Wife done having kids, reduces my value?

PupPup Silver Member Posts: 346
Hi Athol and gentlemen.

The quick version is: **How do I get my head right about not being needed for the one thing I think I am best at - getting her pregnant like clockwork?**

I'm going to give you a verbose bio for your context, I hope you don't mind.

I discovered the "manosphere" about a month ago when I realized I was "not right" with something in myself, my life, my marriage.  I've been married 7 years... I started looking for answers and ended up here, among other "red pill" places like Chateau Heartiste.  I did buy and read the Primer, (I'm at around page 300) and there's lots of good stuff in it, but much of it doesn't apply to me.  I am a 7 and my wife is a 5-6 and I already fully control the relationship...I have lots of sex with my wife, but recently feel betaized...needy, insecure and I hate it.  I'm naturally a heathly mix of alpha and beta, playing each fairly effectively in my marriage, until this summer/fall.

I'm not bragging, but to give background, my wife and I have lots of sex, nearly every night.  She does almost every bit of housework and leaves me to do what I please.  I make over 130k and have to do almost nothing for it at my job (another issue about my own sense of "worth").  I'm 39, 6'1" and 190lbs.  I'm a decent looking guy, have had sex with about 10 women in my life, my wife had sex once before me (sounds like BS, but we discussed at length and it is the truth) and my wife and I even discussed our hotness ratings and I'm something like a 7, and was when we met.  She's something like a 5.5 or 6, and was a 7 when we met.  I have her dominated and am in control of the relationship...I have it made.  I can buy what I want, go where I want, say what I want, etc.  We have three kids 5, 3, and 1.5 that I am confident are mine, and she does most of the care and feeding for them.  I play with them and discipline them, she feeds, clothes and cleans them.  I help around the house occasionally, and always when she asks.  She works and makes $90k a year in a job she loves and can buy what she wants.  We are both happy with this marriage - Again, I have it made.  This is especially true when comparing notes with guy friends of mine.  In this relationship I have historically been a very healthy mix of alpha and beta, until recently it seems.

****The only thing I think may be lacking is her lack of demonstrative desire and lust for me.****  There is little sexual attraction shown toward me, unless we are in bed.  I have never gotten a random spontaneous blowjob in the hallway from her, we only have sex in the bed, I asked her to write me a sexy email, etc.   I've mentioned these things to her and she's tried to be a little more affectionate, but it hasn't had much of an affect on my perception. Not a lot has changed, save a little extra hand holding type of stuff, which is a start.  Like you say, her attraction to me isn't a choice, it's chemical/biological.  I sort of feel that she loves me, but may not be "in love" with me, but she does put out 100% with my advances.  On top of that, she's just not a very sexual person.  She didn't lose her virginity until she was 29 and that was a few months before she met me.  We've talked about it at length and I believe that to be the truth.  When we first met she actually lied and told me she had been with 1 MORE guy because she was embarrassed about her true lack of sexual experience.  She came clean about 5 years into our marriage that she has only had sex ONE time before me, with some guy she didn't really care about at all - just to get the weight of virginity off of her chest.  She went to Catholic school and was kind of chubby most of her life, with body image issues.  She has run 5 marathons...She's not fat, but a little chubby/hippy, 5'7" and 170lbs.  None of this is a real problem, because she really gets it done for me in the bedroom and she has a beautiful face and her body turns me on.  I get ANYTHING I want in the bedroom and she is very responsive during sex.  She even knows I have had a thing for her sister for years, and is cool with that.  I try to build her confidence and self image by telling her I think she's sexy and feeling her up, kissing her, etc. outside the bedroom.  

I have already acknowledged to her and myself that while my job pays very well, I feel worthless there because there is literally nothing to do most of the time.  The company I work for is struggling and I have been living under the threat of layoff for two years.  But it's not really a "problem" because I am getting paid $130k plus for doing nothing for 6 hours a day.  I do know it weighs on my own perceived value, however.  I believe this job situation on its own would have been acceptable because it's been like this for a long time, and my mood was okay until recent months.

It seems to me that I should be happy as a pig in shit, but something is eating at me.  

