Band geek gets the hottie and they live happily ever after. Well, getting there… (a novel)

wedge

Hey all – I’m a long time beta lurker currently injecting a healthy dose of alpha into my life right now.  Going through some major life changes (2^nd kid arrived a month ago, resigned from longtime menial job, going back to school, starting up own business) along with working out more, trying to eat better, and applying the MAP to our relationship every day.  So definitely one of those pivotal moments in a guy's life.

I suppose I’ll start at the beginning...  My wife and I are the typical high school sweethearts.  We started dating my junior year, with her a grade behind me.  We were both in band and knew of each other, but it wasn't until a band trip that we really started talking and connecting.

I remained in band the rest of HS; she dropped band and decided to play softball for another year.  Thanks to countless hours in marching band, lugging drums up and down the field in practice, exhibition, and competition, I was fairly toned for a band geek.  Naturally, her many hours practicing and playing softball certainly helped her physically.  To sum up: we were both solid SR 7s, friendly, and outgoing.

The first couple of months were typical high school stuff: hanging out at each other’s house, going to movies, dinners, “studying” at the library…   It was at about the 6 month mark when we started getting hot and heavy.  Extended make out sessions with roving hands under clothes to see what made us tick.  Before her, the most I did sexually was eat out my previous GF.  Most she ever did was make out with her BFs.  She wasn't a prude, but she wasn't comfortable going far with guys either yet.  Our sessions escalated slowly into dry humping to completion.  (she used to wear skirts… A LOT)

Her dad dropped a bomb on their family 6 months into our relationship: he left to live with another woman and her kids.  The same woman that he “dated” while separated from my wife’s mom years before wife was even born.  Around the time he left, we started getting into the heavier stuff.  We've discussed this a time or two in later years, and we both think it might have been her wanting physical attention/healing/comfort during that whole ordeal.

So the divorce between her parents finalized, she and her sister lived with their mom full time and I was at their house just about every day to do what I could to help (whether around the house fixing stuff or just to listen to them vent) and I really didn’t mind as they had become my second family.  *We hadn’t had sex by that point, just heavy make out/dry humping*

So the rest of that school year rolled by, summer was good as it could be, all things considered, and my senior year started that fall.  I was still heavily involved with band and drumming for our school’s jazz choir, so I traveled quite a bit to shows and competitions.

wedge

Halfway through my final year I catch senioritis.  That feeling of impending finality to your childhood that makes you do crazy things, like dump your girlfriend and see other people… but still keep your ex-girlfriend on a string physically.  So yeah, basically an asshole for a few months until I wised up and went back to her.

We moved in together the summer of her HS graduation.  Yeah, a little quick, but we were both fairly confident that we were going to pan out in the long run.  Lived together for a few years then got married.  Couple of years after that, our first kid was born.  My wife gained quite a bit of weight, by her own admission, with that pregnancy.  On top of that, she quit her “crazy” pills, as she called them, and doing so, didn't really help with her body image at the time.

It was tough adjusting to the change for both of us, but nothing seemed out of the ordinary until a year or so after her birth.  During the holidays that year, I started getting the feeling that “something” was up.  We weren't really talking a lot anymore.  We both worked full time, she’d pick up our daughter from daycare, we’d all come home, eat dinner, get daughter to bed, and then we separated into our own worlds; her on a laptop and me at my desktop.  This feeling continued through November and December.  Finally in January, I log into her Facebook account and find out she’s been having an EA with a long time internet “friend”/chat partner.  They essentially started talking online before she and I started dating.  (they'd kept in touch the previous decade through IM/email)  If it wasn't for FB’s chat history, I’d never had known that they were actively planning on meeting in person.  (him driving up, state to state)  The things they talked about weren't too graphic, to be honest, but they talked about stuff that a spouse should be saying to their other half, not an online chat buddy.  After reading their entire log, spanning a couple of years, the wife goggles came off for the first time in our relationship.  The first time I realized that we were slipping... and fast.

wedge

Like an idiot, I went about a week between finishing their chat log and confronting my wife about it.  In that week, she instigated several times for sex and I turned her down each time, thinking I was “getting back at her”.  (stupid Beta shit-thinking lol)  After the third or fourth denial, she asked me what was going on.  I emailed her their entire history, with yellow highlighting the more troubling parts.  She was shocked, embarrassed, and seemed genuinely disgusted with what she did.  We talked for hours about it and concluded that we’d start to focus on each other more.  What happened next still confuses me to this day…. We had crazy, mind-blowing sex for the next three days in a row.  I don’t know if it was because we hadn't connected physically in a long time, or if it was a combo of that and guilt, or if she was fantasizing about him each time.  I’d like to think it was option #1 or 2.  Additionally, after one of those sessions, cuddling with each other, we got on the subject of fantasies.  She opened herself up to me on a whole new level.  She told me she was always afraid to tell me her fantasies, like I’d think she was sick or something.  “Uh, hello… you married a band geek: pervert since birth.”  All in all, it just seemed like a lot of BS red tape had come down and we learned a pretty good lesson from that season in our marriage.

