Knowledge + frustration = lots of testing?

lilac

I've started noticing a pattern in myself lately. 

First, a little context: my H and I never really got into 911 territory in our marriage. Rather, I realized we were headed in the wrong direction and developing some bad habits (betatization, me in the Captain's chair, etc.). I found MMSL and suddenly had a context and terminology for what had just been a general feeling before. H and I have both read the Primer and are making progress.

So now, I find that I'm much more sensitive to things that I ignored in the past. When he does something beta, or misses an opportunity to be alpha, I can identify it and notice that I'm getting turned off.

This is compounded by the frustration I feel about not being able to do anything about it. I know MAPping is a process and it needs to be self-driven and me pointing out every time he's overly beta isn't going to help anything. In fact, my major contribution needs to be getting out of the Captain's chair and taking a step back.

As I result I find myself shit testing way more than I think I did before MMSL. I think it's because I don't want him to be comfortable in his ways or stop his progress.

But it makes me feel like a jerk every time I realize what's happening. Has anyone else experienced this? Any advice?

neen

Oh yeah...I have a little graph in my mind where I keep score.....there was a foot odor thread the other day that got me all jazzed up. So, out of the blue, I asked him for a foot rub the other night, he just smirked AND we got into a big fight.

SugarAndSpice

I'm struggling with exactly the same issues. @steu2817 has great advice to deal with your responses. One of the things he talks about is playfulness and patience in your responses. It's great advice. Let me see if I can find the thread for you.

SugarAndSpice

Here's a thread I had started a little while ago that has lots of good information in it from steu2817:

http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/4706/conversations-with-the-red-pill/p1

lilac

Thank you so much ladies! I'm trying to ramp up the playfulness, but my patience DEFINITELY needs work. 

Also, I don't want to respond to his over beta-ness with playfulness. I feel like that sends the wrong message. How should I respond when he's being (as we call it) "squishy"?

neen

Not sure,mine's not that squishy....workin on it.

Matt266

Why don't you say something or some word that brings it to his attention?  ie. BETA

I say this because sometimes it's only through looking back and thinking about something that I realize, oh, I was being beta there and if I would have just thrown in some alpha I could have pushed through.

My point is if you bring it into the light it may help him to begin to recognize it and once he recognizes it he'll be able to fix it much more easily for future encounters.  I bet by doing this you'll notice you say BETA much less often as time progresses.  After all, you both are open about this and on the same page so use that to your advantage.  You can even approach the BETA shout out with teasing frame.

SugarAndSpice

lilac said:

Thank you so much ladies! I'm trying to ramp up the playfulness, but my patience DEFINITELY needs work. 

Also, I don't want to respond to his over beta-ness with playfulness. I feel like that sends the wrong message. How should I respond when he's being (as we call it) "squishy"?

I've seen good advice from @Serenity on this:

My husband was exactly like this.  What helped the most was doing what steu2817 said. For a week or so I exaggerated every thing I asked him to do.  "Get in the kitchen and get me a drink NOW." And sometimes I would smack him on the butt.  It was so funny. 

It ticked him off enough that he would really alpha up on me.

This was after he read the Primer so he understood the core concepts. I'm not sure if this would be effective with a man who didn't understand the whole concept of being a Captain.

lilac

@BrokenHearted -- yes! I remember this thread, thank you for reminding me.

Amplifying just feels like I'm being a condescending jerk though. It seems like I'm saying: "Look how much I have to dumb this down for you."At this point it seems like that just causes him to be more beta. Especially when I point out that he's being beta, @Matt266. He gets frustrated and insecure and goes back to old habits. Saying "I'm sorry, I'll do better next time." which just makes it worse!

lilac

Looking back at my original post, my real question is: does it sometimes get worse before it gets better? Does knowledge of the red pill make you see things you didn't see before, which increases the frustration while you try to improve?

Matt266

Matt266 said:

You can even approach the BETA shout out with teasing frame.

steu2817 said:

You're not being playful enough. It's needs to be a game. If he gets even more beta, make fun of him. Ask him if he's just going to sit there and take shit from a girl. PLAYFULLY!

