About this site. . .
You have found an archive of the MMSL Forum, which shut down on December 27, 2016. You can continue these discussions on this forum
Categories
- 10.9K All Categories
- 23 The New Forum 101
- 8 Moments of Zen
- 915 Introduce Yourself
- 671 911 Relationship ER
- 2.7K Married Life
- 2.1K Running the MAP
- 743 1. Fitness, Food and Health
- 96 2. Money and Material Stuff
- 304 3. Displaying High Value - Men
- 728 3. Displaying High Value - Women
- 200 4. Building Relationship Comfort
- 52 5. Personality and Preferences
- 406 6. High-Energy Sex
- 513 Singles
- 45 Faith and Spirituality
- 1.3K Off Topic
Things are bad, and I need some help. Please.
oldfarmboy
Member Posts: 15
OK, let's try to spell this out. It's really long.
Right now, as of writing, I am sitting at my parents farmhouse. (They're on vacation right now.) I left the house earlier this afternoon, after discovering some things this morning. But I'll get to that in due time.
Let's start from the beginning. I'm 34, she's 33, been married for 5.5 years, in the relationship for 8. Two kids, one a stepson, one our daughter, ages 9 and 6. We are contract for deed on a house together, with some unusual circumstances surrounding that, which I'll get to later as well. Both of us are healthy, very athletic people. She recently started back on the pill (2 months) after using the "spray and pray" method. There were also reasons for that, which I'll get to later as well. We aren't swimming in debt, although we do have some (house, student loans, minor credit card bills). The debt isn't really an issue at all. We are not "well-off", but we have a comfortable amount of income. Both college grads, me a M.A. in Sociology, her a B.A. in Women's Studies (bumbumbummmm).
It's very much worth mentioning that the wife has no parents. Her father left before she was born, leaving her mother preggo at age 16. She was raised by her mother alone, who had a sting of loser boyfriends. Her mother also worked as a stripper, and the wife suspects she may have prostituted herself at various points. Wife has two siblings from her mother, each of whom also have a different father. Both are scattered on opposite coasts, while we're in MN. Her mom died when my wife was 16 from AIDS complications; she was raised for a time by her grandmother, who was a devout Jehovah's Witness. Wife couldn't stand the religious stuff, and became emancipated at age 17, and been on her own since.
We met while she was ending her relationship with the "sperm donor" of our son. The relationship was doomed from the beginning. There was an attempt at marriage, but the wife called it off a few months before it actually happened. It was during this time that I met her. She was working as a bartender at the time, and we met while I was on a date with her friend. (It should be noted also that I was in a long term relationship at the time, and the girl I was on the date with was not that LTR. I was alpha as fuck at one point...) Fast forward a few months; she's ended the relationship with sperm donor, although is still living in the same apartment (being poor sucks). We had started to "fool around", a couple of incidents of casual sex now and again. I was still in the LTR. About a year passes, and I finally end the LTR, and about the same time she finally gets the money to get a place for her and the boy, who's now 1.5 years. At this point, the casual sex turns into regular sex - lots and lots and lots or regular sex. And hot, crazy, dirty, nasty sex at that. This goes on for several months over the summer. Come that autumn, she confesses her love for me, I break, do the same, and it becomes a "real" relationship.
Cue Thanksgiving. Day before she drops the bombshell: she's preggo. She wasn't on bc, I knew this, and in the recklessness of youth, disregarded the possible consequences. Well, humans are good at making babies, and we did. Brought her to meet the parents, give the announcement, nothing really dramatic about all of this from them. Then, first pre-natal comes around. Miscarriage. This was incredibly difficult for both of us. She slips into a pretty heavy depression. Sex life almost completely vanishes at this point, only happening during nights of heavy alcohol consumption.