Since then, it’s been slow and steady.  Sex a few times a month, wife slowly losing weight and adjusting to life without meds for both her mind and body. I’m very much convinced the lack of sex stems from my lack of leadership in our relationship as well as my “sex stock” having plummeted over the years.

Looking back, especially after reading the primer, I realized I had a lot of girls showing me so much attention, my wife knew it, and I can only assume she acted upon the feeling of “I should take care of him, or else someone else will."

Time to rise...

Serenity

Hi and welcome to the Forum.  Glad you found your way here. 

The_Dude

Welcome. I think its terrific you ended up here. This place may be very helpful to you. I have a bit of history with EA's and affairs in general. 

 Your story has a lot of normal patterns in it. The mind blowing sex after the discovery is probably what is known as hysterical bonding. It's very normal, and to be honest, a good sign.  Your wife's behavior at that point is exactly what you want to see after she was confronted. If she didn't react that way I would be very concerned. She showed true remorse and embarrassment.  I would not worry about option 3 if that's bothering you.  Unless there is something major not in your description, it was not that. 

And the opening up to each other on a new level of honesty is terrific and probably the blessing you got for all the pain.

Shutting down the EA was essential. If it kept going, it probably would have destroyed your marriage over time.  I can't tell enough from the post but I would recommend going into more detail on what's happened since then.  

I don't see enough to understand the timeline.  How old are you now, how long married, how long ago did the discovery happen?

I would assume you had a fair amount of grief at the time. Is it still affecting you?

How was the EA shut down?  Did you confront him in any way.   Was there a no contact rule put in place?  Be specific. 

Do you have any doubts that she may still be in contact with him?  Where does he live?

I would highly recommend you buy a book called "Not just friends" and read it.  You need to understand the mechanics of EA's specifically. Some of whats in that book is a little blue pill so take the parts that make sense and don't conflict with what your getting out of the primer. The primer and the new book are excellent and just what you need. But EAs are a specific area of concern for you and your wife.  At some point you may want to share that book with your wife. She needs to really understand the mechanics and why they are so insidious. 

The fact that you were able to read the Facebook messages is both a blessing and a curse. I also got to read years of detail. I had the email, Facebook, and text content. It is very tough to see that stuff but you have a true understanding of what the relationship was. You don't have to spend the rest of your life trying to guess. Personally, in the end, I think it helped me with closure.

Do you still have the log?  Do you go back and open it?

"Like an idiot, I went about a week between finishing their chat log and confronting my wife about it.  In that week, she instigated several times for sex and I turned her down each time, thinking I was “getting back at her”."

Why do you regret this?

wedge

Thanks for the welcome, @Serenity and @The_Dude!

@The_Dude - in response to what you've said/questions...

Well I'm glad the sex after my EA confrontation was definitely a good thing. lol  Everything in my description was it, nothing leftover besides the actual details of what was said between the two.

Since then, from what I can tell through looking at her FB chats, texts, and email once in a blue moon, the relationship with OM is over.  Just to make clear, I don't check up on her very often.  It's something that's done maybe twice a year, if that, at this point.  Of course, the relationship could always have gone "underground" via a different email address entirely, but her demeanor and interactions with me don't set off any alarms, telling me to look further, so I don't.  Oh yeah, forgot to mention OM is a Marine.  Deployed to Afghanistan during the time their heavier conversations took place.

We've been together since 2000, married in 2006, I'm 29 now.  Discovery happened around the middle of December 2011 and confrontation was about a month later. (really awkward Christmas and New Year's that year.  Me knowing, her not knowing that I knew, yet I had to act "normal" until confrontation)  A little more background prior to confrontation:  Thanksgiving night, I noticed she kept talking to the OM, who I knew was a good enough friend of hers, so I thought nothing of it.  After a few drinks that night, the gears in my brain started turning, making me wonder what was so great about this friend of hers that had her IM'ing him all night while we were around the dinner table talking and enjoying each others' company.  Took a few weeks for action, but by mid-Dec. I figured I'd start diving into her FB chats with him and sure enough...  Spent the next couple of weeks reading just about everything I could find at Talk About Marriage website. (Wish I had stumbled across the primer back then as well)

Definitely had a lot of grief at the time.  I honestly couldn't believe that it was happening to us, and usually within 15 feet of me and our daughter at the time.  I was beyond pissed... hurt, scared, felt alone, wanted to hit something (mostly OM lol), scream, etc.  Now that I think about it, I most likely let a few weeks go by between the discovery and confrontation, so I could stay cool during that spill-the-beans session with her.  I modeled a lot of my behaviors from my dad, which included staying super cool in highly stressful situations... even if it took a few weeks to calm down. lol  I'd say it affects me still, but in a positive way. Coupled with the primer, that incident drives me to be the best husband and father I can be every day.

