How to smother a Starfish

LiquidSound

liquid said:

And - I would not stop sex in the middle, as I know it would demoralize him.

I completely agree with this. 2 1/2 weeks ago, just before my hubby started the TRT, he pulled this. He said that "it just isn't working" and that I wasn't "enough into it" as I was raking my fingernails down his back. Talk about one hurt and angry female.

Things are much better now, 3 T injections later, but I'm still not pleased with the way I was treated that night.

Want2bFO

AlphaBelle said:

I call it starfish attraction, and it's something I have refused to ignore anymore. Showing passion and then being treated like your body and sexuality is "meh..." is not love or even kindness. Whatever the cause, lowT or true lack of attraction or porn overdoses or being in his head or whatever, it is absolutely soul crushing. I wouldn't hesitate to stop in the middle of sex if that were happening. In fact, I have. If he can kick it into gear to cheer for his football team, he can kick it into gear to have 30 minutes of sex with his wife.

Oh my, you've had sex with my H too?

Want2bFO

DaveBowman said:

I wouldn't recommend bailing during sex.

Instead, if you're already doing the deed, I recommend going wild 'n crazy and at least trying to have fun for yourself.

If you're not already doing the deed, I recommend making him chase you. Lead, tempt, tease... make him work for it.

As I sent the @ to you I already knew that your reply would be along those line. Surely YOU would never pass up sex of any kind....made me giggle to read it. ;;)

Serenity

Another thought.  T levels are highest in the morning and drop off during the day. 

My husband's libido is very high in the morning, and declines during the day to the point where by 11pm, he's just done.  If we wait until late at night, the sex is never as good.  We try to be in the bedroom by 9:30, 9:45 at the latest.  It really makes a huge difference.

Want2bFO

Serenity said:

Another thought.  T levels are highest in the morning and drop off during the day. 

My husband's libido is very high in the morning, and declines during the day to the point where by 11pm, he's just done.  If we wait until late at night, the sex is never as good.  We try to be in the bedroom by 9:30, 9:45 at the latest.  It really makes a huge difference.

Geez Louise...I hear my mom talking. She always use to say that healthy couples go to bed early. Perhaps this is what she meant.

Want2bFO

LiquidSound said:

And - I would not stop sex in the middle, as I know it would demoralize him.

I completely agree with this. 2 1/2 weeks ago, just before my hubby started the TRT, he pulled this. He said that "it just isn't working" and that I wasn't "enough into it" as I was raking my fingernails down his back. Talk about one hurt and angry female. Things are much better now, 3 T injections later, but I'm still not pleased with the way I was treated that night.

Ouch....that smarts.

liquid

Serenity said:

But you have to use self-discipline. The problem with we HD women is that we want it so bad that we have a hard time denying ourselves.  Use your self-control and play the long game.

This is the most helpful thing I have ever read here. Thanks!

PhoenixDown

I'd buy a new toy, name it some other guy's name, and tell him I'm taking care of myself until he can get his ass to the doctor to get himself sorted out. You don't need to put yourself through that hell, and he needs to know that you have enough self worth that you're not willing to put yourself through it. Just my opinion.

KatherineKelly

@Want2bFO  In general I read what all the women on the forum post but I try to avoid sharing my thoughts with those woman who are so very different from me that I sound like a lunatic when I offer help.

Because I am a lunatic this is difficult. I have a high degree of BSC in me but for some reason this is what keeps my BF around.  Probably because of how it plays out in the bedroom and he certainly can never say he is bored.

There is a certain feminine energy or intenseness that is what fuels this BSC that I must sense in a woman before I feel there is a connection between her and I where what works for me in the real world may work for her.

Women that are strongly pragmatic, rational and logical usually find me ridiculous and child like because I'm so intensely emotional which is also where my artistic and creative sensibilities come from.

I may be able to write rationally and logically but that is almost opposite how I actually live because I always live in the heart and emotions and my relationships with men have always been volatile and I would not have it any other way.

I do not know how to give advice to women who are not volatile themselves and my advice could actually be harmful to her, so I try to avoid it.

I love men but I could never be in a relationship with a man who I could not " make war on" because I need this and from this it is the glue that binds us together.

Without this "war making" there would be no sex.

My neighbors probably think I'm in an unhealthy relationship but I believe it is very healthy and that is partly from its volatility.

I do not do this intentionally but simply by remaining true to my nature as my feminine intensity that I do not apologize for.

I do not disrespect him but I need to "joust" with him or I become restless and bored plus his willingness to fight with me sexually excites me.

Sexually sometimes I'm like a cat purring and brushing against his legs letting him know that I want him but other times I need to fight and make up, so my sexual energy has different expressions.

It takes a very strong man to handle my emotional volatility that partly comes out of my sexuality but he is rewarded because it stimulates his own sexuality.

We have opposite energies like oil and water but he has the strength to accommodate me because I protect him from me so it is a partnership where each recognizes that the differences that result in us fighting are also necessary to keeping us together.

