Just a beta trying to "man up"

chanwolfe

Hi, I would love to use my real name, but I have several people I know who visit the forums here and really don't want to out myself to them.  You can call me Lee.  I am in my early 30s and was recently introduced to MMSL and the manosphere by a friend.  My significant other is in her mid 20sI have reached my wits end about being in a sexless LTR.

I have been with my LTR for about 5 years now.  We met when I moved up to my new home and hit it off amazingly. The conversation was great, the sex was amazing, and then things started to change.  When I moved to where I am now, I was a live in nanny helping out a friend with her kids while she was going through a nasty divorce.  Not the most glorious job, but it was pretty good money and benefits.  My LTR was impressed that I was a "Manny" as she liked to call it.   She was a full time student, and her parents were paying for her apartment so she was closer to school. Sex at this point is amazing...3-4 times a week

Fast forward through 6 months of awesomeness....The friend I was working for ended up telling me that she couldn't afford to pay me anymore and that she wasn't going to be able to pay me for the last 4 weeks of work I did because her exhusband was fighting the divorce and for full custody of the kids.  I understood that, and figured with what I had saved up, it was the least I could do not to raise a huge fuss over it.)  My LTR was starting to have issues in school and was hiding this information from not only me, but her parents as well. Having moved away from everything I knew, and being a 24/6 live in nanny, I hadn't had time to make many very close friends or people I could count on.  So I turned to the LTR for a place to stay....Sex is still good here 2-3 times a week, not quiet as long of sessions however.

Between a year and a year and a half later, LTR has started working part time and going to school part time.  It took me about 4 months and all of my savings to find a job....  a part time job at a pizza place to help with expenses while I continued to look for better work.  Worked there for about 3 months before I was hired on as a 3rd shift cashier at a gas station.  During this time, I caught an instance of possible cheating where she referred to me as "the bum on the couch"  I addressed it, and she said it never went farther than talking. (Still bugs the hell out of me.)  Sex drops to once or twice a week here....feels more like pity sex than true intimacy.

Year 2, we decide that I should move out.  It takes me about 2 weeks to find a place that I could afford on my gas station clerk salary, and move out.  She comes over all the time, pretty much living at my place now.  Whenever I am home, she is there.  After about 6 months living there, she begs me to move back in....I do.  Sex here is almost non existent due to conflicting schedules....I was working 10p-8a and she was in class or at work from 10a-4p.  Being on third shift, I was a total asshole most days and just wanted to be left alone to sleep. Maybe 2-3 times a month.  LTR tells me that she has been battling depression for a while and going to a shrink about it since she was 14-15.

Year Three.  Moved back in and found a better job making about $2.50 more an hour and was a more normalized shift working retail.  She totally dropped out of school and started working full time.  We are both working retail now and our shifts line up some what better, but the sex still isnt there.  Gets worse....probably down to once a month at this point.  Most likely ovulation sex.

Year Four...the year I realized how crappy the relationship was....our lease was getting ready to expire, and she decides to tell me that she wants to move back home to save up her money and work on some issues she is having with herself.  I scramble to find a place to live....with less than a day left on the lease, I find a place.  Get moved in, get everything taken care of, and she starts showing up every day.  Even on days that she knows I am going to be at work all day, she would go to my place to "Get away from her parents".  She is providing no support at this time financially and is actually more of a burden as I am feeding 2 people more than I expected to be.  Sex is down to about once every 2-3 months at this point.  We have a discussion about it, and says that the reason we haven't been as intimate is because it hurts when we have sex.  Asked if she had been to a doctor about it, and she said no, she always forgets to ask when she is there.  Tell her to make sure she talks about it.  The year passes with me reminding her to ask the doctor and her always forgetting.

Year 5....I get stupid and let her talk me into moving back in together.  Sex at this point is non existent. Maybe once every 3-4 months.  I have given up trying to initiate as whenever I do, I get shot down.  She says that whenever I try to caress her or kiss her neck that it tickles.  I have tried romantic dates, expensive gifts, massages, etc.  We bought her a toy to try and use to help get her more turned on, and she has used it once to my knowledge.  We have had several major fights this past year over the lack of intimacy and her response is always, "You just grope me.  You don't ever try to seduce me.  You are never romantic with me and you just stay on the computer."   I have actually started considering cheating on her and looking at dating sites and talking to women trying to find my "2 in the kitty" as one of the other bloggers suggest.

