Driving Fitness Failure-How to fix and pass?

Captaindude

Lifelong nice guy beta provider with passive aggressive tendencies needs help from natural alpha types.  

Who drives when we're together has become a power struggle symbolic of our marriage.  I have no tickets, no accidents in more than 3 years, probably much longer than that.  In fact, I have no at-fault accidents ever.  She has at least one at-fault accident with no other cars, no recent tickets.   Generally, we're both okay drivers.  

When I drive, she has a long history of continually correcting me and giving directions, often in a bit of a harsh tone.  She knows it really bugs me, and in the past year or so has improved, but still frequently makes comments with an attitude that I'm a terrible driver.  So, on long trips, she usually drives.  In reality, I usually prefer to read or do stuff and feel her up or ogle her legs, so I don't mind not driving.  But I've been concerned it's  symbolic of her general overall control of the relationship.

Anyway, the other day, she drove the van with me and the kids about an hour to a family function--I actually asked her to so I could work on something on the way.  Then, on the way home, I said, "I'd like to drive home.  If I drive, I'll use the parking voucher I have in my pocket.  Otherwise, you can pay the $10."

She got in the drivers' seat and said, "Guess we'll pay the $10."    I said, "Guess so,"  and gave her a strong look in the eye, went back and forth just a bit, but with son in tow complaining about the driving contention, I just got in the passenger seat.   After she was already driving she made a brief comment about if I asked nicely, she might let me drive, but I shouldn't demand it.

Pulling into the parking attendant, I was seriously inclined to not hand over the parking voucher, and she said, 'really? There are people behind us.'  I said, 'Yep, better find your $10."  But, then I eventually just handed over the voucher because I realized I earn all the money, and didn't want my son to see another fight playout, so it was MY $10.  

The rest of the drive, I played games on my phone, said nothing, and when we got home fixed two bikes and borrowed a chain saw and cut some limbs down on our trees and pruned bushes before heading to another family event--again she drove.  We've had a zillion of her family staying at our house, so it's been hard to find any time at all to talk to her alone, but I haven't made a serious effort to bring it up since then.

Here's the thing:  I know I failed miserably.  I really hate that I went back on my word about the $10.   I just don't know how to pass this one--or how to recover from it.  The past two days, I just haven't talked to her much, shown no interest in being with her.  

Piled on top of it all--after getting kids in bed, last night I went out to the front yard at night while she was chatting with visiting sister I went out and rested in hammock in the front and read e-mail on my phone.  She came out ticked off, grabbed my phone which was open to an e-mail reply, accused me of not telling her where I was and lying about checking e-mail (she's uptight because a couple of months ago I admitted some history with porn use, and our kids often escape stuff to hang on their ipods) and went back in.  I felt zero attraction to her, so I eventually came in and slept on the couch.  

Two failed tests in two days followed by plenty of passive-aggressive behavior.  How do I recover?  

We have a definite power struggle going on and I'm sick of it, but I feel like everything would be worse if I just give in.  I feel like driving could be a symbol of that to resolve somehow.

pocketaces

You set yourself up with a no win dilemma. Dont do that.

Personally, I choose my battles. Seems like this is purely over control. If my wife liked to drive id let her.

If my wife took my phone Id tell her to give my phone back, in my serious tone. If I thought I could take it back WITHOUT hurting her I would. If not Id go out to the bar, sans phone. Oh, you dont like my being out with no way to contact me? Dont take my phone.

I think that might be too advanced for you, depends on if you can pull this off with a straight face, standing tall.

Captaindude

She did give it right back.  No problem with the phone really.  

I think it was Athol a long time ago that suggested fights over nothing are really fights over control.  

I feel we're generally having a fight over control and I feel I need to win the overall control battle, with driving as ground zero.  But, I could be wrong--I just need to pass some fitness tests somewhere.  

For me, it's not about a preference for driving, it's her lack of trust in me generally, expressed by her nagging while I drive and her insisting that she drive.  

JimDawg

I don't understand this at all. Do you have a set of keys to the car? If so just go to the driver's door get in and put the keys in the ignition and the say "I'm driving."

Don't set it up as a negotiation. It isn't "if you let me do x, I'll do y". It's "I'm doing x". Stop fighting for control and just take it.

Alecto

Stop discussing who is going to drive with her.  Just get in the driver's seat, every time.  You are likely right that it is simply a symptom that shows who is in control in the marriage, but fighting about it in front of your child isn't the way to solve it.  Just stop talking and DO.

And yeah, grabbing your phone is rude behavior.  If she wants to know what you're looking at, she can ask.  Why would she think you would lie about checking email?  That is bizarre.

Captaindude

So, it's a race to get to the driver's seat first?  Ok.  I guess I can do that if I pay attention to getting out there first.   Sometimes we've literally done that.  

Seems really childish, but I guess it's better than verbal fights.  Should I even bring up the issue to talk about at all, or just pretend nothing happened and move on?

