Pop the question or break up?

austintime

Hey guys,

I'd really appreciate your thoughts, especially Athol's. We’ve been planning for a Christmas wedding, I bought the ring, and then I thought, whoa, I’d better think about this. So we’ve postponed the wedding and I’m taking this week and next week to think it through.

She’s about a 7, and will move up when she gets back to working out (she likes Crossfit). She loves having sex (wants it 1-2 times a day) and is willing to try anything. She loves to travel. She’s smart, cultured, very sweet and super devoted to me. The bad: she’s on ADHD meds. She has student loans (but is paying them off). Sometimes she pities herself and blames others.

  I never really “fell in love” (she fell for me). I’ve just come to love her over the last year. Sexually she wasn’t really my type but in the ballpark, now I like her more. I’ve been evaluating whether monogamy is really a good idea or not. I think it might be for someone like me who wants to be very productive, and also build a stable home life. On the other hand I like people but don't need them, so I might be okay without it. 

I’ve become an agnostic/atheist while we’ve been dating, so it took us about 8 months to start having sex. She’s the first girl I’ve had sex with, and maybe the third girl I’ve dated. I wonder if I should go out and get more experience. I have a lot of other life experience. I’ve been going through a lot of personal change, and she’s willing to put up with all of that and more. She isn’t enthusiastic about having kids but is willing to do it – I want 4 or 5. After I finish my federal clerkship, I’m going to become an entrepreneur – that’s pretty risky and she’s not wild about risk, and it takes a lot of hard work and I'm worried about neglecting her while I do it. I’m getting into the Red Pill stuff and upping my game; I could get to 8 (I figure 9 and 10 are for good-looking millionaires). I have good prospects what with education and ambition (but need to get more ripped and be more assertive), but she’s already happy with my Alpha/Beta traits.

Intellectually, I keep thinking, I can’t pass this up: educated, extraordinarily devoted, level-headed, hard-working, loves sex. But I’m trying to make sure I get the icing too – I like icing. Or to mix metaphors, I don’t want to look over the fence in a few years and see that the grass is greener. Should I be feeling more passion? Would I be feeling more passion if she were naturally my type? Should I date more first?

Questions, thoughts, insults? Thanks guys.

x1134x

If you're not flat blown away, DON'T SETTLE.

Even if you ARE, you WILL eventually experience the "grass is greener" thoughts. You just will.

Hipster_Hick

How old are you?  Her?  If you're young and ambivalent, move on.

Just getting to 4-5 kids is a huge commitment of time, money, and your future wife's vitality.  If you go with her odds are good that willingness to get to 4-5 will go away along the way, or that she will resent the sacrifice she made.

austintime

Thanks a lot for the feedback, guys. I'm 28, she's 26. We've hung out around each other's families a lot. We're both lawyers, interested in science/tech. I mean, a lot of good things going, but getting the ring gave me a reality check. So I'm still thinking. 

Hipster_Hick

If you want 5 kids with her, you'll need to get started soon.  Huge impact on her career plans.  Is she good with that?  Are you both carrying a lot of school debt?

Athol_Kay

You're basically saying you found a magical unicorn, and you're not happppppppppppy?

What's her Girl Game like?

austintime

She figures that if we're going to have kids, we might as well get started almost right away. She has some debt but not a crazy amount.

Girl Game: she likes cooking for me, is submissive, and as I say very sweet. Clean. Very rational and likes calm discussions. She's gained weight and stopped working out over the last year, but she's not fat by any means. Great breasts/butt (okay, the butt used to be better), legs not so much. She sometimes has kinda low self-esteem, which bugs me.

So, trying to figure out my own hesitation, either I feel I could move up a hotness level, now that I'm free mentally to go play the game, or I'm looking for some extra zing that might come if she had increased passion for life. I'm just not sure.

god I love the internet sometimes - opinions and advice from the right people at the right time!

Athol_Kay

austintime said:

Girl Game: she likes cooking for me, is submissive, and as I say very sweet. Clean. Very rational and likes calm discussions. She's gained weight and stopped working out over the last year, but she's not fat by any means. Great breasts/butt (okay, the butt used to be better), legs not so much. She sometimes has kinda low self-esteem, which bugs me.

I ruled out everything that wasn't Girl Game.

Pretty much everything in that list was unattractive or a Beta trait.

I mean has a rational calm discussion ever given you a hard on?

 

Kathrynthegreat

I, for one, would hate to marry a man who said things about me like, "I never really “fell in love”. . . Sexually she wasn’t really my type. . .  I’ve been evaluating whether monogamy is really a good idea or not. . . .  I feel I could move up a hotness level. . . "

Elaine

You should marry the person you never want to live without - not the one you can live with. 

austintime

@ Athol - let me try the Girl Game again (I'm reading the Primer now, btw - though I've read most of the blog, it adds a lot). Is submissive, fit, has hips/butt/breasts. She dresses well, takes care of herself (hence the "clean"), likes kink. And she's really into me - apparently I naturally turn her on. She's had about 5 past partners.