I need help.  I love her and could see myself married to her, but not in this situation.  I will answer the triage questions to the best of my abilities in the next post.

Serenity

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

haniel

Stop thinking about marriage and cheating. you don't reward a non-sexual relationship with marriage and cheating is just a way of not directly dealing with your problems.

two in the kitty is what you do before an LTR not during.

chanwolfe

1.  As I said in my initial post, there is a history of depression.  To my knowledge, there has never been a prescription involved.  She has been on birth control the majority of the time since we met to help make sure she has a regular period.  Without BC, she will have a period once every 3-4 months.  She also says there is mild discomfort during and after sex, no matter how much foreplay or lube is involved, but either won't talk to the doctor about it, or never remembers to ask.  The only time she orgasms is during oral stimulation of her clitoris.

 

2.  I have improved my career standing 3 times in the last 5 years.  Each time getting better hours, more money, and better benefits.  Currently working a 7-4 job with weekends off.  I attend classes to better my resume each month to continue moving forward in my career.  I don't have serious debt, but I am working to rebuild my credit after my last relationship went south and left me owing a good deal of money.  We are both overweight, but I am working on loosing weight.  I've changed how much I eat, what I eat, and when I eat.

3.  Possible long term ignoring.  When I was unemployed for 4 months, I fell back into the habit of falling into a video game/movie/book to escape the fact I felt like a loser, and never really cut those habits back down to normal.  I go hang out with a group of friends 1 night a week, and play video games 3 nights a week (1 of which she works) with friends from out of state.  I work 40-45 hours a week unless something drastic happens and I need to be there more.  She works, comes home, and watches "girly drama shows" and piddles around on the computer.

4.  I don't think there is another man because she is either at work or home.  She doesn't have GNOs and the only friends she really has are her coworkers who are all much older than she is.  There has been a sign in the past of possible cheating, but it was nipped in the bud extremely hard, fast, and loud with the ultimatium that if it ever happens again, I am gone.

5.  The sex started to go downhill at the 6-12 month mark when I was struggling to get a good job and started to alienate myself from everyone.  At this point, we stopped communicating as much as well.  This is when she started saying that it hurt when we had sex no matter how much foreplay, lube we used or no matter how soft and gentle I tried to be.  Currently, she has added stress as she just took on a managerial role and the Area Manager is putting a lot of pressure on her.  

Six

The sex in the beginning was amazing.  Long sessions, multiple times a week and sometimes a day. 

chanwolfe

7.  I have been cheated on in my last 2 LTR.  I know this puts a stress on her because I have trust issues.  I came from a broken home where the norm was screaming, shouting, and throwing things.  I tend to avoid drama at all costs now that I am an adult...even if it means getting in my car and leaving for a few hours.   I do enjoy my video games/movies/books, but make sure that when she is home that I pay attention to her while I am doing other things.  

Also, I think I have allowed myself to slip into a EA with someone I met playing one of the online games I play.  We talk daily, and I feel more of a connection with her than i do with my SO.  I have never crossed a line and said anything I wouldn't say in front of my SO, but I think about the OW a lot, and find myself wishing I was with her instead of my SO.

She has an issue completing things.  She has dropped out of collage 32 credit hours shy of her degree, she paid $3200 for a program to get a degree in Medical Transcription, and has yet to complete it.  She spent $300 on Roseta stone software and can only say dog and pen in Spanish after having it a month.  

8.  I don't think there is a real leader anymore now that I have reached total frustration.  She is very indecisive and if I left choices up to her, nothing would ever get done.  I end up telling her what is going to happen out of sheer frustration at which she calls me mean, a jerk, an asshole, etc.