We sort of knew after our youngest was born that 3 kids was enough, and I told her the choice was hers because she does most of the work and would have to carry the majority of the burden of another kid...but she has recently *made up her mind* that three is enough.  I think this may be the source of some of my angst.   I feel like giving her my top quality sperm and getting her pregnant on demand was one thing that she "needed" from me.  We have three kids, all born between April 5 and April 10 of 2008, 2010, and 2012.  I'm a sperm sniper!!!  **Now that part of my value is officially a liability, instead of an asset.** Without her conscious desire to have sex with me for babies, I think I am becoming depressed.  I am displaying low value (being the one who is *more* affectionate, needy, talking about "us", etc) and am depressed, despite having a great life.  I try to talk to her about it, which just brings her down, and lowers my value further.  

Do you think my wife deciding that she doesn't (want/need my cock any more for) babies can have this affect on my sense of self-worth?   I know it makes sense to limit the number of kids we have to something manageable, but I feel like without her needing me to impregnate her, I have just lost a HUGE percentage of my value to her.  

****How do I get my head right about not being needed for the one thing I think I am good at?****  By the way, I think part of my attraction to her sister, besides her strong personality, 6' build, long legs, great ass and perfect boob job, is that she is in the reverse situation with her husband, and for years has desperately wanted to have a 4th kid that her husband doesn't.

Thanks for taking the time to read about my situation.  Any perspectives you can offer, given your limit knowledge of my situation will be greatly appreciated.

Pup

Comments

  • JesusMarimbaJesusMarimba Silver Member Posts: 1,282
    How old are you? Mebbe you're rockin a mid-life crisis?
    [Deleted User]Pup
  • JesusMarimbaJesusMarimba Silver Member Posts: 1,282
    @Pup said:

    But it's not really a "problem" because I am getting paid $130k plus for doing nothing for 6 hours a day.  

    That's a big part of your problem right there. You don't have anything to 'strive' for.

    Up until now, I'm betting you're mission has been to have children. Now that your youngest is out of infancy and you're getting his routine down, the chaos at home is settling down and you're feeling like a 5th wheel.

    You need a Mission to give your life meaning. 
    [Deleted User]MaterStellieTigerPup
  • MasterOfTheUniverseMasterOfTheUniverse USASilver Member Posts: 507

    You sound like a very "goal-oriented" person, which is a nice Alpha characteristic. It backfires when you run out of goals. I was on a nice trajectory for most of my career, then everythig flattened out. The biggest troubles in my marriage not coincidentally coincided with the slowdown. I ended up in a high-paying job that didn't demand much, and I got bored, and my wife got bored with me. Plus, without the distraction of my job, I turned the focus to my wife (thinking the exact same thoughts that you did sometimes). It made things worse, because it came off as super-needy.

    My advice? Look for a new job, or start a business on the side. You need to have more professional goals to take the pressure off of your relationship. I know that's easier said than done in this economy (and for God sakes DON'T quit your current job), but you need to channel all that ambition. Even if it's getting involved more with a favorite charity or non-profit - anything to redirect all that energy.

  • PhoenixDownPhoenixDown TejasGold Women Posts: 10,632
    How much time do you spend with your children?

    [Deleted User]MaterStellie
  • Monkeys_UncleMonkeys_Uncle RuralGold Men Posts: 4,045
    edited October 2013
    How are you guys going to deal with birth control now that you are finished having kids?   That can definitely factor in to how things play out.  

    After I got a vasectomy, a combination of getting off hormonal birth control and associating sex as a purely recreational activity did something to my wife's head that took our sex life to the next level.  

    Although the manosphere can be pretty down on vasectomies, and has more than a few stories where things went the opposite direction, so it's one of those things where you just have to make an informed decision for yourself.    Either way, the decision on how to proceed with birth control will make a difference in how good your sex life will be in the coming years.

    "My advice to you is get married:  if you find a good wife you'll be happy, if not, you'll become a philosopher." -Socrates

    MaterStellie
  • PupPup Silver Member Posts: 346
    Thanks for all the comments. Jesus, Master of the universe are close to right on.  Maybe just reading your responses to my own situation helps me see it more objectively.

     I'm 39, and yes, contemplating the possibility that this is a "mid life crisis", although I'm not sure what that really means.  I understand also that I don't make a lot of sense, and that's why I am confused about the source of and solution to my irrational problem.  It's not a very secure feeling right now.  I think a lack of direction is probably a big part of it. 

