why do I feel so guilty

24

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  • brotherdancebrotherdance Member Posts: 164
  • LinanatiLinanati Member Posts: 1,553
    My husband doesn't know much about mowers, but there's no way he'd ask me to do it.  That just screams, "I want you to be my mommy!"
  • SerenitySerenity Senior Moderator** Posts: 11,358
    @RedPillNewb ; Now you've got me all intrigued.  Just when did it get smooth?

    The one and only time my wife tried to mow the lawn, she broke the mower.  I'm not about to let her "fix" it.

    Of course, she's always full of advice for me when I work on anything--woman, I've been swinging a wrench since my ass was smooth, so get out of my garage!


    Linanati
  • EulaEula Member Posts: 25
    @Notelrac, thank you for your reply. I will look into the links that you posted. I'm pretty sure it isn't NPD but extreme laziness. It would be ok to PM me if you want to add more detail that you would rather not put on the forum.

    @Athena, thank you for your post. No, he isn't depressed. I'm pretty depressed though myself. 

    @Athol, yes that is what it has turned into and I don't much like it. I am not sure how I can take away his stuff as he can just tell me to f off. I can throw a fit. 

    @Joskin_Nodd, thank you for your reply. That is my mistake in rewarding something for doing nothing. You are right if he was actually applying for jobs, going to interviews, and just trying and helping, I wouldn't be here posting. 
    I guess he can see what it is like when the shoe is on the other foot and I stop trying.
    I got a call from the NZ recruiter a little while ago and they are setting up an interview for me and I am going ahead with it.

    About the mower, I had to chuckle and a blog title came to my mind, if I had one that is.

    "How Power Mechanics class nearly ruined my marriage"

    I am a software engineer by trade. 

    I took a power mechanics course in school and do know a little about lawn mower repair. 

    But yes, it seems that sometimes he will work on a problem and solve it himself and other times he'll tell me he can't do someting and to me, that means me fix it.

    I'll post more later.





  • EulaEula Member Posts: 25
    @Hamster_Free, thank you for your reply. Yes, there are certain conditions for marriage. Marriage is about a sexual relationship and yes that is required. Of course in illness, it would be kind to give the other person a break as in if he had the squrts, he isn't going to be in the mood. If I have the flu, then obviously I'm not going to feel like it either.

    Pulling your weight is required as that is just part of life whether you are with someone or not. If you live alone, you are going to have to put a roof over your head, manage to feed yourself, and keep clean. That is just part of being an adult.

    @x1134x, thank you for your reply. I really appreciate your candor about this being that you used to be like this. I think it is helpful for me to see a possbility of what is going on and the way out.

    I have to ask. Why do you do what you did and how did you justify it being ok to do? Why was she supposed to be happy with the situation?

    I guess I am so used to always working on myself, I have a hard time understanding those who don't want to. I have an injury that I am really frustrated with and want it to be healed now. It is slowing me down. 

    What did your wife do when she realized you had no intentions of really looking for anything as long as you could get away with it?

    I can definitely be supportive of someone who is trying. Someone who gets out there and sends their resume out and actually shows up for interviews, someone who practicing their interviews and researches things to improve their chances. Yes, I can support that.

    I feel used and conned in this marriage.

    When he was laid off, I did agree to him taking a month or two off and then getting back at it. The first of the year came around and he was still doing nothing so then I started asking him if he was looking for work and he assured me he was. He was opening up the job search site for 5 minutes and closing it. Turns out he had never ever signed up for it. He had not done his resume or sent any out. 

    I would mention a casual opening at a nearby shop and he would just say yeah and never follow up on it.

    Then came the training course thing. He was all gung ho about this 6 month training course saying it would improve his skills etc. Like an idiot, I went along with it. Really he had no intention of doing anything with the course. It just bought him 6 more months of doing nothing. I asked him to look for part time work as the course was only 2 days a week but he never even looked. 

    @hamster_free, thanks for your post. Yes, we of the female persuasion tend to second guess and worry. I have taken up the leadership which I don't really want. I worry about doing the right thing and am I being a big meanie for standing up for myself. At this point, I don't think so.

