget better?  A man that has been gainfully employed and run his own businesses needs to learn to budget better?

Her stated reason for leaving was "I never really loved you", not "This unstable life is wearing on me and I can't take it anymore and I've told you over and over that we need to do something about this".  Your move hamster.

Scarlet

@plainjane I would have agreed with you (at least that it was Mrs. C's point of view, now that she was correct) right up to the point she kidnapped the kids.

She kidnapped his children.  She took three young kids away from their father, right before Christmas, and kept them away for a month.

That is beyond the pale, and no matter what he's done before, her actions forced him into a position in which his primary goal HAS to be protecting his kids.  I actually wonder if this marriage could somehow be saved, but that's a lot harder to do when one partner has to protect the family from the harmful actions of the other partner.  

Notelrac

Mrs. Cranston further surrounded herself with people and family who supported her actions and cheered her on.  She's going to have to make amends for that, as well.

@plainjane, are you Mrs. Cranston (or someone else who has first hand knowledge)?  If so, you're better off self-identifying yourself, before @Athol_Kay checks the IP logs on the forum.  Your post was not a troll in and of itself, but you could easily become one if you continue.  Please introduce yourself.

If you do have first or second-hand knowlege... well.  This community has done some reasonably successful crowd-sourced martial therapy.

Angeline

I agree with @Notelrac - my first thought was, "welcome Mrs. Cranston."

If we are to accept that post as a legit position, at what point does HER commitment to the marriage override her inability refusal to be open and honest about being distressed enough to leave? At what point did she owe him the courtesy of informing him that things were that bad?

When she's two days out from absconding with their children, in a hasty and badly timed decision, is NOT enough notice. She had no plan to support herself, and expecting her family or her spouse to provide that is childlike thinking. Expecting the world around you to just *know* you're unhappy is childlike thinking. Flouncing out with the kids, with no regard for their distress over missing Christmas in their own home WITH their dad, discounting his importance to them because she can't see beyond the end of her own nose, is childlike thinking.

Flynn_Lives

If Mrs. Cranston is at the home, uses the PC, finds MMSL in bookmarks(Thought about this a few days ago).....yep, very well could be.

plainjane

I am a long time reader and newly registered member.  I am neither Mrs. C, nor am I connected in any way to either of them.  Athol and I had a brief email conversation about this situation earlier this week in which I proposed Mrs. C's point of view.

I posted because I was in a very similar situation that lasted several years and I can identify with the effects of the long term stress Mrs. C has gone through.  Since everyone was content to go for her throat without considering her point of view, I simply presented it, expecting to be discounted, just as her position has been.

I do not think she is an evil person.  I think she is a tired person who had little hope for the future, desperately needed relief from an untenable situation, sought refuge and support with her parents, and was looking to move forward to a more stable life.  The "I never loved you" IS her hamster spinning.  It is easier to tell yourself that you never loved the person and leave than it is to walk away conflicted because you really do love them, but cannot stand the situation as it stands.

I am not saying that better budgeting would solve the problem, I am saying that better communication about money and the business would help assuage her fears.  He should have a detailed business plan anyway, both short and long term, in order to maximize his chance of success.  That is Business 101.  He needs to share that with her so she can see where they are going.

I do not think she kidnapped his kids.  I think she bolted in fear.  She had no money as he had removed all of it from the bank accounts.  It was an unfortunate circumstance that she found out before he came home willing to give her half of it. This is what prompted her leaving so quickly.  Honestly, though, what would any of you think if you were so unhappy you were planning on separating and the bank called and said your spouse had just withdrawn all the money from the accounts?  

Flynn_Lives

OK, I will take your proposed point of view in consideration, it is quite possible you are right.  However, when he tried to make contact with her and the kids after she bailed, she made no response.  And for a time she did not let him now where she and the kids were....that smacks of kidnapping to me.  While we may never know what was going through her head, it is absolutely no excuse to abscond with the children if she felt a lack of security.  It is both sides' job to communicate with each other, and it seems that she failed to do so with her worries if that was the basis of this falling apart.  @Cranston was doing what he felt necessary, and may have not seen that there was a problem.  If Mrs. C took issue to their lifestyle/budget/homelife it was her job to speak up, not say "I never loved you"  and then flee at Christmas with no notice as to where @Cranston 's kids will be.  I AM NOT saying you are wrong, I AM NOT writing this in a combative/derisive meaning.....just my thoughts.

I'd like the input of @Cranston on this when he has any moment that he is not enjoying the company of his kids....I would imagine it will be a while, I know it would be for me.   @Athol_Kay  could weigh in too....when it fits in his busy schedule as well.