Long time lurker and MAP backslider de-cloaking and triage.

try_red_pill

Forty seven year old, have been running the MAP for a while and occasionally lurking here. Started backsliding around February and some old problems re-surfaced, figured out I needed a kick in the pants.

Have read the primer, Mindful Attractiveness Plan and "How to answer do these pants make me look fat" for the record.

On to the triage:

"Medications, medical issues, birth control history and the all-purpose general physical health of both of you"

Me: Levitra for ED based on doctor telling me it is effective when taken with food (unlike viagra) and is less likely to cause priapism.

Her: Perimenopause, untreated.

Birth control: The pill until shortly after we were married, then diaphram for a few months, condoms since then. Did put pressure on me to have a vasectomy but I didn't feel that was a good thing to do. Had not been an issue since I discovered and explained the testosterone implications.

Structural Issues 

The only thing that comes to mind is when we met I was living in Europe and she was on the West Coast. I got a job on the East Coast as I felt it would be a better compromise than her moving to Europe she could not work there. She is fairly work focused. 

Her assumption was that I would easily be able to find a job on the West coast within a couple of years so she could move back closer to her family. As I am very specialized engineer the move has not happen and 15 years later we are still on the East Coast with me working at the same job.

I do have a decent job, I earn 80k+ a year and have a defined benefit pension. Her job earns 60k+ a year with a 401k type scheme.

My job has had a fair bit of travel over the last few 3~4 years. I was travelling 2~3 weeks out of 4 for 3~4 days a week. This year I was promoted and no longer have to do this amount of travel. Travel still provokes resentment though.

Last issue is that both her parents were alcoholics. This can really mess a kid up. Typically the children of alcoholics try and control their lives more than other people, she does this but it's not to the point of being at all dysfunctional. A typical statement would be "I can believe how some women will let a man control them."

try_red_pill

More triage:

"Rule out critical moments and neglect"

When we first moved in together I was clueless about emotional needs and the her expectations of me as a husband. Subsequently there were some errors on my part. The one that always gets brought up is "the fish is bland" incident.

About 12 years ago I was having problems with porn. I was diagnosed with mild depression and put on prozac. The issues resolved themselves and we rebuilt trust to subsequently have a child together in 2004. 

Got myself into martial arts to help with the depression had resentment for the practice time but I had to stop this three years ago due to the travel.

"Rule Out Outside Sexual Sources"

Neither of us have the energy! Little concerned that 2-3 glasses of wine a night she has might be playing this role.

When did the sex go bad?

I would have liked more variety and frequency for a long time, but as we all know now, dealing with it in a blue pill fashion didn't work. Would like a little more of her inner slut let out, bikini shave etc

Last year read the primer and started doing the MAP. She started dressing better and by this time we were in a pattern where any time I asked she did not say no, even if reluctant, and usually got into it once we started. At this time she usually orgasmed between one and three times and nearly always got into lingerie before sex.

At the start of the year, I got a shoulder injury and was no longer able to work out, then a knee injury and was no longer able to run. Subsequently my MAP slipped and I started to backslide into blue pill behaviour, nerfing my increased sex rank. I am now correcting this but it's hard to run the MAP against a total wall of disinterest. I am even hearing the hamster trying to sabotage it "isn't mowing the lawn or swimming with our daughter enough of a workout?"

At the same time the perimenopause symptoms started to become more of an issue, lack of sleep, lower sex drive and reduced ability to orgasm. 

Now we are at complaining "we've already had sex twice this month!" and starfish duty sex outside of ovulation time.

Guess writing this is making at least one of the culprits pretty obvious along with at least one of my next moves.

try_red_pill

More triage:

"What was the sex like at the start of the relationship?"

The sex was OK but never enough for me and never varied enough, I always had the feeling she was scared of me or what I might become with the right stimulus. Even if she was not in the mood initially she usually got into it. There were a couple of times within the first year when, due to arguments, we went 30 days without sex.

She has told me that she found me strange, like I always had some plan or expectation I had to stick to rather than just going with the flow.

Would love it if there was more 'play' and less just getting off. 

"What is the elephant in the room?"

The elephant in the room is my porn use and masturbation.  This has lead to me having low energy and being distracted from life. 