To add to the general shittyness, the first "elephant" arrives during this time. She gets a message on her MySpace (!) account from an old flame, asking her how "Miss Fucks-a-lot" is doing. This leads to the disclosure of sexual history for the first time... I'm no chump (at least not to this point_, and disclose my "notch count" (24), including a couple of threesomes. Then she discloses hers. Over fifty (50!), maybe sixty (60!!). Thus the seeds of sexual jealousy are planted.
This goes on for about 6 months. Still no bc. I think subconsciously, we both wanted to make another baby, and we did. This time, everything goes according to plan, and 9 months later our daughter is born. Sex during this is preggo sex, based on the whims of her hormones. Cut to post-baby.
Feeling it my duty, I finally propose, about three months after out daughter is born (on her birthday!). Wedding is planned for late summer. Horrible tragedy strikes, and I lose my best man and friend in a car accident 2 months before the wedding. This throws us both into a slump again, although the pending wedding helps distract and ease. Finally, wedding day comes. In a very unwelcome twist, on of the men her mother dates for several years shows up to the wedding. This throw the wife into an emotional tailspin on wedding day, and we go to bed that evening - without any wedding consummation. Ugh. Looking back, I recognize that this was the beginning of my sexual frustration.
A year goes by. Sex life was good, although nothing resembling our early days. During this time, we sign the contract for our house. This is an interesting arrangement. The house was bought by my parents outright, using equity from our farm. We, in turn, signed the C4D to buy it from them, on a 15 year window. Manageable payments, good deal for the parents since they get to work some tax wizardry. Bonus feature of the house: the 3rd floor is an attic converted to a master suite. Which means privacy from small children. Good for the sex life, right? Meh, not so much. Sexy times are slowly decreasing. And still no bc.
(Continued...)
Tagged:
0
Comments
Feeling it my duty, I finally propose, about three months after our daughter is born (on her birthday!). Wedding is planned for late summer. Horrible tragedy strikes, and I lose my best man and friend in a car accident 2 months before the wedding. This throws us both into a slump again, although the pending wedding helps distract and ease. Finally, wedding day comes. In a very unwelcome twist, one of the men her mother dates for several years shows up to the wedding. This throws the wife into an emotional tailspin on wedding day, and we go to bed that evening - without any wedding consummation. Ugh. Looking back, I recognize that this was the beginning of my sexual frustration.
A year goes by. Sex life was good, although nothing resembling our early days. During this time, we sign the contract for our house. This is an interesting arrangement. The house was bought by my parents outright, using equity from our farm. We, in turn, signed the C4D to buy it from them, on a 15 year window. Manageable payments, good deal for the parents since they get to work some tax wizardry. Bonus feature of the house: the 3rd floor is an attic converted to a master suite. Which means privacy from small children. Good for the sex life, right? Meh, not so much. Sexy times are slowly decreasing. We’ve only been married less than a year.
Yeah. I know. Brilliant.
Ex-gf starts sending aggressively suggestive messages, putting me into full distraction mode. The dopamine injections from her are like crack. Things escalate. She sends sexy pics. Then more than sexy pics, full-out porn pics. Late-nights chats become routine. Sex life with the wife is almost nothing, causing resentment, and I use the ex and sexThen the first "elephant" returns, and the second one arrives, all in a short span of time. We have a huge, blow-up fight, the result of alcohol mixed with learning that she had slept with one of her former (male) roommates. I believe the choice quote from that fight was "Was there anybody else that fell into your vagina that I should know about?" I didn't know it for quite some time, but this fight left a deep scar on her. Right around this time, the second elephant walks in, via facebook. An ex gf of mine, my "first love", finds and friends me. At this point, I still have some leftover baggage from this relationship, although I don't realize the size of said bags. Wife is aware of her, she demands that I un-friend her, and I respond by blocking wife's ability to view my fb friends.
y chat as the replacement. It’s like driving 120 down the highway - you know there’s gonna be a crash, but the ride is just so damn exciting.
But the crash comes.
I’m in the yard, doing some landscaping. She checks my email. Pics of ex are seen. Tears. Screaming.
