Girl game - not really equivalent

jklm

@x1134x, I'm pretty sure we're not at "geez woman get off my back, I've become comfortable being miserable why can't you?" but good call - avoiding that is exactly why I don't want to just repeat myself. We're looking at a definite case of #6, there was a post relatively recently about how learning game isn't somehow betraying yourself that could have been written for him.

@Athol_Kay, I'm really bad at verbally blowing up, have probably come near it a few times but missed the key step of storming out and disappearing. I *did* write him a very explicit letter explaining just how frustrated I was, why, and what to do about it (at the time it was basically 'read the Primer, here's where you can find it') and hand it to him when he was on his way out the door. So he read it without me around, but then I was there when he came back - awkward and ineffective. If I try this approach again, I will try to remember to storm out.

Athol_Kay

What the specific things you want changed? And the minimum response to those core concerns it would take for you to stay in the marriage?

 

 

jklm

Thanks, asking that really brings things into focus. I can see how he might have a hard time knowing what to concretely do to resolve this, even if he wants to.

Guess my homework is to figure out what the action items are in the first place. I mentioned a few things in the letter (say we're having sex tonight or just go for it rather than asking if we are, act independently without needing direction for every single step of a mundane task, just ignore it if I seem a little upset rather than assuming you've done something wrong and being supplicating, and read the Primer), I don't really know what else to ask. He's make a token/temporary effort toward those things but I'd say they still apply. I could probably also throw in "build some muscles" - he's proud of his boyish figure, but I know he used to lift weights so it's not like I'd even be asking for a whole new person. Also, remember how to kiss, except that's a chicken and egg problem to some degree right now.

Guys, maybe you can help me here - if you're here because you were acting too beta for your wife, what actual concrete steps have you taken that have improved things? Steps I could ask my husband to take rather than just issuing vague threats and complaining that he's not doing it for me?

Athol_Kay

What would be something that shocks him, but wouldn't totally break him?

jklm

Well, said letter left him shell-shocked for a few days but he's obviously decided there's no imminent threat. (Rightly, I suppose, since I didn't take any drastic action afterward.) Mentioning separation and sounding like I mean it would shock the heck out of him. I would definitely need to give action items. Thanks for chiming in on those, @RedPillNewb.

Athol_Kay

Dress up nice and go "out to a club with a girlfriend".

Lots of dread there.

jklm

Does not care. Last night I ignored a call and then emailed to tell him that I was out at a bar with the girls (which I was). He said have fun. He trusts me, and in fact I'm ridiculously trustworthy, so I'd have to really lay it on thick to create dread. I might be able to come up with something creative, though. Like coming home much later than expected... he'd probably worry that I was dead first, though :-P

C8H11NO2plusplus

I love you but I'm not in love with you worked for me.

Then point him to the part of the MMSLP that talks about what that means.

Dread > 9000

Linanati

Figure out exactly what you want from him.  Then communicate that to him.  Tell him if you don't see measurable progress in 6 months, you are going to get a legal separation.

Then stop initiating sex, stop trying to tell him to lead or how to lead, just step back and see what he does.  You can't force someone to lead.  You can make him go through the actions of leading, but then you are still really the one in control.  In 6 months, if he hasn't stepped up to the plate, there's nothing you can do that will make him.  At that point, you either have to accept that this is how things are going to be, or cut your losses and move on.

jklm

ILYBINILWY came up in the letter I've mentioned, and it did shock him but I readily admitted I had no other specific guy in mind just at the moment, thereby reducing the dread factor substantially.

In 6 months, if he hasn't stepped up to the plate, there's nothing you can do that will make him.  At that point, you either have to accept that this is how things are going to be, or cut your losses and move on.

Thank you, this sounds like exactly the course of action that I need to follow, both because it'll seem more imminent to him and because it gives me a concrete time frame to make a decision about the rest of my life one way or the other. I will be putting some serious thought into what exactly I do want from him and how to explain it.

Linanati

You're welcome.  Hope it works for you!

jklm

I had to Google 'on the down low' - didn't realize it had such specific connotations. Gosh, I'll never be able to throw it into conversation in quite the same way. Although "clean" is an interesting choice of words that makes me feel like I may still be missing what you mean in this case.

Do you mind my asking the end result? Is he still your husband?