9.  The best times I can think of are the early relationship where we would lay in bed on a weekend morning and talk about "stuff" be it her school, our pasts, our hopes and dreams.  Or one of us would come home and we would sit and talk about our day and the things that bothered us, made us happy etc.  Neither of us are big on gifts or going out so there was never anything amazing there...well, except she got me a new coffeepot on my birthday last year.  Even when we are both off of work and sitting around and talking now, playing video games together, going to see a movie, etc it is great....but its not the same.

chanwolfe

haniel said:

Stop thinking about marriage and cheating. you don't reward a non-sexual relationship with marriage and cheating is just a way of not directly dealing with your problems.

two in the kitty is what you do before an LTR not during.

I am not thinking about marriage currently, but when I picture the relationship 10 years down the road, I see the potential for it.  And I have never physically cheated on any of my SO, and this is the first time I have ever even felt close to having an EA with someone while in a relationship.  My grandfather always told me, "IF they cheat WITH you, the will cheat ON you."

I have noticed however, that there are more women interested in me when I am in my element at a business meeting with vendors, and have had 2 waitresses tell me that when I get tired of my SO to come see them after telling them I am in a relationship.  

That being said, it actually makes me feel like an alpha man again to know that other women still find me physically and mentally attractive...even though I am overweight.  After pretty much 3.5 years of rejection by someone who tells you they love you, you start feeling like utter trash.

Notelrac

What do you want?

Notelrac

it hurts when we have sex.  Asked if she had been to a doctor about it, and she said no, she always forgets to ask when she is there.
In other words, a healthy sex life is not important to her.

The year passes with me reminding her to ask the doctor and her always forgetting.
In other words, a healthy sex life has not been not important to you.

Look.  Either she has a physical condition causing pain, or her body hates you and goes "Va-Clang!" every time you make a move on her.  Which one is more likely?

The snap judgement of this anonymous internet stranger is that you don't really love her and she doesn't really love you.  Instead you're two low-energy people who shacked up together and crawled into a nice little co-dependent hole.  She's trying and failing to find other things to do with her life, and you're trying to break through the co-dependent negative energy transfer between the two of you, by forming an EA with someone else.

_io

You should get the MAP book.  You have continued to raise your employment level, and that is commendable.  But there are several key areas in your life you are letting slide.  Until you address them, you will continue to have unsatisfactory relationships.  With this girl or with another, these things need to get handled.

The book will take you through the steps to get from point B to point A.

But for now, I'll tell you that she didn't forget to talk to the doctor.  She wants an excuse not to have sex with you, and this is the one she has settled upon.  

chanwolfe

Notelrac said:

What do you want?

To be 110% honest.  Right now, I don't know what I want, and that is causing me the most concern. I don't want to throw away another 5 years of my life to a failed relationship, but I don't want to be stuck in one that isn't going anywhere.  I DO NOT want a relationship like my parents had.

 I was given the Primer a year ago and started working on bettering myself.  I've been losing weight, I've been adding more alpha, I know I am tired of the lack of sex, her lack of desire to complete things she starts, and the lack of meaningful communication.  A generic "How was your day?" and then nothing for another 4-5 hours isn't cutting it anymore, and shouldn't have been cutting it for this long.

I look at my group of close personal friends and how awesome their relationships are, and talk to them about the issue and they say they can see it killing me slowly and that I should just kick her to the curb.  

_io

What are your relative SRs?  How much weight do you have to lose?  Were you both overweight at beginning of the relationship?

SignorePillolaRossa

chanwolfe said:

   I should just kick her to the curb.  

This, pretty much

You are fortunate to be unencumbered by kids or marriage

You should not expect anything to get better - things MIGHT get better in response to MAPing and an eventual A/B ultimatum, but they might not.

 

Keep MAPing for yourself and find someone better.

chanwolfe

_io said:

What are your relative SRs?  How much weight do you have to lose?  Were you both overweight at beginning of the relationship?

In my mind, we are probably equal if not me being just a single SR higher than her, possibly 2.

According to everything I am reading I need to drop about 180lbs to be my "ideal healthy body weight".  I know that isnt going to be a short term change, and it is slowly going down.  We were both overweight at the beginning of the relationship, but not as much as we are now.  I think I have put on 30-40lbs and she has put on 40-60lbs over the course of the relationship.  She has tried fad diets for the last 2 years and will drop 4-5lbs and then put it right back on..when I suggest we do a total lifestyle change she is all for it, and then next time I open the cabinet, it is full of junk food where she went to the grocery store while I was at work.