    @webmistress32, thank you for your reply. I have been letting him get away with it thinking that he would just do the right thing eventually because that is what I would do. Wrong!
    Divorce on the table is the last resort. This has been building up for a year. I am sure I would be better off on my own if things don't improve.

    @brotherdance, thank you for your reply. yes, the point is you would solve the problem with the lawnmower even if you asked your mate about it.

    @RedPillNewb, Linanati, Serenity, thank you for posting to my thread.
  • EulaEula Member Posts: 25
    So today he wants me to drive him to the shops to get something for the retic which of course he expects ME to pay for. He doesn't drive and refuses to learn. He always told me he had no reason to drive because he can walk or take the bus. Hmmm, really. every time he has to take the bus, he whines and complains and usually expects ME to drag him around.

    I just ignored what he said to me about taking him there. If he wants to go, he can get there on his own. After all he doesn't need to learn to drive as he has told me.
  • PhoenixDownPhoenixDown TejasGold Women Posts: 10,632
    Grab that interview and run with it. :)

    shanna_banana
  • EulaEula Member Posts: 25
    @RedPillWifey, yes I am going to go for it.

    So I go out there and he asks me if WE can go to the shops and I said neutrally, I'm kind of busy today. He said well I guess I can take the bus and I said Ok.

    I am sceptical but willing to wait and see what happens when I just stop doing everything.
  • brotherdancebrotherdance Member Posts: 164
    Wait, you are his chauffeur too? He won't learn to drive? Are you one of those ladies who picks up every homeless animal on the street so that someone will love it? Not that I think that's a bad trait, but this is looking worse and worse for him. 

    I'm having a hard time not being rude about him to you.
    [Deleted User]
  • x1134xx1134x Member Posts: 1,229
    edited September 2012
    Eula said:
    @x1134x, I have to ask. Why do you do what you did and how did you justify it being ok to do? Why was she supposed to be happy with the situation?
    Well prior to this, we both had jobs, and I was making more money.  She decided she had gotten to the highest rate of pay she could be at without getting more certifications and credentials.  Any school in our area was a 2 year waiting list just to get started, she found a program in another state that she could start at immediately.  I supported us for the first year and a half by flying back and forth, and living with her mother, to send all the money I could to her.  After losing my job (mortgage broker nailed in the housing collapse) I just had a hard time finding anything, but was able to find "piecework" working short term IT jobs.  I initially felt and she agreed that it was ok for me to start my own business doing IT even if I didn't make much money for the first few years, since I had fully supported her going to school all day every day.  

    The IT business was difficult for me to get going because I have issues meeting new people, and initially jobs just fell into my lap when she moved back, and I had half my time filled.  We got used to the income levels, but then I lost my half-time gig.  This is when the income became much more sparse.  This is when we checked out on our relationship and just found "escapes".  She wasn't attracted to me, and since I felt like I was getting nothing, I wasn't about to be giving anything.  I was lackadaisical about my job search because I figured some other gigs would turn up eventually, and I liked being my own boss.  I could tell a client that I already had a morning appointment, and schedule with them for like 11:00 am and sleep in.  A real job would require me to show up at a certain time, and that time would likely be morning.  

    The money situation eventually devolved to where I really needed to bring some in, or we would just be treading water. She had this high paying new job, and wanted the nice things in life to go with them, so we bought a lot of stuff.  I would get really industrious about applying and working on finding money (usually after a big wife blowup), but when I'd send out tons of resumes for many job postings and not even get a call on ONE of them, I'd get really depressed and down on myself, and just soothe with drugs and distraction.  

    We borrowed 8,000 dollars to send me to a two week course on the east coast to get myself certified in IT subjects since my electronics engineering degree seemed to be putting me in the "square file" applying for IT jobs, and my IT experience seemed to be putting me in the "square file" applying for engineering jobs.  So we decided I should get credentials in what I already had experience doing, the degree would just be a bonus.  I had to study my ass off all day every day for 18 days to get 6 certifications.  This definitely helped move my resume to the top of the pile, and after hanging out with my study partners at the school and acing all my tests I came back with more motivation.