Days of tension follow, with me supplicating at every turn. Breaking down in apologetic tears, promising to do anything. Finally, she breaks, and a night of mind-blowing sex, initiated by her (for the first time in forever) happens. I cut all connection with the ex, delete the pics, etc. I resolve to not ever put the wife through any kind of hurt again. She still flashes anger from time to time, but I accept it, grovel, and it passes. Or so I think. One year anniversary passes.
Then two, then three, then four. Things settle down. I didn’t realize it then, but I am becoming SUPER beta during this stretch. Basically doing anything and everything I can to make sure she’s “happy”, mostly out of guilt over my actions. Late night runs to the grocery store for tampons and chocolate. Always deferring. Never choosing. It was also during this stretch that we became physically fit and active. We both lose some weight, she more than I, to the tune of about 40 pounds. She’s looking incredible, like she did in pre-baby pics I’ve seen. Sex life is still sporadic, though. Like I said, I’m total beta, and instead of asserting, I whine about sex. I do things to “earn” sex. Still doesn’t work. (Surprised?) We’re not sexless, but 1/week is a far cry from our 2x/day in the early days. It’s also during this time that she finishes college. Like I mentioned, she graduated with a women’s study major, which means feminism. Now, me being a good sociology grad, I think this is really cool, as we can talk in depth about patriarchal oppression, systems of oppression, all that good liberal social science stuff. For chrissakes, she stop shaving her holy-of-holies, wanting to “feel like a grown woman”, and I find myself going with it, even though I can’t stand a hairy pussy.
Then things take an awful turn. First, she loses her job, and stays unemployed for the next chapter of this saga. Then, she reconnects with some girlfriends from her high school, and begins spending time in that town. (It’s about 45 minutes away) A whole summer passes where she begins going down every other weekend for an overnight “girls night out”. At this point, I’m not really concerned, as she seems genuinely happier than she’s been.
But of course, there’s another guy. I begin to suspect that fall, when the outfits she wears for her “nights out” start getting sexier. The “fear” moment finally hits when she goes out in a miniskirt and near-fishnet tights. Like clockwork, two weeks later it is revealed. She heads to the other town the night before Thanksgiving. Kids were at grandparents overnight, and I get home to find her getting ready to head out. She gives me the cursory invitation, I turn it down (oh god why), and she leaves, saying she’ll be home a little later. Suppertime comes and goes, and I send a text asking if she want me to save supper. She declines, saying she’ll be a bit late. Midnight rolls around. I text. No response. I call. No answer. Full out panic sets in, and I call multiple times in a row. Still no answer. Finally, she calls back. Strange tone in her voice. She’s out with friends. She’ll be home right away in the morning.
We had both installed the “Find Friends” app on our phones. I wake up early, and on a hunch, start the app up. She’s not where she should be, she’s in a town ten miles over.
shitshitshitshit
Call her, she says she’s just leaving. I don’t say anything until she gets home. Confront her, she givs some line about dropping her friend’s brother off. I don’t believe it. She showers, saying she “needs to wash last night off”. I act on a hunch, and check last night’s clothes. Super-sexy thong, which she hasn’t worn in forever. And she was wet.
I confront her again, asking straight out “are you cheating on me?”. She denies, then collapses into my arms sobbing...
Thanksgiving sucks. And it’s at my parent’s house.
That night after the kids are in bed, I break down sobbing. Confront her again. She gives some details: they didn’t have sex, just made out with a little light petting. He slept on the couch, she in his bed. I’m kind of relieved, but still devastated. A couple of nights later we “have a talk”. She puts the blame for her cheating squarely on my lap; my ex-gf, the ugly fight, my drinking. I agree that her cheating was my fault, and again promise to do better, to change for her. I do manage to get her to delete the other guy’s phone number and un-friend him on fb. But the next two weeks are a sleepless blur, with us alternating turns on the couch.
