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Too aggressive, or should I keep it up?

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  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    My eldest son is evidently a little shaken. He didn't see all of it, I sent him straight out after calling him over, but obviously he heard it all.

    And yes, I feel fucking awful about parts of that. I don't mind raising my voice or smashing the computer down, because it makes a statement of how serious I am, but getting my son involved was NOT cool. Nor was smashing glass, albeit unintentionally. And to leave them without a phone line was bad too because there might have been an emergency. Maybe that's the worst part, and not something a good captain would ever do. Though that's the case for a lot of this: I fucked up.

    The text conversation is almost SO ridiculous that I want to believe it's jokes. I even think they believe they are joking, to a degree. But we all know that it's just an anti-slut defence and they're only talking like it because they want to do it. And maybe are very serious between themselves. 

    After 30 minutes I head out to work at my parents house without saying goodbye. I figure that she'll get to think for herself about how fucked up those texts were, and she won't run away because we live somewhere rural.


    I finish basic work by lunch. I think about heading home, but check the chapter on ultimatums (paraphrasing):


    Take evidence of her behaviour to parents, siblings, friends.


    "I'm willing to take counselling together and work on things. She's refused to stop looking for other interest. I don't want to break up, but this can't continue and it's not fair on the kids. I want to save our life, but she isn't listening. Can you please talk to her?"


    So I call her grandma, who is relatively close to me. Tell her that I found out my GF was seeing someone, and that she's been running up huge debts and has been irresponsible, and basically say the thing above. She is very understanding given the circumstances, and while her interests will always lie with my GF first, she seems totally on board with helping out however she can. I arrange for us all to visit in a day or two if we can clear things up.

    Then I call a couple of her friends. This may have been an error and may have led to what happens later, but overall it was good to get my perspective on their record.

    Two of her friends meet me at a pub, one of them being the friend in the texts. I start with the above template, and we go on to talk about all kinds of things. These are the general topics:

    - The texts, and this list of things they want to do before 30 - they keep saying it's just jokes, but I say whether jokes or not it's damaging when she's supposed to be earning trust back and they should do better to help her keep on track while we seek counselling

    - My perspective on certain drama from recent weeks - I know this isn't very alpha but it still happened in the convo

    - Things my girlfriend has said and felt about me, both good and bad, which is revealing. Seems she holds me in high esteem sometimes after all.

    - Lots of their perspective on things and other general banter about their personal lives, we got on pretty well


  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    Later, one of them gets a couple of texts, and they're concerned when I describe (accurately) what I did that morning. I suspect this may have triggered one of them to text another friend or something to go see my girlfriend, I don't know. One of them keeps asking what I will do when I get home, or what would happen with the kids, because I've been saying it might really be over because I can't tolerate that kind of behaviour. But I also say I'm hoping she steps up to her responsibilities of apologising and working to build back my trust, which she has only done a little bit of - and then lost it all.

    After two hours I head home and the family is out. At first I think they're at the park but then see all the nappies are gone, and the toiletries. This is my text conversation with the friend who met me:

    Me: Hey, thanks for coming out today. Looks like GF has packed up because the nappies are gone. No idea where she's gone. Let me know if she is alright if you hear anything. 

    Her friend: Hi Gus. Yes I've heard from GF. She's ok. She needs time plis is allowing time for you to calm down. She will be in contact with you when she's ready.

    I text to say I've been offered a last-minute counselling session in the morning. The friend asks on my behalf and says my GF will come to the counselling session, and wants the address and postcode. And to contact my GF's cleaning employer to cancel her work tomorrow (remember, I have her mobile phone and therefore all the numbers)

    I mangae to guess which house she's staying at, and speak to the friend who owns it. I talk a little too much, should have been more brief, but essentially say I want to say goodnight to my kids. They say that's alright thought the big one doesn't want to talk at first. I tell the friend I'm not okay with chasing her employer when I've just read about her wanting to fuck someone she met yesterday. Friend says again it was a joke. I say I'll get them the numbers and address.