TK421

Captain drives. Always. Unless it's a long road trip and you're tired to which you state, "I'm pulling over at the next rest stop so you can drive for a bit. Need some coffee?"

My wife's parents do the driving game too. Wife insists on driving, even when they make the 13 hour cross-country drive to visit us for a week - wife drives the ENTIRE TRIP. I asked my FIL why and he shrugged and said, "She just wants to drive." I asked, "Is this a power thing for her? Like she wants to be in control of the vacation?" He nodded and admitted, "Yeah, that's a big part of it."

You're the Captain - time to relieve her of duty. Like Alecto  said, just get in the driver's seat every time. If she protests, just pull a Marko Ramius and with great annoyance look sideways and say "You're relieved!"

TK421

Here's how ya fuckin do it.... at the 1:00 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ak917meUoo

Alecto

 

Captaindude said:

So, it's a race to get to the driver's seat first?  Ok.  I guess I can do that if I pay attention to getting out there first.   Sometimes we've literally done that.  

Seems really childish, but I guess it's better than verbal fights.  Should I even bring up the issue to talk about at all, or just pretend nothing happened and move on?

Why would it need to be a race?  Is your wife childish enough to actually run to the car first so you can't drive?  If I did something like that to my husband, I doubt he would ever ride with me driving again.  If she does it, drive yourself.  If you don't have your own car, get one.

haniel

Captaindude said:

 "I'd like to drive home.  If I drive, I'll use the parking voucher I have in my pocket.  Otherwise, you can pay the $10."

You set it up to fail with lines like this. 'I'd like to....' No one gives a shit about what you'd like to do. They only care about what you actually do. And then you add to it a little contract hoping to get your way. It's definitely only about control. And so, even if you get control by employing contracts, its still a fail. Never give a reason for why you want to drive. Even if it's the most valid reason. Every time just say, "I'm driving." No arguing. No reasoning. Be prepared to not go to whatever the event is. And don't be afraid to fight.

SteveDallas

Alecto said:

 

Captaindude said:

So, it's a race to get to the driver's seat first?  Ok.  I guess I can do that if I pay attention to getting out there first.   Sometimes we've literally done that.  

Seems really childish, but I guess it's better than verbal fights.  Should I even bring up the issue to talk about at all, or just pretend nothing happened and move on?

Why would it need to be a race?  Is your wife childish enough to actually run to the car first so you can't drive?  If I did something like that to my husband, I doubt he would ever ride with me driving again.  If she does it, drive yourself.  If you don't have your own car, get one.

Agree completely. Make it clear that you are done with this game. If she insists on racing to the car to beat you, you'll meet her there. Nothing passive aggressive about it. You'll do what you want and she is free to agree or disagree.

I would also avoid the idea that you won't fight in front of the children. If she wants to back down "for the children" let her. It isn't going to ruin his world to hear mom and dad argue once in awhile.

TK421

Did Tony Soprano ever let Carmella drive his ass anywhere? Fuck no.

Tiger

CaptainDude,

You need to walk before you can run, perhaps you can appeal to her sense of fairness/equality.  Particularly if she's very blue pill.

"Honey, I am not comfortable with you doing all the driving, I would like to drive at least 1/2 the time."

If she has a long list of reasons why she should be driving most of the time, listen until she winds down and then pull out "You have given me lots to think about." and disengage.

You have now stated your expectation, from here out you keep a set of keys to all your vehicles in your pocket at all times and take every opportunity to drive.  If she is driving she is using her own keys, NEVER give her your keys, that way you won't have to ask for them back.  Don't ask her every time you plan to drive, simply pull out your keys and head for the drivers side of the vehicle.  If she happens to be in the drivers seat, start with a gentle reminder.  "I'd like to drive this time.", If she fights you on it then you need to decide to push or to let it go.  I'd start with letting it go, but you can probably reiterate you point once, particularly if the driving has been unbalanced with her driving more often recently.  At that point you can state that you an unhappy with her decision to not be willing to accede to your desire, but you are willing to be the bigger person.

I really sense that there is a power dynamic here that she controls who gets to drive and that she will allow you to drive if you ask nicely.  That ain't good, you are right to be concerned about the control issues that this represents.

But don't try to throw the frog into boiling water.  Much better to slowly turn up the heat and have her not realize that 3 months from now you are doing 75% of the family driving.

And we'll be ready for the next thread on how to deal with her shit tests about your driving skills

_io

Unless there is a medical reason, the husband drives.  She doesn't accept your headship.  You have set a terrible precedent sometime in the past, and now you are paying the price.  

Who is in the driver's seat is the iconic metaphor of who leads the relationship.  The first thing to do is that when you are driving, you do not let her tell you how to drive or how to get there (unless you have given her navigation duties on a roadtrip to somewhere unfamiliar).  Use Mapquest if it's somewhere local that you are unfamiliar with.  Be in control.  When she starts questioning your driving, just say, "hmm."  Ignore it otherwise.  At most if she's insistent, "this is the way I like to go."