It is possible that sexual problems enter into a relationship when a man and woman are "to similar" and if you think this may be true for you than you may want to cultivate your differences as long as you do not dishonor your true self by forcing yourself to become what you are not.

It is difficult for me to imagine couples that never fight having passionate sex lives because for me the sex comes form the intense attraction and also from being intensely repelled and all this is created by that which is similar mixed with that which is different.

A nice girl and a nice boy will have nice sex until they stop having sex altogether.

 

Serenity

I've been really thinking about this thread in a deeper way than just the teasing provocation stuff.

I think it is a major mistake to 'tap out' during the act and this is why. The goal here for all of us is to introduce positive energy into our lives, marriages and sex lives.  Stopping in the middle would basically be a huge surge of negative energy for both of you. It introduces a note of anger and resentment that you don't want present in the bedroom.

I'm thinking of something that Athol said on another thread and I think it applies to women as well as men.

Athol_Kay said:

Have positive sexual experiences with him.

The whole point of the Red Yellow Green is to stop the negative sexual experiences when she doesn't like the fact he's fucking her and to embrace the more positive sexual experiences of the Yellow and Green nights.Every time a woman starfishes with you, she likes you less.Every time a woman has a good sexual experience with you, she likes you more.It's incremental little adjustments in feeling, but it's real.

Every time your husband has a good sexual experience with you, he likes you more. Stopping in the middle is effectively telling him that he's a lousy lover and doesn't add to the positive feelings you're wanting to create around sex.

On a personal note and the reason this thread has struck a chord with me, my husband and I had an analogous situation not that long ago.  Not the same as yours, but with a similar feel to it.  I handled it very badly and it threw us into a negative spiral that took 4 or 5 days to get out of and whose residual effects we're still feeling.

Keep his sexual experiences as positive as you can.  Provocative teasing that increases his desire = yes.  Making him feel crappy about sex with you = no.

Want2bFO

Serenity said:

Keep his sexual experiences as positive as you can.  Provocative teasing that increases his desire = yes.  Making him feel crappy about sex with you = no.

You are forever the voice of reason. And you are absolutely right. I have never tapped him out. I just didn't know if that would help but now in reading all this a chewing on it I think I found my way.He is so much better. The Sexting is insane. The future plans even better. He has pounded me through the mattress but he is Hot then Cold. The cold part scares me. The HRT is still new, not yet regulated. I will be patient. I will be positive. As always , thank you. Your username suits you.

DaveBowman

AlphaBelle said:

I call it starfish attraction, and it's something I have refused to ignore anymore. Showing passion and then being treated like your body and sexuality is "meh..." is not love or even kindness. Whatever the cause, lowT or true lack of attraction or porn overdoses or being in his head or whatever, it is absolutely soul crushing. I wouldn't hesitate to stop in the middle of sex if that were happening. In fact, I have. If he can kick it into gear to cheer for his football team, he can kick it into gear to have 30 minutes of sex with his wife.

Maybe he's just a shitty lay and needs some education.

Lotsa people are afraid to let their freak flag fly.

Want2bFO

 

KatherineKelly said:

@Want2bFO 

Because I am a lunatic this is difficult. I have a high degree of BSC in me but for some reason this is what keeps my BF around.  Probably because of how it plays out in the bedroom and he certainly can never say he is bored.

 

I do not know how to give advice to women who are not volatile themselves and my advice could actuall be harmful to her, so I try to avoid it.

Without this "war making" there would be no sex.

I do not do this intentionally but simply by remaining true to my nature as my feminine intensity that I do not apologize for.

I do not disrespect him but I need to "joust" with him or I become restless and bored plus his willingness to fight with me sexually excites me.

A nice girl and a nice boy will have nice sex until they stop having sex altogether.

 

@katherineKelly

First let me say that I think you really are BSC but I mean that in a positive, loving way. A person must be true to their own character. Otherwise your life is a falsehood.  You know yourself, which is a lovely thing. You know what turns you on and what keeps you going. So be as nuts as you want to be....conformity sucks.

Which also means that I can not be what I am not. I am very much not "emotionally volatile". I am an achiever. I know my destination, I plan a route, I prepare for detours. I could never live happily as you do and you would die living like me.

We have been married a long time and our relationship has been everything and more than I ever dreamed I could have in a husband. Which is why I feel this low-T time in his life so deeply. I miss what was but we will have it again.I felt like smacking you on the Nice Sex part. I hate nice sex, Don't want nice sex. I want the poundtown-break-the-bed-ouchie-I-hurt-the-next-day kind of sex. I may be nice to him, I may be nice to people but not nice in sex. Hugs to you. You're nuts and you're mind is fascinating.

@-)

The_Dude

Serenity said:

Another thought.  T levels are highest in the morning and drop off during the day. 