Have started a 90 day "noFap" challenge and so far made it 18 days without Masturbating to porn. I Believe now that I have to always act like a recovering addict and stay away from porn. 

Am also starting to think that perimenopause may be a baby elephant that will have to be addressed. 

Having to use barrier birth control (condoms) feels like an elephant but I am sure it's not.

"Who is the leader in your marriage?"

She is, that is changing but slowly.

Look forward to hearing from all the MAPers.

Serenity

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

try_red_pill

Sound of a stone not hitting the bottom of a well...

DaveBowman

Being straight up, sorry don't have time for niceties.

0. Nice to meetcha. Welcome, etc. 

1. In her or on her. Maybe forever.

2. Shoulder/knee injury is no excuse not to work out. I've worked out with a torn rotator cuff, broken collarbone, broken ribs, broken toes, dislocated shoulders, sprained ankles, broken nose, stitches, and now with severe osteoarthritis in the knee. If I can, you can buddy. It's a boo boo. Work around it. Don't aggravate it, but there's always ways of working out.

3. MAP is for you, not for her. Her interest/disinterest is a side effect, only thing you take from this MAYBE is if you're on the right track or not. But pay attention to IOIs as much or more.

4. You need to figure out what "Would love it if there was more 'play' and less just getting off. " means. If you cant describe it, plan it, and be ready for it, how can you expect to make it happen?

try_red_pill

@DaveBowman message received, understood and appreciated thanks.
1. Understood maybe a scheduled limit in future but has to be "healthy" once reboot is done.
2. Have been doing this but effects not as strong. Will think about program with muscle isolation.
3. Understood, I enjoy effects of MAP for themselves.
4. Means more FO type enthusiasm.

DaveBowman

OK, I'm back. Whoo boy, today's one of them days.

Regarding #4, I mean from your side. What do you want from sex? Take her out of the equation. What do you want? What turns your crank? Positions? Role play? Dominance games? Assume you're the captain of the good ship SS @try_red_pill sex life. Where are you taking this ship?

PS I found my enthusiasm, spontaneity, lack of inhibitions, etc... lead to the same for her.

try_red_pill

Positions and dominance games would be good. I would enjoy spanking her but that is a hard no. She saw her dad slap her mother when she was a kid and as a result can't deal with stuff that looks to her like violence.
I don't hold back from bringing dominance to the bedroom when the time is right, unlike in the pre-MMSLP days.

DaveBowman

ok, good. Now you need to make a plan for what you want.

Ramp up slowly. But surely. And don't discount spanking yet -- my wife said the same thing. Now, sometimes, very very occasionally -- she asks for it.

What's step 1? What's a new vanilla-ish position you could try? That gets you one step along the path?

try_red_pill

Reverse cowgirl, tried a month or so ago but didn't work out, will push to completion get it done soon.

Serenity

A couple of thoughts for you:

• When you had the shoulder and knee injury, did you also start letting up on your leadership and dominant behavior at the same time?  These are critical areas in maintaining her attraction for you.
• Give Cialis a try. My husband much prefers it to Levitra or Viagra. Fewer side effects and lasts up to 36 hours.
• Congratulations on quitting the porn. I think you'll see a tremendous benefit to stopping.
• If peri-menopause is affecting her, find a good HRT specialist for her. Sometimes a combination progesterone/testosterone cream can do wonders for sleeping and libido problems.
• Rather than condoms, have you considered some type of copper ring for birth control? There actually seem to be some benefits of ejaculating into your wife.   http://www.salon.com/2002/06/19/semen/

You may also find this blog post helpful:

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2013/06/explaining-the-in-her-or-on-her-rule/

Serenity

Can you expand on this?

