Divorce Papers Filled Out - Need Help With My Map

Hi,
New to MMSL forum though I have been getting the emails for a few months. Finally joined the forum to see if I can turn my life around and if I can save my marriage and family in the process.

I am your typical nice, i.e. beta guy. Not enough Alpha going on and my wife has, you guessed it 'fallen out of love with me.' I am a member of another forum where I have learned much in how I act towards her and I have set down many more limits but it has not moved her one inch. I think I now see why this is.

I am about 40 pounds overweight and currently unemployed. I am no lazy slacker and in fact have had jobs where I was making a very good salary and was able to take care of all of us. When we met, I was also a volunteer fireman so that, combined with my great job gave me enough alpha to balance my natural beta.

We have not slept in the same bed for 15 months had sex once during this time and were stuck until about 3 weeks ago where she presented me with divorce papers in front of a therapist we usually see separately. Since then she has made no move to file them. I am fine with this if this is what she wants, but I know she doesn't.

I truly believe, after reading more on MMSL the past few days that I can spark that love in her again, while maintaining my beta and just upping the alpha. 

But I need some help! How does this plan sound?

No more TV nights feeling sorry for myself.
I am doing all I can to find a job and I feel that something is close, but I also write in my spare time so I will begin focusing on that again instead of playing poor me while vegging in front of the TV most nights.
Exercise EVERY day!
Eat more healthy.
Continue setting limits when she behaves in a way that is demeaning towards me or the kids.
Stop her when her behavior is having a harmful effect on the relationship. I know it is kind of too late here but perhaps if I start pointing things out, a level of respect can be reestablished.

What do you think? Any other suggestions to help me with my MAP?

Even if she files tomorrow, I now understand that I can't keep falling back into these bad habits that have led me to this place so I really want a good MAP to make me a better more balanced Alpha/Beta male who can feel good about himself again and attract someone amazing into my life. I really hope it will be my wife, but if not, I know I need to do this anyway.

Thanks for any assistance!

Comments

  • justsomeguyjustsomeguy San Francisco. Silver Member Posts: 213
    Lose weight & get a job are fundamental.

    You've been in therapy regularly. I'd be willing to bet she's brought something up in that which you've done nothing about. What is it?
    Templar
  • needmorealphaneedmorealpha Member Posts: 9
    I will have a job soon. I can feel it. I have no fewer than 3 companies interested and another interview in Monday.

    We have been seeing the same therapist, but not together except for 2 times when we needed to discuss how we would move forward. She is very quiet during these sessions. At one point she said, I could make a long list of things he would need to change but it is too late.

    Later I confronted her on this and in a calm and civil tone asked her if she really thought I was the only one who needed to change. Her response was that was not what she meant. It is however, what she said and in subsequent meetings with my therapist, I even asked her if wife has said something specific I need to change. She replied no.

    During a recent conversation I asked what I had done to her to make her want to divorce and split up our family? She admitted that I had done nothing on purpose to hurt her. It was things like when we moved to her country I didn't do enough to learn the language and that I depend on my family too much. One of the reasons she fell in love with me is that she said I would be the worlds best father, now my love and devotion for my family is seen as a negative.

    I understand now that the things men do, even if it is not directed at our women affect them anyway.

    One of her needs she says is that I need to take better care of the house. I do allot around the house and it is in good shape. Her parents spend basically all of their spare time cleaning and fixing their house so this is an area I get negative marks on undeservedly I feel. I am sure I could do more, but with three kids under the age of 12, spending time with them is a priority and as I said, the house is in good shape.

    Am I missing something?
  • needmorealphaneedmorealpha Member Posts: 9
    She had an EA with another man about 3.5 years ago. That was my wake up call to make some major changes and I have come A LONG way since then, but I did not improve my Alpha until about a year ago when I found another group which eventually pointed me here.

    While I can't rule it out 100% and I am doing everything that I can to not bury my head in the sand, I do not think she is involved in any way with another man at this point.

    Yes, I have heard all of the typical talk from her. She needs to work on herself, she just wants to be friends, she doesn't believe we can love again and so on and that is why I feel that I need to put this MAP into play NOW.

    In another support group I belong to, we talk about that we take this road for us and if it ends up having a positive effect on our wives, then great, but she does need to make a choice at some point no matter how great a man we become.

    I believe my wife sees only the negative I do and running the MAP will either give her a reason to change that view, or it will make me see that I have indeed done all that I can and I can finally be OK with the fact that this relationship is over.
  • needmorealphaneedmorealpha Member Posts: 9
    Hello Serenity,
    I have downloaded the book and will do the triage now.
    Serenity
  • Hipster_HickHipster_Hick A little of this, a little of that. I get aroundSilver Member Posts: 447
    needmorealpha said:  She had an EA with another man about 3.5 years ago.
    ..and that's why you need to answer the triage questions and get it all out there.  Otherwise you get bad advice based on an incomplete picture.
    -----------------
    No, I don't go cow-tipping.  It's too mainstream...
  • needmorealphaneedmorealpha Member Posts: 9
    I have done my story in the introduce yourself section after reading through the triage.

    Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, it appears that the issue is mostly due to my lack of Alpha.

    That's why I'm here.
  • MrHappyMrHappy Member Posts: 35
    You know what you need to do, so do it.  If you notice in your first message, everything you are doing has really nothing to do with her.  Do all that for YOURSELF.  Doesn't matter what she wants to do.  Either she will notice and enjoy the better you or someone else will.  It will take time, so don't expect anything immediately and expect some push back from her.  You need to run the house.  If she acts up treat her like the little girl she is being.
  • needmorealphaneedmorealpha Member Posts: 9

    I am not seeking divorce advice. I have spoken to 2 lawyers and I know exactly what my rights are and what either of us can do. I am also involved in a local mans support group who has given me lots of great advice on that end.

     

    IMO the failure of this marriage is mainly because I have been too beta in the past. I have come a LONG way from that but I feel that I needed to step up my game even more. If saving the marriage was an effect of that, great, but I AM doing this for me. I came here seeking advice on getting together a plan to improve my Alpha skills so that it becomes a part of who I am. I can read about it and ‘know’ it to a high level of understanding but I have had trouble enacting it.

     

    As for your assumption that me saying I don’t want a divorce but that I am OK if she does is some kind of beta trait, I guess I need to spell it out.

     

    She is a big girl and capable of her own decisions. If she wants to go forward and file the papers, I will not stop her. I have been clingy and needy in the past and tried to have heavy conversations to talk her out of the direction she has taken. Totally counter productive which is why I don't do it anymore. Now when she brings divorce up, I simply tell her that I don’t believe in divorce except in extreme cases but if that’s what she wants, she is free to pursue that avenue on her own. The me not believing in divorce is where me not wanting one comes in. The papers she showed me 3 weeks ago are still sitting in her room with her name and address and nothing else filled in.

     

    So, your opinion of wishy washy in my mind is the exact opposite. I am no longer trying to cling on to a woman who has chosen this path. Could I do this better? Probably, but I am steadfast in my frame at this point.

     

    As for me mind reading, I guess I will have to spell this out as well. She told me 2 weeks prior to her showing me the papers that she still had hope and still wanted us to work out. She hasn’t told her mom, the one person she confides in the most. I asked her why not and she said she was not sure this was what she really wanted. I hope this clears up my psychic abilities.

     

    I need to say that I appreciate anyone taking the time to read my story and offer me help. I do not mind criticism or a kick in the ass when it is deserved. I am a big boy and I take responsibility for my actions and for my part in ruining what once was a great marriage. To me it seemed as if you decided to dump on the newby and make a ton of assumptions after I laid it out there in order to make myself a better man. I don’t know you nor have I read any of your other posts to see how you treat others, but if this is the way you do it, you should probably stop doing it because in all honesty, you suck at it. I would have thought that after more than 2400 posts you would have been a little better. 

  • NotelracNotelrac Member Posts: 3,517
    edited March 2013
    if this is the way you do it, you should probably stop doing it because in all honesty, you suck at it.
    I'll start by saying, "Keep pushing back on people who feel are dumping on you."  Part of your dialing back the beta and becoming a better person will involve setting appropriate boundaries between yourself and what other people say to you.  A lot of people posting here are in denial about their circumstances.  I take the role of asking hard and confrontational questions.  For what it's worth, five other forum members agreed with my post. 

    On the one hand, you are way ahead of most posters in that you have taken the steps of getting legal advice and joining a local support group.  On the other hand, what you have described is a serious situation and your posting glossed over your own personal responsibility.  

    I went and read your intro post and have the following better-targeted advice.  It'll get more applicable after you read the PDF orientation booklet and answer the questions there. 

    For example -- you are making an affirmative claim that you will be employed soon.  What is your track record on making statements like this to your wife, and then following through?  Do you have a history of disappointing her?

    she started seeing a therapist who told her to stop having sex with me.
    This is a Big Deal.  Maybe therapists do things differently in Sweden than in the US.  I'm surprised that you were not given specific instructions on how to help your wife heal.  (And did you only hear this from your wife?  Because it sounds like a great excuse for her to stop having sex with you.)

    With respect to "wishywashy"... I respect your clarification, but I will continue to push back on you with the following argument:
    Your wife may be waiting for you to demonstrate that you are going to fight for her to stay in the marriage
    In other words, this may be the wrong time to demonstrate "outcome independence" with respect to her bringing up the D-word.  A marriage without sex, a marriage where the spouses have been sleeping apart for more than a year is a marriage in trouble.