    Here we are. I've been upset. No outcome independence here, which isn't good for my game but it's true either way. 
  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    SO HERE ARE MY QUESTIONs (sorry to rant for so long. Haven't had someone to talk to about it. Yeah, beta at heart.)

    It seems appropriate to apologise for getting my son involved in our argument, and for cutting off her access to phones and friends, if at least for the potential emergency line that was cut off. I don't want to apologise for the overall outburst. 

    Bearing in mind that we will meet in a counselling session tomorrow morning:

    - I can go with the 'it was a joke' thing to a degree... it depends how sorry she seems. I dunno. But she has to apologise. How do I tell her to do this?

    - How do I apologise to help break the stalemate without being a pussy and going first? Or is it okay to go first?

    Ah you get what I mean, I don't know how to approach either side of this.

    And I don't know how I should behave. Being aloof and distant doesn't seem right, given that counselling is the one thing we've been talking about for weeks that might help with our more deeper rooted and longstanding issues.

    And I'm worried that counselling lends itself to being beta by talking about feelings a lot. I'll try to hold back and have her talk equally. Anyone have tips on counselling sessions with a partner?

    - I want the kids back tomorrow. How should I insist that she comes back with them? I guess she's waiting to see how the counselling goes. The concern for me: she's going to use it as a middle ground to say 'we're not coming back.' This will destroy me. How do I respond to it?

    I know most of you will say to dump her. My goal is to get past these hurdles and run the map, get SR higher, and have a successful relationship and happy kids. But damn, it's going to be hard.

  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    I started by saying what I did yesterday by bringing our son in was wrong. That did a lot of good. We had a good counselling session and now we've gone to her grandmas for a few days.

    She won't kiss, as a means to control the frame between us I think. I don't want to seem needy by pushing for it so trying to appear outcome independent, and I guess there's room to play a long slow game now, but I don't want to seem beta by doing nothing about it.

    And it seems like a huge DLV to be letting the texts slide, and when I think about them I lose my attraction for her anyway.
  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    Awesome beta + alpha move (she's on PMS so I figured this would work): 

    When she went out for a run last night, I ran her a bath and lit some candles. I put her phone in there too. When she got back (I keep her waiting at the door, but only because i'm rushing to finish preperations) I tell her to go upstairs. She's in a bad mood and tries to ignore; I insist and nudge her from behind. 

    I guide her in, shut the door, then text 'scrub yourself up, find your purple nightie [a sexy silk nightie she used to wear a lot] and find me.'

    --

    (how it played out)

    Same as above, then...

    I have a lit fire and some music in the living room... annoyingly she comes down right as I take a toilet break, but I come out in time. She has a dressing gown on so I'm secretly annoyed that she didn't do as I asked. The kitchen is no place for immediate action and I feel like punishing her for not playing along, but five minutes later I follow upstairs (it's bedtime anyway) and turns out she has the nightie on after all. Boom, I go down on her, two orgasms later we have awesome sex and seems like she comes before I do. Then I finish with raw pounding.

    I bet she'll turn on the shit test cannon later, and I'll have to play it careful because she visits friends to gossip tonight. Don't want to fail, don't want her to be complaining and getting a tonne of 'get out' advice.
  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    Time for an update.

    Things are going well - perhaps a little too well. 

    She was a little distant the week following my last post. I thought she was on PMS so upped the beta a big notch, and she would have been on it but the morning after pill last month has thrown it all off. She started her period this week, so it looks like she was really ovulating. Not a good time to turn beta!

    I caught her looking at legal advice on 'leaving a partner you are living with' while we were at her parents. This is five minutes after I found a letter in the car saying she has a store credit card, which is on top of the £1100 debt I already knew about.

    I confronted her in front of her parents, but it turned into her parents telling me what I should have done better... not a good look. There was a LOT of blue pill advice. 

    We talked in the car on the way back, and to be honest it felt like a very positive turning point (and she admits to ANOTHER £700 of debt, putting the total at £1800. SO her transparency thing a few weeks ago was bullshit). Things have been good since then, and getting better, but there's been less shit tests and less sex than when we were fighting all the time a month ago. 