    I'm not lukewarm on my wife, I'm deeply in love with her and find her very attractive.  Nothing about her behavior or appearance has changed for the worse, it is that I have become more needy.  Without much else to occupy my mind, I have starting paying too much attention to her.  I think the comments about not having something to "strive for" are accurate.  Not having a goal or a mission is part of the problem.  I did start a website and FB page that I spent a lot of time on between Feb and Aug - It has over 25k fans on FB and the webpage even generates a little money. During the time I was heavily focused on that she became jealous that I was spending too much time with the laptop, and not enough time with her.   Our sex life suffered, so, I dialed that back and focused more on my wife. 

    I love my kids, (girl, boy, boy,) and raising them well and being a good leader for them is critical to me.  I spend about 3 hours with them on weekdays and all weekend with them.

    I am still coming to learn about the philosophy being discussed on this and other "red pill" websites, but I do agree strongly that I need a "mission".  I need to have something that will keep me engaged and productive and less focused on my wife.  I have started going to Krav Maga classes to get in better shape, learn to fight, and build confidence.  But I think that still won't provide a mission or goal, and is only a diversion.  Maybe I raise my sex ranking by 1/2 point, but so what, she already finds me attractive enough to have regular sex with.  Solution to a problem I don't have.

    What I am not seeing in the comments to far is that not making more kids is really a big deal.  I guess other guys don't worry about their wives not wanting more kids, maybe because you guys wanted to stop too.  Maybe I'm just looking for an answer in the wrong place? 

    The birth control has always been the pill.  When trying to make a baby, she would get off the pill and then become very horny and into me.  She was wetter, occasionally squirted, etc.  I would like her to get off the pill, and have actually discussed it with her, but the other options all have potential side effects (a baby she might not want being one of those side effects).  Vasectomy is always something I have been opposed to, but I suppose if we're done we're done.  I'd really like to get her hormones back in alignment - but what will a vasectomy do to my physically and mentally?

    Maybe I just need to "man up" but I am in a situation in my life for the first time.  I hate feeling needy and overly beta.  I contemplate backing off from her a bit, containing my desire to show her affection and just cool off.  I think that would just make her question what's wrong with me, because it would be out of character.  I really think the job/mission situation is the root cause of the problem, and not the "done making babies" thing, the more I think about it.

    Thanks again for the helpful comments everyone.
  • PhoenixDownPhoenixDown TejasGold Women Posts: 10,632
    Has she considered a copper IUD? Non hormonal and just as effective as the pill. (More so because you can't forget to take it one day)

    AngelineDanG
  • Monkeys_UncleMonkeys_Uncle RuralGold Men Posts: 4,045
    "I'd really like to get her hormones back in alignment - but what will a vasectomy do to my physically and mentally?"

    There are some horror stories out there, but for the vast majority of men there is no difference physically or mentally. 

    "My advice to you is get married:  if you find a good wife you'll be happy, if not, you'll become a philosopher." -Socrates

    [Deleted User]
  • PupPup Silver Member Posts: 346
    Her doctor recommended one of those things you implant for years at a time.  I didn't like the sound of that at all...then she heard about a friend that had a really bad experience with one of those and that ended that discussion.  Haven't discussed other IUDs...

    I didn't intend to give the impression that I am not attracted to my wife.  Quite the opposite.  I am very into her, very attracted to her, and give her attention as if she's a 9. 

    To the question about her being a 5 or 6, this might not sound nice, but you asked.  Again, I find her beautiful.  She has a pretty face and great teeth.  Her personality is absolutely amazing.  But she's 38, 170lbs, big but, hips, legs, a 3 baby stomach, A-cups that point down a little, stretch marks, veiny legs, dry skin - feet and hands especially.  I'm just trying to be objective.  Don't think because I can rattle those things off that I am turned off by her. All that doesn't matter to me......but it matters to her a lot. She doesn't feel sexy, but I try to tell her she is.
  • PhoenixDownPhoenixDown TejasGold Women Posts: 10,632
    @pup The Mirena can be a nightmare for some women. It's hormonal, and can totally kill sex drive and cause weight gain. The copper one (Paraguard) does stay in for 10 years at a time, but it's non hormonal, and the only side effects are that it can cause heavier periods for a few months after getting it, but it slacks off after a while. It's worth researching more, if nothing else.