"I always had the feeling she was scared of me or what I might become with the right stimulus."

try_red_pill

1. Yes, exercise provides energy, which enables dominance and leadership. Also I let the porn and "porn-think" creep back in.
2. My Dr. steered me away from Cialis due to priapism and levitra works in 15 minutes rather than 30. I have used Cialis and the 36 hour thing would be overwhelming right now, depending on dosage. Neither of us are HD enough to want it 3 times in a day and a half. Most ever we'd once a day during pregnancy.
3. Have already have had first unaided PiV after two weeks of quitting porn and MB.
4. Need to look at this but think I will need to push through a lot of resistance to get her there.
5. Last time I suggested this was met with "I'm not going to take time off to go to the Dr. to have my waahoo poked for something that only you want." My diagnosis is a big case of "Good Girl Syndrome." Last time we had sex she pushed me half into her uncovered and nearly came on the spot before she pulled herself off and has talked fondly of "naked" sex before. Think there is lingering resentment over me not getting vasectomy. Have explained why I think this would be a bad idea and she seemed to accept but there is crappy attitude any time BC is brought up.
Have been through the www.yourbrainonporn.com site and am very aware of what I need to do to try and lose the ED and fix myself.

try_red_pill

Serenity said:

Can you expand on this?

"I always had the feeling she was scared of me or what I might become with the right stimulus."

She told me, a long time ago, that she "policed" our sex life because she thought if she gave me the kink I wanted I would go "out of control."

With regard to the BC

try_red_pill

Whoops! Damn phone.

With regard to BC I need to MAP some more and up my attractiveness to her before it can be discussed again.

try_red_pill

Was reviewing this thread. Notice a pattern of backsliding over winter, need to consider SADD more seriously and address in revised MAP.

As regards the original @DaveBowman‌ question, "What do you want from sex?" this post from /r/deadbedrooms  would be like winning the lottery for me and about as likely.   Reads as though it could be trolling though, 2-4 times per day!

Had a minor shit test by text today but thing I did OK. Must maintain frame, must maintain frame, must maintain frame.

Angeline

Ok after reading back through this, I'll say again that she's bored. I dont understand why she needs a loser who cant afford a hotel to mentor her when she makes $60K, but whatever.

Read Athol's Leadership Moments blog, and anything suggested at the end "you might also like". 

I think the condom issue combined with your porn-created lack of fire is a problem. Overall it sounds like you just need some continuity, some fun, and to gradually increase alpha behavior, outside then inside the bedroom. For example, spanking - once this tension is past, playfully pat her ass if she makes a mistake while you're both in the kitchen, like leaves the fridge open and wastes electricity. When you give her a hug, slide your hands down and grab her ass and groan like its the best thing you've ever had in your hands. Stuff like that. Even in someone predisposed, you can't just start right off with spanking. Just playful pats and swats. 

try_red_pill

Angeline said:

I dont understand why she needs a loser who cant afford a hotel to mentor her when she makes $60K, but whatever.

As to being bored, adding excitement is part of the MAP I am working on and have had success with recently, but understand time is needed for the change to sink in.

I think that work for her is a big issue. It's also part of the boredom. I've noticed that over the years within 6-18 months of starting a job she is convinced that the workplace is an emotionally toxic hell hole. For the longest part of our marriage I have come home to a daily victim puke about her colleagues antics of the day. Part of that is just the normal wear and tear of being a husband but I believe that the issue there is that work is a transaction, labor for pay and she is expecting validation to be a part of that transaction and no way is she going to get that as a writer editor.

From what I understand the guy may have no knowledge of her plan to get him back here. He is currently on the other coast. Also the associations that she has trained with typically host the speakers for conferences but don't pay them much.

fordsvt

So where are you at right now. What improvements have you made. Is she responding?  
Stop watching porn. It ruins you and your mental ability to focus on her. 

try_red_pill

I am on top of the porn right now.

During my MAP hiatus I had a couple of single occurrence slip ups. I realized I had to get this under control so I went back to noFap. Am currently about 100 days porn and masturbation free and need to keep this going indefintely. Have probably MO or watched porn 5 times this year, mostly in the first half of the year.

Since my teens I had been using my active imagination to fantasize porn scripts in my head while fapping. Lately this had switched over to doing this by edging, just bad, bad, bad. I was deluding myself that this was not fapping and was probably sapping my energy and sabotaging my MAP.

Was on a 30 day no-edge/fantasy streak but had a very small slip recently, fantasizing about the wife.

As per YBOP I am no longer so much interested in spanking and the kinky stuff so I counting it as progress.

She is responding, we have some pretty raunchy lingerie which is her favorite stuff and have been experimenting with some non-condom PiV at safe times of the month, either using withdrawal or switching back to condoms.