    Then it was her birthday... and I did a surprise bomb that she will never forget. (Ir might prove to be a bad thing, because it was so good that normal life will never be as interesting).

    - I woke her up with breakfast in bed, and a card with a set of orders (pack these things, be ready at 10am etc)
    - Took her on a rowboat near her grandmas
    - When she thinks we're staying at her grandmas, I take the bags back out to the car and say 'come with me... we're not done'
    - We go to a 4 star hotel at the poshest place on the planet (seriously, this place has the highest house prices on the planet. I mean that literally, you could look it up).
    - We have sex. She's just started her period, DAMMIT! We do it anyway, she says she loves me right after I come in her.
    - She gets a full body spa treatment while I hit the gym.
    - We have an amazing meal. I say I love her this time. I have a picture of her here which will always be my favourite.

    Now, I know there's some big risks here. The honeymoon can't last forever, and I've got to be alpha too. She has to face up to the financial issues without wanting to check out again, but I can't avoid the topic when it has to be solved. She's been taking the steps I suggest to go and fix it... but whehter she follows through and sticks to a plan remains to be seen.

    It will be telling to see how things are when she is ovulating again. I don't want to be the comforting beta who keeps her busy and helps her deal with, oh you know, the MASSIVE DEBT SHE HAS until ovulation when she "goes to dance". But genuinely, I know her pretty well and for now she seems to be looking at me like the man of the house again. 

    *last minute shit test*: She goes to her grandmas and texts me to take the washing out of the machine. It finished before she left. Dammit! I have to do it because it needs doing, but I hate to take an order like that over a text! I didn't reply and just did it. She's too good at this shit!
  • NotelracNotelrac Member Posts: 3,517
    I have to do it because it needs doing
    No, it doesn't.

    Pretend you didn't get the text.  Let the clothes get moldy.

     

  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    @belle Stopped snooping on her so much, it was making me paranoid and in turn ruining my frame. There hasn't been any evidence of anything bad, and one friend even said they wanted someone like me which was probably a huge win. 

    @notelrac I was tempted to do this, but she knows I'm all over my notifications and wouldn't miss it. That wouldn't be a problem, but it seemed like a reasonable request since she was an hour away and wouldn't be back until late, plus we need clothes dry for today to go visit other family tonight. Am I wrong to think this was in 'reasonable request' zone? (On second thought, it IS a reasonable request, but I should have made her jump through some kind of hoop via text so I'm not just being a silent house bitch.)
  • picardpicard Silver Member Posts: 1,848
    edited April 2013
    gus said:
     (On second thought, it IS a reasonable request, but I should have made her jump through some kind of hoop via text so I'm not just being a silent house bitch.)
    You nailed it right here @gus . Don't sweat it though it was just a minor blip, the issues isn't hitting a home run every time it's just having a good score.

    I find with the anger issues in general that sometimes my FO just likes to make a lot of noise so I'll notice she's upset, but when I don't take it seriously and just get on with my day she eventually adjusts her mood to fit mine.

  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    Shit has been dealt with. I went to anger management a few years ago, and had clearly forgotten everything from it recently - things spilled over while I was trying to up my alpha, but went overboard. The errors: being childish (snowball episode), and losing my shit in a big way when I saw those test messages. One thing I wish I didn't read was heartiste saying the occasional smashed plate doesn't go amiss - that was the laptop moment, but doing that fed MY hamster and I went overboard. Gotta stick to my guns and keep a stern calm frame that does so well in other situations.
  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    Damn, when you put it like that...

    I wouldn't have booked it if I knew about the full extent of the debt, I got it off groupon shortly after reading the MAP because it was time to start surprising her and showing her life with me can be exciting and enjoyable. 

    But you're right... and one big problem is that she starts to shut down when I get her to face these problems. She'll say "OK" and agree, but in a very monotone "I'm zoning out" voice. 

