Also, about the swinging/open marriage, I have had many years of swinging and I'm probably the only person on this site that thinks it's OK under certain circumstances. However in your case I don't think it can ever work.
In order to do that couples have to have many unbroachable rules and each person must be able to follow those rules to the letter when noone is watching and you MUST be able to trust your partner implicitly. You don't have any of those conditions in your marriage.
monogamists only one rule when it comes to sex outside the marriage - "DON'T!!"
Swingers will have dozens and dozens of rules and boundaries to protect the marriage. you will have your hands full simply monitoring the 'DON'T'!"
Well, tonight l'm returning home and laying it all out. Time alone to think has been helpful. I have no illusions about what kind of challenges, of all kinds, are going to happen going forward. The frame is this:
I am building an awesome life, doing awesome things. My children will be a part of that. You will be a part of that only if you acknowledge your mistakes, take ownership of them, and demonstrate real and lasting change, for yourself, for me, and for our marriage. Your commitment must be real and total, and anything less will not be tolerated.
Perhaps the most valuable aspect of having time alone has been the ability to reflect on not only mistakes, but also accomplishments. Without any sources of entropy around, it has been much easier to take ownership of the real and positive change - good change - that I have wrought from myself over the last year or so. I know I am above this bullshit, and it's not really my problem if she can't realize that fact, it's hers.
Thank you all for the blunt and realistic assessment of the situation. Your support has meant more than can be acknowledged over the interwebs. I'll update as the situation develops.
Be willing to hear what you don't want to hear. Don't force things, say what you need, maintain strong calm focused demeanor and let go of an outcome. Good luck
I want to chime in and say it seems really likely she has some sexual abuse in her past. I've seen this a lot, and it really affects a woman's ability to bond and her sexual boundaries.
Well. The response was... nothing. I said my piece, and she didn't say a word. After about 30 seconds without any response, I left the room, made some tea, and crawled into bed. She slept on the couch. This morning there was a noticeable tension, but nothing mean. Got the kids off to school, and just bid her a quick "have fun!" as she left for work.
And then I went out and bought a new refrigerator.
You see, we've been talking about getting a new fridge for a couple of months now. The one we have currently is too small, and the kids are growing, especially the boy, and he's starting to consume vast amounts of food. (Yup, pre-pubescence is kicking in) So, I went out and bought it, paid cash. I sent her a text telling her that the new fridge will be here Saturday morning. I got a "really? Ok." response.
I think part of taking ownership of this situation is sending the message that I'm moving forward, no matter if it's alone or with her.
And tomorrow morning I'm going to install a new water line, since the fridge was a water/icemaker. I'm damn handy, and she needs to be reminded how all-around awesome I am.
If I don't get any real response from her, I'm going to set up a couple of marriage counseling sessions. Again, it's time for firm leadership. If this is the only way to get it into her head that I'm serious about changing what will be accepted, then so be it.
If
I don't get any real response from her, I'm going to set up a couple of
marriage counseling sessions. Again, it's time for firm leadership. If
this is the only way to get it into her head that I'm serious about
changing what will be accepted, then so be it.
Why don't you just set it up? Even if she does give you some big response, don't you think that your relationship would benefit from it?
Re: "don't you think that your relationship would benefit from it?"
Possibly not. There are a LOT of bad counselors out there. IME, you have to have had some expererince with both the good and the bad to know the difference. I've experienced counselors with whom it became obvious that they were in the business of "counseling." Just as I go to a dentist who keeps trying to sell me gold crowns and wisdom tooth removal - when all has been, and continues to be, just fine.
Mrs. OldFarmBoy sounds like she definitely has a history of sexual abuse (at some time in her life) and/or alcohol related problems. BUT, initially we need to get some engaged response from her. That is yet to be seen.
So, a new twist. Last night I basically repeated what I said the night before: awesome life, kids a part, if you want a part you need to stop and fix, etc. Her response was, again, nothing at first. Then I gently said "I need you to communicate." Her response was "I don't know. I don't know what I want."
Ugh.
Fine, whatever, I'm going to bed. This morning after I leave for work, I decided to check the history on her computer. Not good. She did a little light searching for apartments, and a little light searching on how to survive a divorce.
Strange thing is, her actions and attitude this morning were much less cold. I made the decision and set p marriage counseling, but there's a catch: this particular MC requires each to meet with her individually for the first session. I set up my time, and called her at work, sent her the link for the MC, and told her I had set up a session, and that she should do the same. Her response was a "not while I'm a work", but I won't get to see her until I'm done tonight at 10.
But what the hell kind of hamster trick is "I don't know what I want?"
I'm sorry to say this, if she wanted you - was attracted to you - she would "know" what she wants. Remember, woman have "responsive" desire. Her current response to 'what is going on' right now is to search on divorce options and appartments. That is not to say that her "response" won't/can't change or be changed. Really, it/they is that "simple."
"She did a little light searching for apartments, and a little light searching on how to survive a divorce." was her response.
But all that says is that she doesn't know what she wants... doesn't it??
OP, I think you are doing great. Good move on the fridge, great on the water line... keep it up. You'll be okay through this. Long road ahead no matter what route it takes but you will be okay.