    She wasn't necessarily supposed to be happy with her working and me goofing off all day after checking for any new job postings, but in my mind she was supposed to leave it up to me and accept whatever happened.   Which she did for a good while, but it was the inconsistency that was bugging her.  Coming back from my schooling with a positive attitude, I decided I needed to work on my marriage and the things she said she was needing from me. My plan was to prove to her that even with all the stuff she wanted from me, she wouldn't be happy, and she'd just want more. (I was right about this).  I totally became beta to her every request.  Some was good some was not so good.  I decided I'd "take it in the ass" and go work for someone else on their terms if it would make my wife happy, and perhaps she'd want to have sex again like in the past.  

    I widened my job search, and just kept applying, I found a few sucky jobs, and worked them while keeping my options open and job search ongoing.  Finally I found the job I have now that pays more money than I've ever made, and has full benefits.  It wasn't until later after all the beta giving that I was doing and her non-stop moving of the goalposts that I ended up becoming the person wanting a partner, and found the MAP, and started it.  I don't know if I would have had the same amount of "buy-in" to Athol's teachings had they not just been used on me to make me a much better husband.  I was totally phase-4'd.  Fortunately by instilling some boundaries and laying off the supplication to my wife, she's come around rather quickly to appreciating having a man rather than a lapdog.  no phase 4 needed.
    Most women unwittingly ruin the sex as a reward by being so shitty in bed during the sex, that it becomes a form of punishment rather than a reward. - Athol Kay.
  • EulaEula Member Posts: 25
    @brotherdance, yes unfortunately I am taxi cab too. I know this is my own doing. So he hasn't left yet and it still laying on the sofa complaining how sore he is from the yard work yesterday. Too bad. He never once felt sorry for me when I would drag my self out of bed sick with the flu to drag his rear to work.

    I had a special test on Monday, very special, and he was mostly concerned whether or not I would be able to drop him off somewhere. 

    x1134x, from what you posted, it does sound like you were doing some things like taking the course and being serious about it and sending out resumes and looking for gigs. How much was loafing around and how much was looking for gigs?  

    Even when he took the course, he wasn't really motivated. He would complain about it constantly and left all the projects to the last month. I mean if I saw a sliver of motivation, I would have more hope.

    he certainly can spend all days surfing the net looking for game cheats or whatever he wants to do though. Has plenty of motivation for that.

    He knows that I have the NZ interview next week and he hasn't said anything about it.

    Like I said before, I have a valid business idea and was in the process of getting some seed money and getting things rolling and he won't support me at all. 
  • x1134xx1134x Member Posts: 1,229
    x1134x, from what you posted, it does sound like you were doing some things like taking the course and being serious about it and sending out resumes and looking for gigs. How much was loafing around and how much was looking for gigs?  
    I was doing it because my wife was ushering me along.  "let me see your resume", became a fight about not doing the resume.  To shut her up I did the resume.  Not because I wanted to or even thought I needed to, I just wanted her to SHUT UP, and stop being such a bitch about it.  Then it was "find any jobs today, what were the details?"  when I'd answer "a few new jobs on careerbuilder, and dice, nothing I'm qualified for, they want MCSE as a requirement".  She'd ask about "did you check the county?  Did you check with CDW? did you ______? did you ______?"  and make me feel guilty about my lack of effort.  

    She was the impetus to go get the MCSE and other certs.  She'd ask if I did any studying for the tests, I'd of course procrastinate, so she said "there's gotta be schools where you can go and just knock this stuff out, find out about that".  Thinking she'd never go for an 8,000 dollar school I tried to throw that up as a roadblock.  "call about loans, you need to go there, or you'll never do it, I just got my schooling, we'll pay for your schooling too, you have to go".

    Really not being around my wife for 2+ weeks really made me miss her too, and see the good that I was getting in addition to the endless griping about my work situation.  

