Fat Mamas

AnonJohn

@missusp

thanks for that!

from the article:

"By now, a clear pattern is emerging: Diabetes is spreading like a virus across the south and Appalachia, across regions known for weak economies. The map is perhaps the most bracing confirmation possible that low incomes and diabetes develop in lockstep."

Which, is exactly what I've been saying all along.  it tracks clearly to geographic regions and socioeconomic status.

LovelyLauren

"You've spent hours surfing the internet."

And that's wonderful, because you HAVE internet. When I taught in a low-income school, the majority of my students did not have computers in their home and were on free or reduced school lunches and sometimes breakfasts too that were provided by the school. They weren't having healthy choices modelled for them. 

Linanati

@LovelyLauren

I don't buy that fat people simply don't know how to eat healthy.  There's information on the topic all over the place and easily accessible.  Anyone with the slightest desire to feed their family healthy meals can get hold of the information necessary to do so.

The fat women I saw at the school have 2 grocery stores close by.  They also clearly have access to transportation.  The nearest fast food place is 20 minutes away, while 2 grocery stores are 5 - 10 minutes away.  Even with 40 minutes of travel time involved, they'd rather get fast food than make the effort to cook.

The lentil soup I linked to above takes me, at most, 30 minutes to put together.  I also have another soup I make that takes less than 30 minutes.  It takes 5 minutes to scrub potatoes to pop in the oven to go with the soup.  It takes them 45 minutes to bake.  I have a quick vegetarian chili recipe that takes less than 30 minutes to make. 

Do you see what these dishes all have in common?  They take less time than the 40 minutes travel time to go get fast food.  Well, except the potatoes, but you more than make up for the extra 10 minutes in the time it takes to get the kids out the door and loaded in the car, then unloaded and back in the house when you get home.  Even when we lived closer to fast food places, it still seemed like it took at least close to 30 minutes to get there, complete the whole process, and get back home.  That's assuming we brought the food home instead of eating it there.

Sure, it takes extra time to clean up the dirty dishes afterwards, but if you can't take that little bit of time and effort in order to give your family healthy meals, you shouldn't have had kids.  You've got other dirty dishes anyway (unless you never eat or drink anything at home, which would be odd), so the extra ones from a healthy meal aren't going to be that much more effort anyway.

Danceny

The "food deserts" hypothesis was actually refuted (challenged?) by a subsequent study.  It's just more Marxist determination to look absolutely everywhere but the real source of the problem.  There's nothing inherently unhealthy about frozen and canned foods; they freeze and can very good vegetables, fruits, beans, etc.  Wal-Mart has a great selection of very cheap veggies canned in nothing but water, not even added salt.  Rice and beans and oats are dirt cheap and simple to prepare.

And I don't believe for a second that it's ignorance.  A dumb girl in the ghetto may not know omega-6 from fructose, but she knows that Coke and Milky Ways are fattening and that carrots and apples aren't.  We need to acknowledge that the vast majority of Americans have an eating disorder -- a life-destroying addiction.

I have fat friends, and I've talked with several in-depth about their knowledge and feelings and behaviors with respect to diet.  They know exactly the bad choices they're making.  And I've been overweight myself.  It's a true addictive process.

The longer-term problem, at which @CaptVere hinted, is that we have a welfare state that selectively breeds (and imports) people of low intelligence and low conscientiousness.  These personality traits are at least 50% heritable.  A lot of people are genetically incapable of controlling their impulses, planning for the future, etc.  The reason it clusters with "socioeconomic status" is that the same personality traits that make you fat also make you poor.

Linanati

@LovelyLauren

They have access to the internet at the public library, even if they don't have it at home.  Every time I go in the library, there are multiple people in there using the computers and all of them seem to be surfing the web.

Rico

How long ago was that?  Modern technology's cost of entry keeps dropping at a precipitous rate. There's free internet access at most public libraries.  The cost of smartphones plus pay as you go plans have brought 24/7 access to the internet within the reach of those below the poverty line as well.

I don't think anyone is saying it's a completely level playing field.  But if something is important to you, you find a way to make it happen.  Well over half of America is overweight or obese - I don't think lack of knowledge is the problem for the vast majority of us.

LovelyLauren said:

"You've spent hours surfing the internet."

And that's wonderful, because you HAVE internet. When I taught in a low-income school, the majority of my students did not have computers in their home and were on free or reduced school lunches and sometimes breakfasts too that were provided by the school. They weren't having healthy choices modelled for them. 

Linanati

Danceny said:

The reason it clusters with "socioeconomic status" is that the same personality traits that make you fat also make you poor.

Exactly.  Our culture doesn't emphasize self-control, so people who are naturally lacking in that area aren't being pushed to develop whatever amount of self-control they can.  To make matters worse, poor choices are excused.  Oh, they live in a food desert, they don't have transportation (bull), they don't know any better, and so on and so forth.

Linanati

@MissusP

Frequent sex with your spouse is healthy.  Stuffing your face and becoming a landwhale is not.