Also, I appreciate the discussion that Notelrac and _io are giving me.  It's hard to get this out, but I need to before it causes me serious issues to my sanity and physical health.  Especially from/to impartial 3rd parties that don't have anything to tie them to one side or the other.

Notelrac

I don't know what I want
Until you know what you want, you aren't going to get it.

I was given the Primer a year ago and started working
So you've been MAPping for 12 months.  You're going to be stuck in Phase 1 until you can express your needs.

Say the following statements out loud:
1.  I want back the same hot sex we used to have the first year.

2.  I want to live with her for the rest of my life.

3.  I want to be loved.

4.  I deserve to be loved.

5.  I deserve to have someone take care of me.

6.  I deserve to be happy.

Now, which ones made you feel ashamed?  Which ones made break down and cry?

chanwolfe

@notelrac That list is harsh....like ungodly harsh.  I was ashamed about #1, and #3-6 would have made me squall my eyes out if I was in private.

#2 was just meh.  And that bothers me.  I don't know if it is because of how frustrated I am right now, or how I truely feel.

Notelrac

That list is harsh....like ungodly harsh. 
Harsh-R-Us, that's me.

And... now at least you where to do your own personal psychological work (#1), and also what you want out of life (#3-6).

chanwolfe

I think I am more ashamed that I let it get as far as it has, than that I actually want hot, nasty, kinky sex.

I guess the biggest question for me is do I keep running the MAP in secret, or do I lay it out on the table and be tell her, "I'm changing for the better.  You can get with it or you can get out." (Not probably that blunt, but thats the gist of it.)

haniel

dont fret over spent cost

always run it in secret

JohnGrey

Yeah, if you tell her about the MAP, she'll shit-test you like crazy: "That thing you're doing isn't very alpha!" "I thought you were going to be more alpha?" etc. Just forget her for now. She's not bringing anything to the table anyway. You're not even getting laid. MAP for yourself. She'll either respond or get out and you'll replace her with a chick that WILL sex you because you'll be so awesome.

The_D_Word

chanwolfe said:

_io said:

What are your relative SRs?  How much weight do you have to lose?  Were you both overweight at beginning of the relationship?

In my mind, we are probably equal if not me being just a single SR higher than her, possibly 2.

According to everything I am reading I need to drop about 180lbs to be my "ideal healthy body weight".  I know that isnt going to be a short term change, and it is slowly going down.  We were both overweight at the beginning of the relationship, but not as much as we are now.  I think I have put on 30-40lbs and she has put on 40-60lbs over the course of the relationship.  She has tried fad diets for the last 2 years and will drop 4-5lbs and then put it right back on..when I suggest we do a total lifestyle change she is all for it, and then next time I open the cabinet, it is full of junk food where she went to the grocery store while I was at work.

Also, I appreciate the discussion that Notelrac and _io are giving me.  It's hard to get this out, but I need to before it causes me serious issues to my sanity and physical health.  Especially from/to impartial 3rd parties that don't have anything to tie them to one side or the other.

Get serious about dropping the weight, and not just for her/the relationship.  You already know it's bad for your health and it sounds like you're working on it.  Still, this much extra weight will kill you.  Get medival on yourself...I'm talking 2-a-day workouts and eating like you've got a magazine cover shoot to get ready for.  This will a) dramatically improve your health and energy level, b) seriously unbalance the relative SRs in your relationship, c) give you the confidence to make the necessary decisions about your life moving forward. 

Do not tolerate her filling the pantry with "fat pills".  Make a list of the food items you need to eat the way you know you need to and have her purchase those items when she shops.

zeroday

if the map was running for a year why do you have to lose 180 lbs. what kind of map has 3 nights of video games in it?




Map bro. Either she will fall in line, or freak. But it you are a contextual 2 you got plenty o room to go up on weight alone. don't make it about her. Princess Leia does not want to fuck Jabba. Make sure you talk to your doctor if you are losing weight fast.