@ Kathryn - Fair enough. I am trying to figure out if some of this thought process is my own Rationalization Hamster speaking, while in the background there's some relative Sex Rank stuff happening. 

Speaking of the Primer. "Chemistry" indicates genetic compatibility! I had no idea. This is going to sound weird, but: when we got together, I didn't like her breath. She didn't have bad breath. I just didn't like it. And now I'm adjusted and I like it. 

@RedPillNewb - good question. But "meh" isn't my only feeling. I really like her. Until last week we Skyped for an hour most days. She's very against divorce, she wants to work hard at the relationship/marriage, and she's willing to move to support my future career (she does expect some tit for tat). I don't think it's possible to do better on the Beta game front, and probably not possible to do a whole lot better on the Alpha front. 

justsomeguy

How about her family? What does her mother look like?
What are her friends like?

fredless

Get a coin--heads you marry this woman, tails you don't marry her.  Go and flip the coin, come back here and tell me whether it was heads or tails--then I will tell you what that means.  Seriously.

JimDawg

As others have said, the fact that you are asking this question raises red flags, but that isn't really what this post is about.

A little unsolicited advice on your career, be careful about starting your own practice too early. If you go out to soon without the requsite experience and book of clients you can easily get into a situation where you will take any old case just to keep the lights on, even cases where you have no idea what you are doing. It sucks having to be constantly worried that you are going to get disbarred or that you arent going to be able to put food on the table. The legal job market is tough right now, and I know plenty of people who have started their own shop because they couldnt find anything else. You are not in that position. You have a federal clerkship, the career potential that that unlocks for you is immeasurable. You should be able to land a job at a firm. That way you can spend a few years learning how to actually be a lawyer and building your client list and business contacts. It's always better to learn your trade on someone else's dime. You will be in a much better position when you start your own shop.

austintime

@ justsomeguy - her mother looks pretty good, I'd say. And she has a good mixed crowd of friends where she came from. We tend to like similar people here. 

@ JimDawg - thanks! I was thinking of going non-legal entrepreneur, but if I stick with the legal side I'll remember that. 

Louise

You seem quite apathetic about her. i would never want to marry a man whose feelings for me were that lukewarm. Does she really want to marry you, knowing your lack of enthusiasm? i'd only want to marry a man who was really keen on me.

_io

In other words, if she read this thread, do you think she would be surprised at your description of her?  Of the relationship?  About how you feel about her?  

JimDawg

austintime said:

@ JimDawg - thanks! I was thinking of going non-legal entrepreneur, but if I stick with the legal side I'll remember that. 

Good. The world has plenty of lawyers already.

JellyBean

austintime said:

I’ve become an agnostic/atheist while we’ve been dating, so it took us about 8 months to start having sex. She’s the first girl I’ve had sex with, and maybe the third girl I’ve dated.

Will you please help me understand what you becoming an atheist has to do with an 8 month span of time together before having sex?  Did you mean that prior to becoming atheist, you were faithful to some religious tradition that forbids premarital sex?

Frankly, I think this bit is the least of your concerns.  You're not crazy about this girl, and you seem to be trying to talking yourself into loving her and marrying her.  Don't do it.  Just let her go so she can find someone who really wants and desires her.

austintime

@ _io and Louise - I'm sure she would be surprised. For reasons outlined below, this was kind of my weakest case for her.

@ JellyBean, "you were faithful to some religious tradition that forbids premarital sex?" - yep.

@ JimDawg - well, the world in general may have too few lawyers - Afghanistan could use more real lawyers - but the US indubitably has too many. ;-) So thanks. 

Thanks to all for your helpful comments. The consensus seems to be, "She sounds good, but you sound apathetic."

I'm actually leaning toward going for it, now. It's true this post was an expression of doubt. One reason for that doubt is that I just discovered the Red Pill mentality, which implies certain disadvantages to marriage - actually disadvantages to long-term relationships in general. But I think I'm over that now - I can work with those disadvantages. MMSL(to my mind) is a way of hacking our natural polygamy/hypergamy to make marriage better. 

She and I haven't talked much over the last week. And I really miss her. I'm going a little crazy. 

Could I, armed with Red Pill knowledge and practice, be with better-looking women? Sure, but not by much (and as x1134 said, the grass will look greener eventually no matter who I wind up with). Who do I want to be the mother of my children, build a lifestyle with, a career with? That'd be her. 

We'll have another in-depth conversation about kids and passion in life. Then I think we'll be good. Thanks again, everybody. 

Hipster_Hick

austintime said: I just discovered the Red Pill mentality, which implies certain disadvantages to marriage

Those disadvantages sit on the back burner when you know that you want to have a large family.  Just go in with both eyes open and your game always on.  Kids are worth it.