Switch to a marital mediator. At the first meeting, have the mediator lay out what the consequences to her income and lifestyle will be if she pushes through to a divorce.
The "little light searching" means that she's off in la-la land and coasting through in a fantasy about how wonderful life would be if she were living alone and carefree. Martial counseling will not work until she is shocked back to reality.
The obvious risk is that you will find out that the improvements to your mental health and lifestyle will be so vastly improved by divorce that you will be the one not interested in working on the relationship, but that's the consequence of her opening this can of worms.
"The turnaround is tremendous. And I'm lifting weights, eating better, and tackling projects. I have all this great energy without a vampire sucking my life force. He's a lot stronger standing on his own two feet, as well." - Scarlet
I don't know what I want = I want to feel in love and attracted to my husband again, but I don't think it's possible anymore. Please make things better again.
Major shit test tonight. One of her friends came over while I was at work; found this out at work when I called home. I had the feeling that she was going to try the "gonna go out". Feelings grew and grew, and then were confirmed when I got home and she was more "loving" than she has been the last few days. Got a hug, and a kiss. Chatted a bit, then she stated that she was "gonna go out for a little bit". My reaction was quick, with a look that said that this wasn't going to happen. She asked if we needed to go talk alone, and I said yes, leading the way. She initially tried to bargain, promising that she wouldn't go to a certain bar where Chump 6 hangs out. I stood firm, simply stating that I wasn't happy with it at all. She brought out the "So I just have to sit around until we can go out together?" line. "You're just trying to control me." "Now I have to ask for permission for everything?" Finally, I got "Fine, then I guess I just won't go out." She stormed off and got a cigarette from her friend and went outside. I followed. It was out there that I got the 'IILWYBNILWY" again, along with the "I just think I need to be alone". I told her that I was going to continue to do my best to make this work, and that she needed to do so as well. Then we went back inside, and she turned into super bitch, barely acknowledging anything I said. Her friend finally left, and I called it a night.
I'm worried that she's got it in her head that "being alone" will mean a release from all her responsibilities, as a number of y'all have suggested. How do I go about slapping this nonsense down?
Is her girl "friend" divorced / recently divorced?
You did well. Maintain the high ground. She is basically throwing a tantrum. You are the adult Captain and have to weather the storm and provide a division. Thus, do plan something family related for tomorrow.
In a big way, getting her to think family instead of bar is going to be a BIG part of your challenge in this. Her wing-"friend" could be a problem - IF the functional relationship is as it appears.
Re: "I'm worried that she's got it in her head that "being alone" will mean a release from all her responsibilities." > I read quickly back through this post and could not find where this "alone & responsibilities" thing was discussed. What do you mean?
Comments
Why don't you just set it up? Even if she does give you some big response, don't you think that your relationship would benefit from it?
Possibly not. There are a LOT of bad counselors out there. IME, you have to have had some expererince with both the good and the bad to know the difference. I've experienced counselors with whom it became obvious that they were in the business of "counseling." Just as I go to a dentist who keeps trying to sell me gold crowns and wisdom tooth removal - when all has been, and continues to be, just fine.
Mrs. OldFarmBoy sounds like she definitely has a history of sexual abuse (at some time in her life) and/or alcohol related problems. BUT, initially we need to get some engaged response from her. That is yet to be seen.
"She did a little light searching for apartments, and a little light searching on how to survive a divorce." was her response.
But all that says is that she doesn't know what she wants... doesn't it??
OP, I think you are doing great. Good move on the fridge, great on the water line... keep it up. You'll be okay through this. Long road ahead no matter what route it takes but you will be okay.
The "little light searching" means that she's off in la-la land and coasting through in a fantasy about how wonderful life would be if she were living alone and carefree. Martial counseling will not work until she is shocked back to reality.
The obvious risk is that you will find out that the improvements to your mental health and lifestyle will be so vastly improved by divorce that you will be the one not interested in working on the relationship, but that's the consequence of her opening this can of worms.
It means, "What are you going to do?"
You're the Captain.
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"The turnaround is tremendous. And I'm lifting weights, eating better, and tackling projects. I have all this great energy without a vampire sucking my life force. He's a lot stronger standing on his own two feet, as well." - Scarlet
I don't know what I want = I want to feel in love and attracted to my husband again, but I don't think it's possible anymore. Please make things better again.
The Secret to Why Your Wife Doesn't Initiate; Top Two Reasons Your Husband Doesn't Want Sex; Dominance-It's Not a Bad Word; Top 10 Ways to Increase Testosterone Naturally
You did well. Maintain the high ground. She is basically throwing a tantrum. You are the adult Captain and have to weather the storm and provide a division. Thus, do plan something family related for tomorrow.
In a big way, getting her to think family instead of bar is going to be a BIG part of your challenge in this. Her wing-"friend" could be a problem - IF the functional relationship is as it appears.
Re: "I'm worried that she's got it in her head that "being alone" will mean a release from all her responsibilities."
> I read quickly back through this post and could not find where this "alone & responsibilities" thing was discussed. What do you mean?