    I'll repeat two crucial questions:
    1.  What was the therapist's response in the session to your wife presenting the papers?
    2.  What are the terms in the divorce papers?

     

    hopingformoreTemplarChanged_ManDrBeta
  • here2playhere2play Member Posts: 716

    As for your assumption that me saying I don’t want a divorce but that I am OK if she does is some kind of beta trait, I guess I need to spell it out.<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

     

    She is a big girl and capable of her own decisions. If she wants to go forward and file the papers, I will not stop her. I have been clingy and needy in the past and tried to have heavy conversations to talk her out of the direction she has taken. Totally counter productive which is why I don't do it anymore. Now when she brings divorce up, I simply tell her that I don’t believe in divorce except in extreme cases but if that’s what she wants, she is free to pursue that avenue on her own. The me not believing in divorce is where me not wanting one comes in. The papers she showed me 3 weeks ago are still sitting in her room with her name and address and nothing else filled in.

     

    So, your opinion of wishy washy in my mind is the exact opposite. I am no longer trying to cling on to a woman who has chosen this path. Could I do this better? Probably, but I am steadfast in my frame at this point.

     .

     

     

    I'm not sure what @Notelrac is telling you is soaking in to you yet.  I'll try to reword it a bit and see if that helps.

    Let's not confuse 'beta' with weakness, ineptness, passiveness, lack of initiation or inaction.   Beta is certain traits and behaviors that provide, comfort, support, security etc etc.     It is NOT weakness or ineptitude. 

    When you say that you do not believe in divorce and that you do not want a divorce but you will sit by and let her divorce you without a fight, that is not alpha or outcome independance or lack of clingyness...IT IS WEAKNESS, PASSIVENESS, INACTION AND ALLOWING OTHERS TO WALK ON YOU AND DICTATE THEIR TERMS TO YOU. 

    Not standing up for your beliefs and self-interests is WEAKNESS. 

    Weakness, passivity and inaction are very UNATTRACTIVE AND UNDESIRABLE traits.  

    What has caused her to lose attraction and desire for you has been your lack of initiative, lack of action and lack of standing up for your own beliefs and self-interests over the years. 

    You can provide a lot of good beta and provide her with comfort, trust, security etc but there is a good chance that your passivity and lack of initiative and lack of taking action to better your life and to stand up for yourself have come off as simply being weak and lazy.

    She is giving you an opportunity to step up the plate here and she is offering it on a silver platter.  If you continue with this passive inaction she WILL divorce you and move on and she will do it very soon.  But if you stand up for yourself and start taking definitive action to improve your situation and to save your marriage you do have a chance at the moment, but that window of opportunity is closing fast.

    hopingformoreTemplarredheaded_woman
  • TemplarTemplar WashingtonSilver Member Posts: 3,371
    The hard part about "fixing" a marriage and ourselves is that we think we know the answer and the way to get there after reading a book/website or whatever.
    Here is why it is hard. The same thought patterns and problem solving skills that got you into the problem are going to be applied to get you out, but using the advice. Most people are not good enough at self and relational analysis to truly find where the most significant problems lie. Nor any more truly understanding of what our actions do to the relationship and ourselves. We are all excited when we read about Alpha Beta and are quick to apply one or the other in broad strokes to ourselves "knowing" that we merely need to "up" the other trait and boom! the marriage is saved.
    With the book, alone, you will be helped. BUT you have to be completely honest with yourself in a way that most people aren't. When people here, including @Notelrac (who is TRULY very helpful in his no-holds-barred honesty, insightfulness and logical thought patterns) sound like they are coming off as quite harsh, it is tough love. This isn't their first rodeo. THEY ARE TRULY trying to help you.
    willieBastuna
  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,583
    edited August 2013
    As for notelrac, he does come off harsh.  I've had to hold up from posting nastygrams several times to things he says.  I'm slowly figuring him out. He does have a habit of picking up on things others miss or are too conflict avoidant to ask.  Think of it as an excercise in maintaining frame. :-)

    I'll leave the main discussion to the more experienced people here but I do have a question and a suggestion. 

    You say your 40lbs overweight.  How long has this been true?  Have you lost any of it in the past year?

    I would highly recommend dropping weight fast.  When I got my wake up call, I dropped 30lbs in about 2 months.  It's not that hard once you internalize how critical it is.  Cut your calories way back and up the excercise. I could lose 5lbs a week. It is not goin to fix your problems by itself. But if you drop weight fast it is a visible, tangible change that your wife can see. It's one of the best ways to show action fast. And it doesn't sound like you have a long time to wait here. It will also have an enormous effect on your own self image and confidence. 
    neen
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