    Thank god for her endless bitching.  She taught me to grow up.

    you need to go defcon 5 on his ass.  "If momma ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy". Make it more uncomfortable to do nothing than to be uncomfortable working his ass off trying to find work.  If he doesn't respond, then I'm sorry you wasted your life on such an impudent loser.  Maybe give him a few weeks of vacation from you.  He'll figure it out.
    Most women unwittingly ruin the sex as a reward by being so shitty in bed during the sex, that it becomes a form of punishment rather than a reward. - Athol Kay.
  • EulaEula Member Posts: 25
    Ok thanks for the clarification. She really started riding your butt otherwise he wouldn't have done anything?

    I guess I need to start riding it every day. 

    I suspect your wife would have been mad as heck if you did the course and did nothing with it.

    He had the opportunity to sit for a CISCO exam after the course and I even bought him a lab of switches and routers and guess what, he used them a couple times and they are sitting collecting dust.

    We were apart for nearly 2 months when I went to another state to look for a new job. He was doing the course and did paint a few rooms and clean up the house a bit when he thought we were moving to Sydney.

    He is still wanting to move there but is unwilling to do anything to get there. If we were to go it would all be on me.

    He is still laying on the sofa sleeping. He knows how weak I am and what a pushover I am so he is probably waiting for me to cave in and go back to business as usual.

    I am really not this time. He is going to have to grow up or I am gone. 

    The sad thing is growing up would certainly benefit him more than it would benefit me. He just doesn't see it that way as it is easy to sit on the sofa and do nothing.



  • EulaEula Member Posts: 25
    Question, it is probably obvious but I am still learning here. These things he is pouting about and asking me to do are shit tests? 
  • BoneDaddyJiveBoneDaddyJive Chronically TurgidSilver Member Posts: 1,001
    I can't imagine being out of work for a month, let alone a year. I'd be unloading trucks at the grocery store or digging trenches. How does nobody do that? Layabouts are right up there with rapists and pedophiles in the repehensibility of their action
    All humans. This business of love. You have devoted much literature to it. Why do you build such a mystique around a simple biological function?
    - KELINDA Star Trek TOS, "By any other name"
  • BrutusBrutus Member Posts: 45
    OMG! Your husband sounds like my oldest brother. If he has some of the same disorders maybe his history could serve as a warning for you. My brother married young, dropped out of college and and quickly devolved into the same jobless/uselessness as your husband. When our parents had him psych evaled for depression etc. the Dr.s reply was that he could not perscribe any drugs because the only thing wrong with him was he was incredibly immature (entitled teenager mentality). Faced with ultimatums, he locked himself in the bedroom and threatened to kill himself with a knife. Our father had to leave guests in the lurch to rush over and talk him down. He didn't get better and his wife continued to support the family with her paycheck. Next it was an overdose of sleeping pills with the kids in the house! The ER psych at the hospital was later yelling at him for being so inconsiderate of his children and wife to do that in their house. Again, it was all about him and nothing at all about the family. His wife divorced and my parents helped in raising the two daughters. He has since continually borrowed money and never repaid it (I refused further lending after $3000). He will land an ok job and get by for months or even several years. But then he will just sit in his apartment, stop working, stop paying any bills until he is evicted. At that point he suddenly gets a new job and goes on, but never a thought to changing long term or ever repaying past debts; and always the talk of how this job or that investment could make a fortune. This latest episode this year, my parents gave him money to keep him from becoming homeless. Despite his passive agressive pleading, I never game him any money. Surprise! He gets another rental at the last instant and is sounding less depressed when I talk to him on the phone. If your husband is like my brother, there is no real depression, just immaturity. He will never get better and will only perform when everyone else that loves him stops enabling him. This isn't something like depression that can be treated. He will never really grow up and change. But he will suck up all the monetary and emotional support given, and remain depressed and lazy while able. I hope your husband is not like my brother, but if he is, you need to get out of your marriage unless you are able to live with how he is now for the rest of your life.
  • EulaEula Member Posts: 25
    Knowing that he lied to me and deceived me for over a year is really sinking in and I am so very hurt by it all. I'm really angry about it. 