    [Deleted User]Angeline
  • PupPup Silver Member Posts: 346
    @mamajune

    Hobbies used to be working on the house, garden, shooting, hunting (season starts soon) the webpage I started earlier this year...

    To your paragraph about showing desire.  In the mornings it is a frantic hussle to get my wife and three kids ready and out the door (she takes them to school/day care on her way to work.) There is no time for morning sex, affection or even words.  It's just panic and stress to get them out the door on time.  We might exchange 5 words in the morning.  During the day we may exchange an email or two.  Some days I'll pick up our daughter from school and she picks up the boys from day care.  When everyone comes home at the end of the day it's like "daddy day care" and chaos erupts.  She's trying to make dinner and I'm trying to corral the kids.  I'll usually give her a kiss and hug within a few minutes of getting home.  I'll sometimes sneak up behind her when she's cooking and give her a hug, kiss on the neck, etc.  I'll often grab her boob, ass, etc. in a playful way, but I think she's immune to my playful/perverted advances, especially when she's pre-occupied with cooking or stressed about the kids. I've been trying to start the "Ten second kiss" thing in the last few days.  Actually, yesterday she initiated a great one with tongue, and wasn't shy about it even though the kids were around, so I was impressed with that.  :)  I'd love to have her talk dirty to me...never happens outside the bedroom. 

    The reality is just that It's REALLY tough to find ten seconds for each other with all the kids, cleaning and dinner, etc.  Dinner comes out and we're usually in a hurry to eat and get the kids to eat and then clean up...bath time for kids, read them a book and off to bed with them...We get them to bed around 815PM.  Then our 3 year old comes out of his room and starts pissing us off.  It's normally about 9PM by time we can really exhale.  Then we are just whiped out.  I'll ask her to sit next to me, hold her hand, leg, etc.  I'll occassionally run my hands through her hair while she's relaxing, gently touch her neck...She'll be doing some cross-stich, watching TV, whatever.  Nothing starts on the couch - but it used to.  That ended probably two years ago. 

    Anyway, there really isn't a lot of time for being a "couple" until we go to bed around 10 or 11 anyway.  Kids are always around, housework is never ending, etc.  After reading "The "L" Spot" post I tried to help out more.  Did dishes while she was out, offered to do laundry (she declined, but appreciated). 

    I think the problem I have is 90% me (lack of mission?) and 10% her - if she could just step up the non-sexual contact/affection, (and she's trying a little)...but maybe it's her being on the pill, maybe it's her being older than she used to be, maybe it's her being tired.

    I'd sure love to get a sexy email from her.  Have her talk dirty to me outside the bedroom, spontaneous sex/bj, even dress nicely for me.  It's like we go into slob mode at home.  Jammies come out as soon as we get home.  But when she goes out to have dinner with her friends, she looks hot.  She could gain a 1-2 point on the sex rank if she would dress better at home.  But I know she wants to be comfortable at home, just like I do.  I have told her this, but feel like a beta - douchebag for doing so. 
  • PupPup Silver Member Posts: 346
    @mamajune

    Thanks.  It is exhausting. That's why she is sure she doesn't want any more.  I kind of still do.  I walked past a really cute baby girl yesterday and you probably know how cute little babies make you feel...

    You know, I'm still a little fuzzy on MAP.  Is there a MAP book? I read the MAP part of the Primer, but I'm still a little fuzzy.  Work out, dress better, find things to do outside of the home, flirt with women, fake/practice being alpha...I guess I have started by doing the working out thing, but I'm not a slob as is. 