EA stopped after our confrontation session.  I continued to monitor all her ways of communication.  Odd thing though, I was never able to find a "My H knows about our conversations" message to the OM.  Stupidly, I never ordered a no contact rule (was still stuck in that beta mode) so I figured I could just keep monitoring them, not thinking they could just take their shenanigans somewhere else.  At that point, I installed a keylogger on her personal laptop for a few months, but never found anything condemning in her subsequent chats with the OM.  I know she talks to him on occasion, but it's few and far between chats now.  We're in WA state and he lives in OR.  She had mentioned to me and one of my best guy friends (practically a brother to me), about a year before, that the OM and her were talking about him driving up to meet her.  Me and my friend both looked at her and told her that wasn't happening.  She didn't understand why not, and we had to explain that all he'll want is sex.  She didn't believe us.  Not sure if she used that conversation as an ego boost, or if she was really that ignorant of male behavior.  After the discovery, I confided only in my friend about what was going on.  Us three go way back to HS together, and he was there every step of the way of our relationship. (one of the groomsmen at our wedding, even)

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely read it.

Yep, technology certainly makes it easy for people to cheat, but that double-edged sword can certainly bite them in the ass as well.  I assume your story is on the forum as well?  If so, I'll check it out.  I still have the log.  Yeah, I go through it once in a great while.  I actually read some of it last night and found my wife talking about wanting to be handcuffed during sex.  That was the kind of stuff she never told me about before the confrontation.  Her thinking was that I would think she was a freak or something.  So I know what I need to order online tomorrow....  The log doesn't bring me pain like it used to, just a gentle reminder now not to let our marriage sink so low like it did.

Don't really regret it, but the primer made me see how silly I was acting.  Your spouse wants to sex you, let her!  lol  Of course, I was a different person then and hurting more than she could really know at the time.

The_Dude

Ok, I'm going to tell you a few things which you are not going to like and may have some difficulty understanding at first.  You are still in trouble.  You are describing a combination which is a ticking time bomb.

The good news is that with a few relatively straightforward adjustments, it is fixable. But I'm serious, if you don't take some very specific actions you are likely walking into pain like you've never experienced. 

The other good news is that I think your wife truly loves you and you two are in a place to build an awesome marriage. 

" I assume your story is on the forum as well?  If so, I'll check it out."

It was.  I just took it down a few days ago.  When I first came here I really didn't expect to stay around.  I put too much identifying information in it for my comfort.  Planning on reposting it at some point.

My story is very similar to yours with one major exception.  I didn't know about the EA and didn't wake up until too late.  But the early history is very similar.  What I wouldn't give to go back to the point you're at with the understanding I have now. 

I reread everything you wrote start to finish. You are describing a pattern that has been repeated endlessly and is predictable.  I saw it first hand and I've read dozens of similar accounts.

Let me be blunt and clear.  The EA is still active.  Both you and your wife do not understand the mechanics in play.  By this I don't mean she is secretly contacting him more than you know, it would not surprise me, but I have no idea and it doesn't matter for this point. The EA is active.  Maybe dormant but active.

"I know she talks to him on occasion, but it's few and far between chats now."

"At that point, I installed a keylogger on her personal laptop for a few months, but never found anything condemning in her subsequent chats with the OM."

She is still in contact then. You are assuming that because she "learned her lesson", the contact has become platonic, she is reconnected with you now, and that everything is ok if it stays this way.  It's not and both of you need to come to understand this.  Every time she talks to him she is getting a thrill.  Pleasure. She associates him with pleasure. It's a little dopamine shot each time.  Like a little hit of cocaine. This is basic, well understood biology.  You, on the other hand, are an obstacle to getting that hit.  You are unwittingly in the role of the parent who caught their kid smoking. 