It was during this time that I find MMSL. I won’t lie, it probably saved my marriage at that point. Alpha/Beta balance makes perfect sense. I see my own betaness, feel it, acknowledge it. I resolve to bring in a heavy dose of alpha, and I do. I stop the moping around. I stop drinking. I hit the gym harder than normal. I plan a weekend out of town in the Twin Cities, hotel, meal, concert, the whole shebang. I study some basic game. The weekend is me in alpha mode. We go here, do this, touching, dressed to the nines, all of it. We have sex for the first time since the cheating, and sleep in the same bed again for the first time, too. Things are looking better.
She stops going back to the other town for the time being. I tell her that it’s something that I’m not comfortable with, and she responds. The next few months go well. New Year’s Eve I hear the remark from a mutual friend “dude, she’s so into you”. The MAP is working. She gets a job, with a huge catch: it’s at the same place I work. Separate areas, different jobs, different hours, but still, same place.
As an aside, we don’t broadcast the cheating, mine or hers, to our friends. We each disclose to a close friend, but it stays with them.
Things are going good, until the night before Thanksgiving. We’re both totally aware of the significance of the night, and both of us are wrecks because of it. Again, kids are at grandparents, and we decide to go out “on a date”. The night goes well, despite the baggage tension. We make it home. Then shit falls apart.
The weight of the baggage gets to me, and we begin to bicker. I dredge up old shit about her sexual history, and things go cold. No screaming, but at the end of the night, I get IILWYBNILWY. Frustration, more talking, suggestion (by me) of an open relationship. Yeah. Then two ugly incidents happen. First, on a night out shortly thereafter, a male friend of ours asks me in the men’s room the question: “So, is the wife a total freak in bed or what?”. Wife is a solid 8, and this chump is a solid 6 (hereafter referred to as chump 6), so I don’t think much about it. But then I make the mistake of telling her about it... Her reaction is not of complete repulsion, but rather a ominous “Really? Did you tell him yes?” I didn’t, and I admitted as much to her. No reaction. Follow that with early December being the anniversary of her mother’s death, and it always puts her in a funk. This particular time, however, I get home from work (I work until 930pm), and find her getting ready to go out. This is highly unusual, and my “spidey sense” kicks in hard. I have a sneaking suspicion that chump 6 might figure into the equation. Tell her to avoid chump 6 based on what he said earlier. (Wrong move, looking back) Try to be alpha unaffected, tell her to have fun. Inside, I’m a mess. Check her fb page, and see that chump 6 wrote on her wall about having drinks. Can’t sleep, and confront her when she gets home. She admits that chump 6 was at the bar, and that she went to have drinks with him. I tell her it’s unacceptable, and go sleep on the couch. The next day, no contact by me with the wife until I get home from work. I confront her again, and she’s in apology mode. I take a hard line, and she seems to respond.
Things pull together for the rest of the holidays. Christmas is fun, although I try a little too hard to display high value by lavishing her and the kids with gifts. Nothing that breaks the budget, but still, trying too hard in retrospect.
The comes New Year’s. The night goes well initially, but ends again with cold talk of an open relationship and swinging. And no sex. Morning comes, and it’s on my mind from the moment I wake up. The whole thing doesn’t feel right, and I know I have to say so. I tell the wife that I am simply uncomfortable with the idea of her sleeping with anybody outside of our relationship, and tell her it’s not going to fly. She seems to respond. I follow up with a message while I’m at work stating the same, while also including a little line about how I recognize that her wanting this is a warning sign for our relationship, and that I’m responding, and that we will move forward together. Basically trying to frame everything as alpha as possible. Talk of open relationship dies with that message.
We’ve been out a couple times since when we ran into chump 6, and every time, he’s been very deferential. Tried to buy me shots, drinks, etc, being very “buddy-buddy”. I don’t take the bait, as I’m trying not to acknowledge that this chump is anywhere my level. Truth be told, he’s an unemployed alcoholic, nothing I should have to worry about.