Danceny

@MissusP:  Bad analogy.  Junk food is more like hardcore porn or sex toys (or drugs) -- it's supraphysiological stimulation.  Ice cream, for example, is an extraordinary technological product, not a food, that pushes multiple pleasure buttons way harder than any true food the human brain evolved on.  Ice cream is a drug.  Think of cocaine -- the Incas used to go around chewing on coca leaves and getting a mild buzz -- a benign, mild addiction.  Grind up the leaves and make a purified powder, and now you've got something life-destroying.

I've been taking a more "moderate" approach lately, and guess what?  I'm getting fat again.

AnonJohn

apparently i'm predisposed to being fat.  if i dont focus on it, i end up fat.

so, i focus on not being fat and miraculously, i'm not fat.

Chimpy

AnonJohn said:

apparently i'm predisposed to being fat.  if i dont focus on it, i end up fat.

so, i focus on not being fat and miraculously, i'm not fat.

Yeah its like the old saying the harder I work the luckier I get.

But some people have to work more or less hard. I gave up smoking 20 years ago, just chucked my bacca away and haven't had onse since and it's never bothered me. But I know loads of blokes what struggle like hell to stay off and never have a day go by without wanting a smoke even after years. For me it was a piece of piss and don't take no effort at all hardly but to others its constant neverending fight what they can never win and effects there life every day.

shanna_banana

I doubt I will say anything in influence MissusP or anyone else of the "They're predisposed/it's not their fault" camp.

But I will offer this as my personal experience:

     I grew up poor. (Dad was a starving artist who didn't want a 9-5). My mother did not cook.
Much to my mother's middle-class horror, we were on food stamps for a time.
I recall you could not buy anything junk-foodish with your food stamps at that time.  Now apparently you can buy Cheetos and Big Red, based on the carts I've seen at Walmart where people are using their Lone Star Card (foodstamp card in Texas.)

No one taught me about nutrition. They used to put coca-cola in my baby bottles. I ate donuts for breakfast almost my whole childhood. The rest was hot dogs and spaghettios.
At 16 I got an apartment with my sister and decided I needed to learn how to cook.
There was no internet. I bought cookbooks from thrift stores and asked other people's mom's questions.
MANY of the women in my family are heavy. I got heavy during my pregnancy when I ate haphazardly.
     So, since I was poor and came from a family that contained fat and diabetic people- wouldn't that qualify me as pre-disposed?

     My two women friends that are obese both have nicer cars and houses than mine. Both have degrees from Universities while I do not. I'm fairly certain their husband's annual incomes are equal or higher than ours. Neither of them cook. When asked why, one says "I'm just not a Betty Crocker. It's not my thing." the other says, "My kids only like the taste of (fast food places) and they refuse to eat my cooking.)

At the water park over the weekend, there were thousands of fat families. The water park is expensive at $25 a ticket, so I doubt any of them were severely impoverished. It is also in a rural area with no public transport, so they all had cars to drive there.

I actually think it's MORE kind to have the attitude towards others of, "You don't have to be fat. You can have some control over this and change your life if you want to," than it is to say "You are genetically predisposed to be fat and no matter what, you are stuck here. Poor you."

BrianC

One of the things that the Red Pill starts to teach, but never really calls to light is the idea of radical acceptance.  That nothing is either entirely out of your hands, nor are you entirely without fault in negative situations in your life.  If you wish to change them, the onus is on focusing what you can control, and taking responsibility to change those things in the direction you wish to see change.

I would say, from a position of radical acceptance, we don't actually need to understand how much responsibility belongs to genetics, how much to culture, how much to economics, and how much to personal habit.  Nor should we care.  The only thing that matters is our willingness to accept, take responsibility, and adjust as much as we can.

So the deficit is not in our culture's attitudes, genetics, or what it does or does not provide.  It is in accountability.

@Shanna_banana illustrates this perfectly in her last post... poverty and its incumbent may have been an obstacle, but it was willingness to take responsibility for nutrition that made or broke her weight.

Jacquie

BrianC said:

One of the things that the Red Pill starts to teach, but never really calls to light is the idea of radical acceptance.  That nothing is either entirely out of your hands, nor are you entirely without fault in negative situations in your life.  If you wish to change them, the onus is on focusing what you can control, and taking responsibility to change those things in the direction you wish to see change.

I would say, from a position of radical acceptance, we don't actually need to understand how much responsibility belongs to genetics, how much to culture, how much to economics, and how much to personal habit.  Nor should we care.  The only thing that matters is our willingness to accept, take responsibility, and adjust as much as we can.

So the deficit is not in our culture's attitudes, genetics, or what it does or does not provide.  It is in accountability.

This is it. I know it is. I had to make the choice to do something about my health by losing weight and getting fit. I didn't choose fad diets, or surgery or medication, I started picking up the weights and moving. I turned off the t.v. and got off my...sofa. I cut the garbage out of my diet and eat healthy foods.