She's showing you who's boss.  You're letting her.  

pocketaces

Ok after some rumination, if this really matters, Id just take the piss the whole way. Start calling her Jeves in an affected british accent and treat her like the chauffer in the car.

Ah, yeash, i do think we should adjourn posthaste. I do think the bumpers need shining, I would like you to attend to that at your earliest convenience. Mmmyeash.

Hehehee.

Maria

Captaindude said:

Lifelong nice guy beta provider with passive aggressive tendencies needs help from natural alpha types.  

Who drives when we're together has become a power struggle symbolic of our marriage.  I have no tickets, no accidents in more than 3 years, probably much longer than that.  In fact, I have no at-fault accidents ever.  She has at least one at-fault accident with no other cars, no recent tickets.   Generally, we're both okay drivers.  

When I drive, she has a long history of continually correcting me and giving directions, often in a bit of a harsh tone.  She knows it really bugs me, and in the past year or so has improved, but still frequently makes comments with an attitude that I'm a terrible driver.  So, on long trips, she usually drives.  In reality, I usually prefer to read or do stuff and feel her up or ogle her legs, so I don't mind not driving.  But I've been concerned it's  symbolic of her general overall control of the relationship.

That is the vibe I'm getting, too.

Two failed tests in two days followed by plenty of passive-aggressive behavior.  How do I recover? 

By being clear what you want and expressing it plainly. But: Are you sure you are not wasting energy in a fight on a sideline?

Okay, if you want to drive that badly, tell her so. Once - and then do it. Just go to the driver's seat. If she really engages in a silly, childish race to the car you might want to think of some consequences. (In an area with good public transport I'd just say: Fine, I won't get into a car that's driven by a 4 year old. I'll take the bus. But I realize that's not possible everywhere ;-) )

We have a definite power struggle going on and I'm sick of it, but I feel like everything would be worse if I just give in.  I feel like driving could be a symbol of that to resolve somehow.

After having read up on your other discussions I'm impressed how far you have come! Things have looked a lot more dire a couple of weeks ago, haven't they?
I just don't think the driving issue is a means of resolving underlying issues of your marriage. Rather the other way round. It's a symptom, not the core issue.

That doesn't mean you should give in, but keep in mind that one should never enter power struggles unless one is sure to win them.

pocketaces said:

Ok after some rumination, if this really matters, Id just take the piss the whole way. Start calling her Jeves in an affected british accent and treat her like the chauffer in the car. Ah, yeash, i do think we should adjourn posthaste. I do think the bumpers need shining, I would like you to attend to that at your earliest convenience. Mmmyeash. Hehehee.

I'm ambivalent on this recourse:
If you get it across as A&A - great.
Just take care it doesn't go down the p/a lane... And given that she KNOWS how much it pisses you off when you don't get to drive I'm afraid it's going to be hard for you to come across as genuinely amused.

Captaindude

Great feedback!  Thanks.  I'm just naturally not that humorous and she knows I don't like it.  But, I'm no Tony Soprano, either.  I'm probably better at pissed off than at funny jokes.

@maria  Yes, there are lots of deeper issues.  But, I feel if I can win this one, it will help with the other stuff.  Kind of like Mayor Guiliani arresting jaywalkers in NYC and drastically cutting general crime down throughout the city.  

george

Sounds like this issue was pre-you. But look at the bright side: you can get in the back and take a nap. Next time ask if you should bring a pillow and blanket. And plan long road trips.....

Huff96

One thing about alphas, they will fight if they are challenged.
I used to be pretty beta in some ways, but my marriage changed in dramatic fashion the day I stood up to her (threatened to divorce her) and she believed me.
It wasn't this issue, I'm (literally) a professional driver and I don't ride with anybody. But if it were...
I suggest telling her "I'm done with this stupid game. I'm driving, period. If you jump in the drivers seat, I'm not going. I'll walk home, I'll take a cab, I'll divorce you if you leave me somewhere crazy, but I'm driving."

And then drive well. Don't tailgate, clear every intersection, every time, focus, don't text, etc... (Be the good captain)

She's not going to 'give' you control, you'll have to take it if you want it.

Wolfie

I drive, period. For the last 2 years the only time I've been in the car with my wife driving has been after I've had a couple of beers. 

Just remember to try and give her nothing to moan about, demonstrate that you are a Great driver. Some people will complain about anything - its a shit test - but if its about real danger (e.g. jumping red lights) then you need to up your game. 

Serenity

Do you each have your own car?  You drive your car, she drives hers. When you go somewhere together, you always take your own car. If she wants to drive, then she can drive her own car separately. Which would be pretty silly of her, but that's the point.

You need to be in the driver's seat ... both literally and metaphorically.