All of this brings us to the current situation. I worked last night, had to be in early this morning (530a). She had made plans to go out with long-time friend who she hadn’t seen in awhile. Fine, whatever. I go to bed, she heads out. I wake up, get ready, and come in to kiss her goodbye, as is the ritual. I notice her phone’s display is lit up. Pick up the phone, and say ”oh, your phone’s lit up.” She makes a grab for it.
I glimpse her screen, and seen that chump 6 and her have been texting. I see that he sent her pics of something. I read a text that says “I sent you mine, now you send me yours”. I’m instantly in a rage. I ask her what it’s about, and she grabs the phone, it’s nothing, what, why are you mad, etc. She stammers something about it being for her friend. I leave without saying a word.
When I get to work, I send her a text saying that I am going to need to see the messages when I get home.
That’s it.
I sat down and calmly stated that she was trying to hide things from me, and that the situation was unacceptable. Daughter had hockey practice this afternoon, and I told her that I would take her to practice, and after that was over, I would be leaving for the night. She starts crying at this point. I remain firm, walk out of the room, head upstairs and pack a suitcase. I take the little girl to hockey. Get home, say goodbye to the kids, telling them I’ll be gone for the night, head downstairs, tell the wife I’m leaving, and walk out.
Which brings me to this. Where do I go from here? Wife seemed more upset about this incident than any other, and seemed genuinely regretful. She really pleaded that it was all about her friend, that she didn’t want the pics (she admitted they were dick pics), and that she was sorry. But I don’t know if a) I believe that, and b) that I care anymore. Problem is, I don’t really want a divorce. I want my kids, daughter especially, to be raised in a two parent household. My parents are a huge source of inspiration, they’ve been married 43 years. I want that for myself. But I don’t know if this shit is worth it anymore. MAP would suggest that now is the time for ultimatum. But what would the conditions be? And could I trust her to follow through?
I’ve read the forums, read the primer, been running MAP. I know I’m not going to be without options should divorce happen. I’m good-looking, in shape, intelligent, have a good job and work ethic, and am substance-free. I have options as of right now. But...
This is where I need help from this wonderful community. advice, please.
1. Alcohol and bar time is a big factor in this - for both of you, correct?
2. MAPing since the holidays really is only a start in defining a new you and, more so, expectations you may have of her. She may be impressed with the curb appeal of a new you, but like most spouses, it takes more than a few months to believe and test the change is for real. Do you think she WANTS to be married to a new you, or has she already checked out?
2a. Is she worthy of a new you?
3. You say you want a stable, two parent family for your children. Do you really want THIS woman to be the role model maternal partner?
"What does your wife want?"
> I lived in a similar area, and to some extent still do. (DJs question at the end of the night, "Who's going to have sex in parking lot?!) I understand you situation. AND I/we have a good to time WHEN we OCCASIONALLY go out.
BUT, there CAN BE a difference between bar time being an "activity" and it being "a part of the family culture." I'm sure you know exactly what I am talking about. No matter how anyone rationalizes it, "the bar" CANNOT be allowed to be part of the relational or family culture. Getting / "Captaining" your wife and family out of that culture would go a long ways to improving your marriage.
BUT, the questions remain: 1) Will she let you change this? 2) Is she worth it? - Is her nature such that she can even conceive of a moderated live style.
I'd be very interested to know if the "guy her mother dated for several years" who showed up at the wedding sexually abused her. It seemed to totally fuck her up on the wedding day that showed up.
Seems like you were cheating on a gf at the start of the relationship and had the first EA experience before your wife started cheating on you.
I think you both need to have a full state of the marriage discussion and figure out what all the baggage is before making a decision about ending the relationship completely.
One Hour Call 12-Week Guided MAP
"The turnaround is tremendous. And I'm lifting weights, eating better, and tackling projects. I have all this great energy without a vampire sucking my life force.
He's a lot stronger standing on his own two feet, as well." - Scarlet
go home and make her sleep on the couch.
do not leave the house
do not leave the house
I second that (as someone who's been in multiple physical altercations as a grown man, but only in bars).