    I think what I need is something to keep me busy since I don't have an occupation that makes me feel valuable, despite the income.  Funny you should mention - I have honestly been thinking about learning guitar, mostly because my wife has one she never plays just sitting there.  I was thinking about looking on Youtube for free lessons or something.  Maybe that's something.  In the fall I have hunting every Saturday, and love that. Plus there is something very therapeutic about being in the woods with a rifle, hunting...even if I don't get one.  I love bringing home meat to my family.  I LOVE seeing my family eat a deer I killed.  The thing about guitar is that it's not a useful or practical skill, so I sort of feel like it would be a waste of time.  Maybe I could swoon my wife with a song, but probably will just make an ass out of myself.  :)

    I should add, my wife and I met on our co-ed softball team.  I was not a stud, but attractive and athletic and social enough back when we met to bag her.  Well, since kids have come, I have been staying home while she plays, a couple of seasons ago she stayed home while I played.  So I have lost the social time, my outletic outlet, etc.  Meanwhile, she still gets all that and comes home and tells me about how much fun she had, who great she did, who said to say "hi" to me, etc.  It's a little depressing I guess.  I told her I want to play with her again.  That was a big mutual hobby we had that we have lost.  It feels pretty good to hit a HR or make a great catch in front of your wife.  When do I get to impress her with my athletic prowess?  In bed, that's it.
  • MasterOfTheUniverseMasterOfTheUniverse USASilver Member Posts: 507

    It's AMAZING how much calmer and easier it can be for the morning routine if you get up only 15-30 minutes earlier than normal. You can get stuff just a little more organized, so when the kids start pinballing all over the house, you are prepared.

    If she's initiating something as intimate as a 10 second french kiss, you're still doing something right! There's a discussion on another thread about what to do when you push the envelope with your partner. If she complies, you have to REALLY turn on the positive affirmations. "Oh baby, you were SO sexy when you dropped to your knees for me...." and, if you were a bit rough with her, be VERY comforting afterwards. I'm FAR from an expert, so maybe someone could link to that thread.

    I realize that I was pretty focused on the job and "mission" side of things, but don't lose yourself in it at the expense of your family. They want to see it energize you after a long day, and see the light come back on in your eyes - NOT hold up dinner for the 3rd time in a week because of your new "mission." That will get VERY old.
  • SerenitySerenity Senior Moderator** Posts: 11,358
    Hi and welcome to the Forum.

    More detail needed about your crush on the SIL.
    Pup said:
    She even knows I have had a thing for her sister for years, and is cool with that.  I try to build her confidence and self image by telling her I think she's sexy and feeling her up, kissing her, etc. outside the bedroom.  
    [Deleted User]redheaded_woman
  • PupPup Silver Member Posts: 346
    I've been working on the ten second kiss with her.  It's almost always a series of pecks, not a "french kiss."  I'm gradually trying to get her from pecks to more like a french kiss.  She seems a little uptight about that unless we are actively engaging in sex.

    I might look into the guitar thing. I also recently offered to take dance classes with my wife, because long ago she expressed an interest and I shot it down. 

    The SIL is similar looking to my wife in her face, hair.  There is no mutual attraction, and in fact I don't think she's much of a fan of me because I'm an outspoken conservative/libertarian and my wife votes with me, while SIL is a mindless lever puller for the Democrats...she's quite a bossy feminist alpha know it all (owns her husband) and she seems to want my wife to rule the roost like she does in her own home.  I don't allow her ideas to infect my home.  She used to pressure my wife to make me do more around the house, be more dominant, etc.  I've done a perfect job of stiff-arming that with the SIL and selling our marriage situation as ideal with my wife.  The attraction is purely just a physical thing of having a well built woman that resembles my wife around.  Bikinis by the pool, sexy work outfits, yoga and bicycle pants, etc.  It's normal stuff that any guy would enjoy seeing.  I've never pursued anything and never will.  However, I have fantasized about her frequently for years, and from time to time my wife will really bear a strong resemblance to her.  Wife has known for over a year that I think her sister has a nice body/legs.  I noticed that SIL got a boob job (in secret) and asked my wife, who had to admit that SIL got her boobs done.  The other day a friend of my wife's joked about me fantasizing about SIL and I played it off, but later confessed to my wife about having that fantasy.  Wife said she already knew and was not bothered by it at all, but suggested I not tell anyone else about it.  So the attraction isn't really attraction, beyond having a nice looking woman in close proximity quite often.
  • CaptainLOTOCaptainLOTO USASilver Member Posts: 43
    It sounds like your kids are running your lives. My wife & I were lucky enough to get into a parenting program when our first was born that taught us some great things. The biggest was that kids are additions to the family, they should not become the center of attention. It sounds impossible but we've seen I work over and over.

    Parenting is tough and draining but if the kids are the center of the universe, it's tough to have adult fun & energy.
    Pup
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