I'm going to repeat this in a different way because it's crucial for you to understand.  Have you ever smoked cigarettes?  I doubt it from your background but I assume you know plenty of smokers. They start, it gets out of their control quickly, then something motivates them to quit.  But often they smoke "socially", when they're out for a beer or whatever.  The low level of smoking fools them into thinking they've beaten the addiction.  But then, time after time after time, when they get stressed, they start regular smoking again.   Repeat over and over until it finally sinks in that they have to go cold turkey for a long period to break the association of cigarettes and pleasure.

The Marine is like nicotine.  Right now she's socially smoking.  The first big stress on her will very likely result in a full relapse.  And now she knows to hide it from you.  If that happens it will have the extra impact from being secret and very dangerous.  Double dosage.

The_Dude

"She didn't understand why not, and we had to explain that all he'll want is sex.  She didn't believe us.  Not sure if she used that conversation as an ego boost, or if she was really that ignorant of male behavior"

Correct, she does not understand male behavior. And worse, she does not understand her own behavior. You are also lacking an understanding of certain issues. This is very clear from what you write.  This is not an insult.  Normal everyday people who haven't been through the ringer have no reason to take the time to understand how all this works.  This is why I think your situation is so dangerous.

"Odd thing though, I was never able to find a "My H knows about our conversations" message to the OM.  Stupidly, I never ordered a no contact rule (was still stuck in that beta mode) so I figured I could just keep monitoring them, not thinking they could just take their shenanigans somewhere else. "

You are going to have to correct this.  Start to come to terms with it.

"Just to make clear, I don't check up on her very often.  It's something that's done maybe twice a year, if that, at this point.  Of course, the relationship could always have gone "underground" via a different email address entirely, but her demeanor and interactions with me don't set off any alarms, telling me to look further, so I don't"

You're belief that you can read her demeanor well enough is unfounded.  You're both fully conscious human beings with big brains.  She knows you know.

"Oh yeah, forgot to mention OM is a Marine.  Deployed to Afghanistan during the time their heavier conversations took place."

So you're a band geek up against a Marine.  Let that sink in.

"I still have the log.  Yeah, I go through it once in a great while"

Why?  To wallow?  Or because you worry you missed something?  Stop doing that unless you need something specific from it.  It's not healthy.

"So I know what I need to order online tomorrow.... "

Yeah, order "Not Just Friends".  Read it.  Not kidding.

" She was shocked, embarrassed, and seemed genuinely disgusted with what she did.  "

Awesome.  You have the conditions for success.

"trying to eat better"

There is no try.  Do or do not.  Seriously, drop the weight fast.

So back to my story.  Let me explain how it played out.  I created a detailed timeline during the blowup to make sure I had the facts straight.  I had most all of the messages, email, and text content.

She was losing attraction to me.  It was not terminal but clear in hindsight.  Back then I just thought we were fighting a lot.

She was contacted by a high school boyfriend on facebook.  They started just catching up.  Went on for a while, months.  I started to notice her complaining about me to our friends and others.  I reacted with a lot of anger.

Her texts to OM started to commiserate about me.  Flirting increased.  He responded with overt flirting.  Not propositions, but at this point she would have been appalled if I saw the content.  It was no longer above board communication.  Frequency increased.

Our relationship went downhill even faster.  I reacted by withdrawing from her.  She withdrew from me.  She stopped asking me about family things like visiting relatives, events, etc.  I would find out after they were scheduled.  I was an optional invitee.  Good with me.  I wasn't having much fun around her anyway.

Sex went downhill.  Frequency dropped.  Usually alcohol was involved.  I wasn’t interested in her either.  Rejected her advances several times to great effect.

EA escalated to full out sex talk.  Neither were proposing meeting.  He was married and had no expectations of executing.  They just saw it as a fun, thrilling, secret thing.  She started to wonder out loud to him and her friend about whether she would leave me and how she needed to get laid.  High frequency of communication.  Sometimes 30 a day or more. 

But then there would be long pauses.  Months.  Nothing.  Then they'd start again, escalate, and drop out.  Happened 3 or 4 times.  

One night while helping a relative with a small business event out of town, she got wasted and woke up with another guy.  A guy 1/2 our age.  She's pretty good looking.  A month later she really started working out, lost weight to the lowest I'd ever seen her.  Looked amazing.  Lots of other obvious signs I missed.

She saw that guy about 5 or 6 times over the next two years.  He lived far away.  The lying to cover it up was incredible and convincing.  The messages were now going both to him (PA) and the EA guy.  Really fun stuff to read.  From the messages, to her it was just sex.  She felt guilty, but I was a complete putz that had never treated her right.  yada yada yada.  