    I have stayed in my office all day. I don't even want to talk to him.
  • BoneDaddyJiveBoneDaddyJive Chronically TurgidSilver Member Posts: 1,001
    No kids == dump him. Run the FAP in NZ. Really, there is no excuse for that kind of morbid laziness. You get one life, and you are with a guy who doesn't even value his own life, let alone yours.

    unless his side is drastically different from yours, like he is lazy because he has a $10 million trust fund or something.

    Funny, this bugs me much more than the guy who's cheating on his wife. Because just as withholding sex is a form of cheating on the marriage contract, so is not providing for the family when you are physically able to do so.

    I often have weird fantasies about my company going down the shitter and having to take a menial job that gives me a great workout every day. And I love my current job as small business owner sitting behind a monitor.

    All humans. This business of love. You have devoted much literature to it. Why do you build such a mystique around a simple biological function?
    - KELINDA Star Trek TOS, "By any other name"
    SerenityPhoenixDown[Deleted User]
  • Joskin_NoddJoskin_Nodd AshwanSilver Member Posts: 4,045
    @Eula; " He doesn't drive and refuses to learn."

    Um. Well then.

    You had to know this before you got married.

    If you get married again, be more choosy. Employed and able to drive a car being at the top of the list.

    "There are no right biscuits." – Mandrill

    Serenity[Deleted User]brotherdanceRico
  • Joskin_NoddJoskin_Nodd AshwanSilver Member Posts: 4,045
    @x1134x: "My plan was to prove to her that even with all the stuff she wanted from me, she wouldn't be happy, and she'd just want more. (I was right about this)."

    Of course. You can't make someone happy. You've got to decide if you are being the best you you can be, and, if not, go about being the best you you can be. Underemployed and sleeping in and smoking weed is not the best you you could be (as you realize). But at some point you are the best you in these areas anyone can be, and it's still not enough. The bar keeps moving.

    Because legitimate complaints can transition into fitness tests quite easily. Reasonable can turn to unreasonable very smoothly (Hamsters practice that maneuver). The real fitness test is: can you tell the difference? A demand to become employed and show an ability to get to work and pay the bills and still take care of the yard is reasonable. It's a demand that you do something you should be doing anyway. A demand to go confront your boss and demand a 10% raise after you've only worked there for 6 months and you're making at the top end of income for people in your field anyway is a fitness test. A demand that you try out a job offer your dubious about, just to see if it will work, is reasonable. A demand that you stay in a job that is dangerous, soul-destroying, or where the company might be doing something illegal and you want out with no immediate new job on the horizon is a fitness test. 

    But, yes, no matter how good things are, they are never good enough. My wife complains that we're poor, but poor to her (and, I think, most Hamsters) means: not enough money to buy everything we want, or even 90% of everything we could possibly want. So as long as you can't afford a new car every six months and new furniture every year and three cruises a year and so on and so forth, your poor. If you ever have to finance a new washer because the old one exploded and you don't immediately have the cash (without raiding the kids college funds), you're poor. Despite having cell phones and satellite TV and two cars and a roof over your head, etc., etc. 

    "Thank god for her endless bitching.  She taught me to grow up."

    Well, the bitching can serve a purpose. It often does obligate guys to stop being man-boys and get on to the first part of being men (meeting their obligations). Alas, most of us over beta in that process. When I first moved in with my wife, she did all the laundry. Picked up after me. My attitude was: well, if she wants to do that, great. One less thing for me to do. Then, after about a month, she went nuclear, out of fucking nowhere, and I had no response for it. If only I knew then what I know now . . .

    Needless to say, I eventually adapted to her superior system of doing laundry (in truth, my system, of waiting until everything was dirty, overloading the washer, and then doing a dozen loads over a Saturday, assuming I remembered to check on them, was not terribly efficient). And there are many areas where my wife's bitching has helped make me a better guy, it's just (a) I should have slapped back on the tone and approach, which I do now, but undoing 20 years of bad training is hard work, and (b) there comes a point where the bar has moved to far, and she cannot tell the difference between legitimate complaints and Hamster-driven nonsense. So that also requires a slap back.

    "There are no right biscuits." – Mandrill

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