My husband's libido is very high in the morning, and declines during the day to the point where by 11pm, he's just done.  If we wait until late at night, the sex is never as good.  We try to be in the bedroom by 9:30, 9:45 at the latest.  It really makes a huge difference.

I never heard this. I explains a lot of my experience. If we dily daly around till 11 I often lose the mojo.

ddad

@Want2bFO ignoring the fact you are a woman if we give you the same response I would give a man then....  Initiate, it is his 'duty' to give you what you want.  If he doesn't you OI or if he starfishes you 'ride the heck out of him' and get yours. 

Isn't that what we would tell a man in the same spot?

Serenity

@The_Dude ; Yup, he very rarely loses an erection anymore, but if it's late at night, sometimes even the Cialis can't keep him going. Which stinks all the way around.

It took us both a while to realize this, and it would throw us back into the dark days when things went south. <heh>  Not that long ago, it finally clicked what was going on and what a relief. Now, we just go to bed earlier.

The_Dude said:

Another thought.  T levels are highest in the morning and drop off during the day. 

My husband's libido is very high in the morning, and declines during the day to the point where by 11pm, he's just done.  If we wait until late at night, the sex is never as good.  We try to be in the bedroom by 9:30, 9:45 at the latest.  It really makes a huge difference.

I never heard this. I explains a lot of my experience. If we dily daly around till 11 I often lose the mojo.

Want2bFO

CubicleZ7 said:

Want2bFO said:

I can easily expect a good pounding once a week. I get lots of sexts and I am no longer invisible. But, there has been the starfish thing occasionally and I wanted to post this to see how to handle it.  The T levels cant be normal yet and there is still work stress. I am my worse enemy. Patience is not my fortitude.

 

Well, IIRC, the sex is MUCH better than it used to be.  As long as he's keeping up with his HRT (and it's working as it should), I think you should give him a little leeway when it comes to the occasional visit from Mr. Starfish.  Look at him like an injury/stroke patient re-learning to use some of his limbs.  It can be an arduous process, but in the right hands he can/should make a full recovery.  Patience may not be your forte, but you may have to learn.  IMHO, he's already come pretty far in a relatively short period of time. 

^Please take the above comment with a grain of salt.  I'm not exactly the world's foremost expert when it comes to HD women!^        =((

Friend, you worded it perfectly and you are correct. For one nano second I thought that "tapping out" would be a good thing. I really was thinking with the wrong body part.  He has come a huge way. Not just sexually but I see his energy so much better at work even though the stress really has not let up at all. You know I am going to do one better. I'm just going to let him be the man. Chase me a bit. I can survive another month or so . Even more.  This post has a lot to do with  kitty leading my head instead of the other way around.

:P

DaveBowman

AlphaBelle said:

AlphaBelle said:

I call it starfish attraction, and it's something I have refused to ignore anymore. Showing passion and then being treated like your body and sexuality is "meh..." is not love or even kindness. Whatever the cause, lowT or true lack of attraction or porn overdoses or being in his head or whatever, it is absolutely soul crushing. I wouldn't hesitate to stop in the middle of sex if that were happening. In fact, I have. If he can kick it into gear to cheer for his football team, he can kick it into gear to have 30 minutes of sex with his wife.

Maybe he's just a shitty lay and needs some education.

Lotsa people are afraid to let their freak flag fly.

I'm easy that way. /:) Virgin men who marry easy going HD good-girl virgins who were raised in convents don't have to be porn stars in bed.

There's your problem.

Too easy.

Make it hard.

Make him jump through hoops.

446

I am not low-T.  I want sex and lots of it.

Just not with my wife.

I worked and worked to get where I am and now I don't want her.

I know that it is hurtful to "go through the motions".  So I wait until I am actually feeling attraction.  She turns me down; I go OI.  If she initiates, I only go for it if I am feeling attraction; otherwise, no go.

My wife is also refusing to address the big structural attraction issues between us: 1) snoring/weight 2) near-zero oral 3) defiance on no-contact plan

These are huge.  There is also a serious lack of girl-game and some male hypergamy going on.  It's ugly.  She wants me and the marriage BAD now. She could have responded a long time ago in my MAP, but she didn't and she is still not running her own MAP.  

So after ruling out medical, rule out structural attraction.  Since OP's husband is medical, you can't MAP medical.

I just wanted it out there that not all guys that aren't chasing their wives around the bed are low-T.  Some are based on her structural attraction issues.  (Not that I didn't play a part in those structural issues becoming the norm.)

Want2bFO

 

The_Dude said:

@serenity Another thought.  T levels are highest in the morning and drop off during the day. 

I never heard this. I explains a lot of my experience. If we dily daly around till 11 I often lose the mojo.

I knew this. That's why there are morning erections. Also T-level lab work has to be done in the morning. By late afternoon the levels change. If a patient has a barely OK Tlevel early morning , by evening it will drop.  Moral of the story: f8ck at sunrise and sunset..