    I feel like she could be doing better, but it's important to remember that a hamster runs her wheel and there's only so much to expect in that circumstance. There's plenty that I think she's doing better, like making an effort to be more playful and going with the sexual flow more (sex three times night before last, then shit tested HARD last night and this morning. I failed a couple of big ones.) There's other positive hints in her communique with friends... but then last night she was being very private with the iPad, claiming to be arranging a surprise for my birthday but according to iCloud tabs she was just on email and Facebook. Which makes sense if she's arranging presents with family and friends, but it triggered the paranoid side of me for sure.
  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    I've just been through this thread again and can't believe how drastically different things are thanks to the advice of the book, this forum and relationship counselling.

    I don't want to pretend everything is fixed, but this is less of a knife edge. Here's a summary of what she did for my birthday, as posted in another thread:

    She did an excellent steak meal, picked a great wine, cooked an amazing desert (and two versions of it just to see which is better) plus a cheese board (for the first time in our entire relationship). In fact, this is the first time she's done a meal like this wearing a super-sexy dress and candles in our relationship, certainly the last few years. 

    There's another two days of this coming up, with a meal with friends and her treating me to a surprise day out tomorrow. 

    Best case scenario is that I keep running the MAP and we keep living this positive happy lifestyle that came up over the last week or two. I'm not fast at dealing with certain shit tests because DAMN she is good at them, and the main concern is raising my income and keeping it steady because I freelance (though I have a great mentor helping me at the minute). 

    Worst case scenario... she's rolling with it because it's an easy path forward and wants to slowly get her ducks in a row before getting out. 

    In reality, I think it's somewhere in the middle - maybe she feels all those things, and maybe she wants me to keep getting my shit together so that the easy path forward is the RIGHT path forward. And if I reveal myself to be anything less, she'll at least have some idea of what to do if she wants to bail out.

    Hopefully that makes me some kind of tentative plan A, which can turn into a solid plan A... or indeed, the only plan.
    Neanderthal2000Athol_Kayal2682
  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    Update: We're engaged.
  • pachanpachan Member Posts: 175
    wtf, you must be a troll because this cant be real.


    i mean...wtf. i am completely speechless. your poor children need a stable home and you 2... you 2 cant provide that. add endless cheating.. you putting up with that. i dont even understand why you come here when you reject all the great advice the other posters give you.


    reading this feels like watching a opera. next week shes going to fall in a coma and you will meet her twin sister.
    MuchhappierwifeAngelineDirtriderGuitarslinger
  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    edited August 2013
    I'm too short on time to fill in all the gaps on what's happened since my last set of posts, but she's actively dealt with her debt and she's actively blocked her bad influence friend out of her life (that's not something she told me, I found out during some due to due diligence on her Facebook). I'm a better capatin, and the new job has dealt with a big structural issue which was my unpredictable income. 

    I'm not in the clear - I have to keep up being a great captain. But for once, I am.

    Edit: "your poor children need a stable home" - I don't see how breaking up would provide that. 
  • ElliseEllise Member Posts: 186
    I never read this thread the first time around. I just read the whole thing and it's like a joke, that "we're engaged" thrown in there like that. 

    I'm gobsmacked.
    PhoenixDownAngelineDirtrider
  • GuitarslingerGuitarslinger USASilver Member Posts: 155
    edited August 2013
    Deleted post: Overly snarky rant
  • gusgus Member Posts: 79
    edited September 2013
    I don't know what to day. Why is is so weird for a map to start working?

    Let's look at this in context: I was a weed junkie who spent next to zero time with my partner. She followed me chasing short-term projects for about six years. I never initiated and spent 15 hours/day on a laptop.

    Now I have almost doubled my income and have a new job, have become a better dad, know how to have fun, make her orgasm frequently, have been working out 3x per week for six months and things around the house have been getting done. Most of all, I've learnt how to connect with her emotionally and her life is interesting again. I imagine she feels like I'm offering a future she can side with.

    For the record (and maybe of interest to @atholkay) I think the drama and low point described in this thread was actually pretty powerful as a before/after point. Clean slate on both sides. We both screwed up big time, and the counselling kinda worked (if not in reality, in her mind while I ironed out the map).

    But like I said... gotta keep mapping and being a good captain. That's the only way to sail in a straight line. Wish me luck!
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