When the weight loss was getting really noticeable I got comments about how good I looked. The usual question about how did I take off the weight was asked so I tell them, which is usually followed by the fallen face. Most people are looking for me to tell them about a magic, overnight answer. They don't want to hear that it took me time and effort to get to where I am. And usually the larger the person I talk to the more excuses they have about why they can't do that or how much their health problems prevent them from exercising. It took me alot of years to finally make a decision to do something and I am embarassed that my husband had to deal with such a large wife for so many years, but as I look back, there isn't one excuse I made in all that time that actually held any water as to why I could not have done this sooner.

What motivates me now is that when my husband and I began MMSL and we talked honestly about everything in our relationship he told me point blank, "I want you to be smaller than me. I want you to lose the weight. I want you fit." Heck, he wants to hike a good portion of the Appalachian Trail if not all of it, and he wants me with him. For me, that's enough accountability. I plan to be with him when he goes.

BrianC-- thank you for the book recommendation. I'll be checking it out.

LL80

@Jacquie, so true on people asking you how you did it and then the disappointed looks when you tell them that you just started eating healthy and exercising.  I was definitely one of those, "I 'can't'" people until I finally grew up and realized that it was, in fact, fully within my control and completely my responsibility.  It's really simple, but it's not easy.  Most people KNOW what to do, they are just unwilling to do the work.  I used to tell people I could "never" run even 5 miles, and now I do that and much more without thinking about it.  It makes it difficult though not to be frustrated by people who make all of the excuses.  But I can relate, too, because I've been in that place where I felt hopeless and it's hard to see that you can get there. 

I do realize I need to adapt this same sort of mentality to other aspects of my life, but I at least figured it out for this one thing!

BrianC

@Jacquie - my pleasure!

I is all about choices, awareness, and perspective.  Not even "willpower" really enters into it, except when you are doubting that choice.

My battle with weight has been long and miserable.  I have been obese most of my life.  Last year I chose to trim as much off as I possibly could, so I started eating paleo, waling, lifting weights, and fencing.  It is slooow going.  But I have enough muscle on my arms now that I am splitting the sleeves of my older tee shirts (what a great way to get rid of a ratty old wardrobe!).  if I can keep focused and keep my trajectory I will get there.

It also means being realistic.  I am built like an NFL player, I will always have a lot of raw mass. My shoulders alone force me into the big & tall shops even when my belly is out of the way.  Counting the kilograms of weight and comparing it to an ideal weight chart will never work for me, nor will clothing sizes.  I can't use normal measures or role models to get there.

Which means I am on my own, and I damn well better be disciplined!

Linanati

@Shanna_banana ; @LL80 ; @Jacquie ; @BrianC

You guys are a great example of how people can lose weight.  Or, in Shanna_banana's case, keep from getting fat, even with bad genes and a bad example from her family.  Genetics doesn't predetermine your weight.  It may make you predisposed to obesity, but your weight isn't beyond your control.

All four of you are an inspiration.  So is @Jane, who works so hard to keep her weight under control and lose those few extra pounds.

horseman

simple equation.
two...count em two oreos are 110 caleries. times 30 days a month equals 3300 caleries. a pound of body weight for a 180 lb man at 2000 caleries a day is 3500 caleries. so lets call it a pound a month. lets give half the months as good behaviour. we get six pounds per year times jk to grade 8 or ten years for SIXTY pounds.
So just two oreos every othe day over your 2000 calarie allotment, 1600 for women equals SixTy pounds over the kids public school career even if you gain nada pregnancy and post partum.

Scary huh???

Jane

@horseman : or encouraging...i only have to cut out a couple oreos every other day and i'll be fine....

Hamster_Free

I'm still in the process of re-setting my bad habits..I'm checking my diet, eliminating the crap, now focusing on portions, but working in an exercise routine is the hardest.  DH works an alternating schedule which makes setting a routine and sticking with it hard due to the kiddos--childcare at the gym doesn't start till 8am, but my goal is to have worked out and be in to work by 8am because evenings after work and school are too hectic, and even if I work physical activity in with my kiddos, they're still small enough that their pace isn't fast enough to seriously whittle some pounds offa mama.  I also prefer AM workouts because since the kiddos are still asleep, I'm not missing quality time with them, like I would in the evenings dropping them at childcare while I go work out.  I do it, but there are some serious guilt issues--I'm already losing 40 hours a week with them while I work; add on another hour-hour and a half a day for effective workouts, and I essentially have an hour and a half with my wee babes before they have to go to bed.  I don't want to go back to the romper room full time, but I do hate that someone else is getting so much of these precious years with them.  Yes, I could work out after 8:30 pm, after they've gone to bed, but half the time I pass out shortly thereafter.  GD hamsters and squirrels. 
The only thing working in my favor here is that I've always been curvacious (a very curvy and proportionate 5'7"175lbs when I graduated high school after lettering in swimming and dancing) to say the least, and wasn't significantly smaller than I am now when DH and I met and married.  DH still finds me hot (yes, I know I could be *way* hotter), but I'm really pushing the upper limits of my own discomfort zone and Will. Not. Get. Fatter. 
I've set a goal for doing a mini-Tri next spring, which will give me the cooler months to train and get over mental hurdles...but the scheduling is really killing me.  I WILL do it, though.  I'm way too cute to be this fluffy.