Agreed!

And show him this thread so he sees where you're coming from.

lilac

Is there a thread with some examples of playfully challenging his beta moves? Does anyone have any more examples? Most of my playful behavior is sexy, foreplay stuff, so I'm having trouble imagining how to playfully push him to be alpha.

SugarAndSpice

lilac said:

Looking back at my original post, my real question is: does it sometimes get worse before it gets better? Does knowledge of the red pill make you see things you didn't see before, which increases the frustration while you try to improve?

Yes, absolutely, 100% true from my perspective. I'm struggling with this right now and @steu2817's advice about playfulness is a really vital tool in your toolbox.

The one other thing that I took away from my thread from steu2817 was that your husband has to build his own frame, you can't do it for him otherwise it'll be your frame, not his.

And last but not least, wise words from @Serenity: "It's a marathon, not a sprint". It took me a while to absorb that.

Serenity

@lilac ; I honestly don't know how much progress you'll see from him unless you can get him to read the Primer.  This stuff is just conditioned into these 'nice guys' and it takes a major jolt for them to see it's a problem.  Also get him to read NMMNG.   Life changing for my husband.

lilac

@Serenity - he has read the primer and even posted on the forum recently (yay!)

That was our problem originally though. Since I'd read the primer and he hadn't I was feeding him advice, basically building "my" frame instead of letting him build his own. Now that he's read the primer, I think I need to set back and let him build his own frame. Even if it takes longer than I would like!

Serenity

@lilac ; That's great.  What's his handle here?

Next step for him....NMMNG. Very helpful.

lilac

@Serenity - so this brings up an excellent question (maybe this should be in another thread). H and I have discussed how we handle the forums as a couple and whether we should do a formal introduction post. He brought up an interesting point, which is whether we will get more objective feedback if people don't know we're a couple. I can see both sides of this. On the one hand it would be great for people to hear both sides, but I also see the benefit of avoiding "he said she said" and keeping our threads and advice separate.

I've read the forum manual, but I'm interested to hear people's opinions.

Serenity

hmmmm......I can see your husband's point, but @Athol_Kay really advises that couples talk to each other first before they post something, particularly if it's controversial.

I personally have seen quite a few blow-ups here when a spouse posts something that the other spouse finds too private to share. In one case, it caused (possibly) irreparable damage, and months later they're still dealing with the fall-out.

My own husband has had some resentment about some things I've posted in the past. It's tricky.

lilac said:

@Serenity - so this brings up an excellent question (maybe this should be in another thread). H and I have discussed how we handle the forums as a couple and whether we should do a formal introduction post. He brought up an interesting point, which is whether we will get more objective feedback if people don't know we're a couple. I can see both sides of this. On the one hand it would be great for people to hear both sides, but I also see the benefit of avoiding "he said she said" and keeping our threads and advice separate.

I've read the forum manual, but I'm interested to hear people's opinions.

neen

You really should  disclose you spouses' ID.....you all could get conflicting advice! Honestly,

spouses being on the forum is nothin but trouble.

lilac

@Serenity - we don't plan on keeping our posts secret. He can read everything I write and vice versa. But we would respect each other's threads and not post. The added bonus to this is that I would go to him if I was concerned about something written on the forum, rather than writing an angry retort that could spiral into a blowup.

@neen - what do you mean nothing but trouble? Do you think it would be better for me to bow out of the forum and leave it as a place for my husband? I've certainly considered it. 

I'm concerned more about myself than him, actually. The guys can give each other some really harsh advice about their wives' behavior (not undeservedly, of course). I worry that I would get defensive and try to explain myself, and really detract from the point of the thread - which is to advise H on how to handle these situations.

neen

Well, it's like Sernity said.......we've had lots of couples fighting on the forum, it's uncomfortable for the

rest of us.  You want to help and then you wonder what happens when they click off. I don't

see an upside.....sorry.  I've been on the forum since it began.