One of the most interesting things here was to compare the early EA messages to the later ones.  It was an incredibly clear case of revisionist history.  She would have one set of facts in the beginning.  Over time, the same harms became unforgivable.  The actual facts changed.  She believed it.  It shielded her from guilt.  One day I lined the versions up, early EA, late EA.  It was enlightening.

When an EA is going, it causes the cheater to demonize the spouse.  And they truly believe it.  Thery start to weave a new narrative around the whole relationship.  This is a big part of how the wreck marriages.  I keep telling people here, being able to see the content is a blessing and a curse.  It is a friggen killer to read.  But it gave me the tools to understand it all quickly.

One day something made me go open the computer and start looking.  One thing led to another.  Everything exploded.  That another long story but not relevant.

The_Dude

So I read dozens of books about affairs, EA's, marriage repair, etc.  In two or three weeks.  Hundreds of articles and online posts.  And then I put together a plan and executed on it.

So let me summarize your situation.  She's losing attraction for her husband (you). She had an EA with a hunky marine she knew from high school.  She got found out.  She's still in contact with him.  She doesn't realize how this EA mechanic destroys the primary relationship (and neither do you).  She doesn't understand how to set and enforce intimacy boundaries outside the marriage.  She hasn't had a physical affair blow up that really brought home the reality of losing her family (and neither have you).

Short version:  Her attraction to you is weak.  Her boundaries are weak.  She's had a taste.  She's smarter about hiding things.

1. You have to end the contact.  You need both of them to agree to this.  In front of you.  You have to verify it occurs.  Watch the reaction when you try to do this.  Most likely it will make no sense to you why she will resist so strongly.  (short term project)

2. You have to get her (and you) to understand how to enforce boundaries and why it is so critical.  (longer term project)

3. You have to map like a mofo.  The Primer and this site are the best formulation of regaining and maximizing attraction I've seen.  I had a hacked together amateur version.  (short term, long term, and life long project)

You have a lot of good signs.  She is capable of remorse.  You're aware there is a problem actually doing something about it.  Things haven't exploded (I hope).  But you don't have one thing I had, a tactical nuke going off under your ass to motivate you.  You're going to have to find that yourself.

"She opened herself up to me on a whole new level.  She told me she was always afraid to tell me her fantasies, like I’d think she was sick or something.  “Uh, hello… you married a band geek: pervert since birth."

Awesome.  This happened with me too.  You have to run with this.  Want to make her forget other men, fulfill her fantasies.  Cut through all the bullshit.

"The same woman that he “dated” while separated from my wife’s mom years before wife was even born."

Stands by itself.

TL:DR

p.s.

"On top of that, she quit her “crazy” pills, as she called them, and doing so, didn't really help with her body image at the time."

What were the crazy pills.  Why did she stop taking them?

Is he married or have a long term relationship?

The_Dude

I see your novel and raise. :-)

zeroday

@the_dude wow read your novel. Being a guy who was on the "winning". And "losing". Side of ea/pa fueled by the crack of social media your story must be like a textbook


the weird thing is when it's happening the om ceases to exist as a person and you believe any story they come up with. (He is , abusive, it's just not working etc). Now I know that that is more of an attraction thing




Agree op should verify and shut it Down. All good alpha and beta should come from him.

The_Dude

@zeroday
You mean when you are the other man, the spouse ceases to exist to you? Wording was confusing.
If so, you bet. The om or ow also has a pretty well defined set of patterns they follow. That "not just friends" book was interesting in that it considered the view from all parties. (From memory, been a while since I read it again). It's important to understand everyone involved. That makes it possible to accurately predict the outcomes of your choices.

zeroday

@the_dude I'm going to have to read that one. Note: did not wife poach...more like gf poach. Then got poached! Lol.

"I never meant to hurt you". Probably true...hence the rationale of treating women as I. They have the emotional maturity of an 18 year old?

The_Dude

Lesson. If she's easily poached...

I have no idea what you second paragraph means. You've learned from experience that all women have the emotional maturity of 18 year olds? If so, you just need to find better women. Seriously. The theory is not sound.

zeroday

@the_dude

Absolutely. Def tried to embrace the "how things begin is how they end". Theory. But I be fair...there were numerous structural issues that led to said poaching. Ignorance I being the captain is NOT an acceptable excuse.




Second paragraph was a comment on the idea that when these ea/pa. Things are happening history changes, perspective changes, (ilybbilwy, "never meant it to happen". ). Etc. people really believe their own crapz

I mean treating women as I they are rational actors all the time is not prudent as clearly people are...well people. Oneitis, hypergamy, time before writing etc.

The_Dude

Agreed. Lots of rationalization by lots if people. Mean and women. Hard to cut through the bs.