I'm hoping I misunderstood so to clarify, did she actually have sex with your brother when he said no to a 3 way?
It seems there is a lot more to clarify about this situation. If I am reading you correctly, you would have been OK with this provided that you were able to watch?
I am just wondering what your goals and expectations are for your marriage. Do you still want to have an open relationship, provided that you get to watch? Do you want to have an open marriage? Or, do you want to be faithful to your wife and have her be faithful to you?
I can't sort out the commuting, either. Is this right?
Home S--M--T--W--Th--F--S H--H--H--X---H--H--H W--------------------W
What did you mean when you said you left - you were both at home on the weekend, you left, and then she left for DC before you got back? Where did you go?
"Speak your truth." - Scarlet Remember to play! Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not. Be married, until you are not.
I would seem you do need to "alpha up" so-to-speak, because the one time you got the balls to "do something" about your frustration & sexual deprivation (however misguided what you did was, or wasn't- not going to judge you myself, man) your wife got attracted, was good to you- basically Hoovered you back into the fold. And she has a track record of treating you like scum when you're a Nice Guy.
So let's look at your words: "I fear that if I call her first, it will be seen as weak" Fear of what other people will think is beta.
Betas "fear what someone else will think"
Alphas are "concerned to hold course to reach the best outcome"
Betas are passive, Alphas are active.
Betas let imaginary thoughts of other people's opinions drive their actions, Alphas set their own course.
I think you can see where I'm coming from.
So I'm going to ask you: Why TF should you call her back at all?
Is there any upside to calling her back?
Do you even want to call her back?
What's the downside of calling her back?
Have you thought through how you will act if you were to call her back, or would you just kind of "wing it" "by the seat of your pants." Do you have a plan for what you'll do if she just starts verbally crapping all over you on the phone if you call her back? How would an alpha handle that? Do you have a plan for what you'll do if she's contrite?
In other words, climb into the driver's seat and take the reins.
Figure it out, and take action after you have a plan- your plan, not what your nice guy former alter ego thinks other people would want or expect.
And then, if calling her is not a good use of your time, fine, don't call her, or text her, unless it's responding to a civilized text about some necessary thing. Use the time before Monday to prepare yourself for her return (I'm presuming that will be a doozy, given your description of what's gone on thus far, heh.)
If calling her is a good use of your time, do it, and hold your frame, controlling the conversation and being willing to call in the chips and terminate if she won't play fair.
Concerning your question: "should I cave?" The trite answer would be "Alphas never cave- they always hold their frame" but perhaps a deeper question would be: What does this say about how I view the world, and my relationship with my wife?
I wonder if your wife hasn't already assumed you're divorcing her, if you haven't spoken in this long. Doesn't sound like there's much holding your marriage together for her to assume otherwise.
An additional comment I forgot to put in my earlier post @smcbain62
The reason I've been contrarian about not phoning or texting back is: I've actually seen radio silence, long radio silence as in 1-3 weeks, work wonders in some relationships where the woman was being abusive.
It gets their attention like nothing else can. I'm not exactly certain why yet, but my current working theory is that it turns the control equation on its head.
It's the guy equivalent of women withholding sex. Just like turning off the sex tap leads to desperation in men, withdrawing the one thing women have to have- attention- is the equivalent. Wakes 'em up pretty fast.
OK- there's the theory. Have at it. Light yer flamethrowers, ladies!
@Sman The problem with that is the relationship history... she seems like the type who would have no qualms with finding another man to "talk to" if he just disappeared.
And the OP hasn't really said whether or not he's ok with that, considering the thing with his brother...
@Sman The problem with that is the relationship history... she seems like the type who would have no qualms with finding another man to "talk to" if he just disappeared.
No question about that, @RedPillWifey , when the attraction ain't there, and there's a demonstrated willingness to go outside the fold, it can lead to all kinds of random things, just as in guys. She has demonstrated a positive response to dread game in the past, though, so who could call this with any certainty.
And you're right @smcbain62 needs to decide what risks & rewards he's willing to accept. I'll leave the ball in his court now.
(Still wouldn't mind some critique of my theory that attention is an important requirement for women though)
Very difficult situation to be in! Prime example of the need for triage. Her long history of infidelity SHOULD weigh on your mind. How could your brother do that? Drunk or not? I would done violent things to any of my brothers for doing that. Absolutely inexcusable. And her . . . I could not have taken her back after that.
Let me preface the rest by saying that you have 2 basic needs: 1) You need to decide what you want for your future. Do you want to stay with a woman who has been unfaithful to you since the relationship was "at it's best"? If so, there needs to be HUGE, fundamental changes in the relationship.
2) This may feed into #1 - you need to talk to someone, one on one, about this whole thing. Athol would be my personal choice, but if you have a counselor already, time to open up. You need one person who has total knowledge of the situation offering consistent advice - just my read on it.
Whether to call her or not - I see what @SMan is saying about not calling, but the bigger point he makes in the beginning, is that the Beta worries about what she will think. Why worry what she thinks?
Not calling her accomplishes what? Makes her worry? Gives her time with an affair? Gives her time to do whatever she wants. Given her history, I would highly doubt that she is sitting around worrying what you are thinking. To bring this up again, she had sex, with your brother in your own home while you slept 20 feet away - she obviously does not care what you think. Can you turn this around by becoming an Alpha stud? I am not so sure. Your comment on how infrequent sex is, yet the fact that you spend nights apart are a concern. As Athol says, she doesn't want to have sex with you because she feels like she is cheating on the other guy she is having sex with.
In summary, this may not be salvageable. It is an all in or all out decision. Good luck!
@Templar In reading his posts i think he was wanting to do a threesome (w brother) and it ended up being something different.
Part of me wonders if some of the results of his wife's behavior is in part due to "responsive desire" and him suggesting scenarios to get her motor going...or he was attempting to get her motor going and launched a rocket instead.
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It seems there is a lot more to clarify about this situation. If I am reading you correctly, you would have been OK with this provided that you were able to watch?
I am just wondering what your goals and expectations are for your marriage. Do you still want to have an open relationship, provided that you get to watch? Do you want to have an open marriage? Or, do you want to be faithful to your wife and have her be faithful to you?
Home
S--M--T--W--Th--F--S
H--H--H--X---H--H--H
W--------------------W
What did you mean when you said you left - you were both at home on the weekend, you left, and then she left for DC before you got back? Where did you go?
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
Http://www.mindfulattractionplan.com
Going to be a bit contrarian here @smcbain62
I would seem you do need to "alpha up" so-to-speak, because the one time you got the balls to "do something" about your frustration & sexual deprivation (however misguided what you did was, or wasn't- not going to judge you myself, man) your wife got attracted, was good to you- basically Hoovered you back into the fold. And she has a track record of treating you like scum when you're a Nice Guy.
So let's look at your words: "I fear that if I call her first, it will be seen as weak" Fear of what other people will think is beta.
Betas "fear what someone else will think"
Alphas are "concerned to hold course to reach the best outcome"
Betas are passive, Alphas are active.
Betas let imaginary thoughts of other people's opinions drive their actions, Alphas set their own course.
I think you can see where I'm coming from.
So I'm going to ask you: Why TF should you call her back at all?
Is there any upside to calling her back?
Do you even want to call her back?
What's the downside of calling her back?
Have you thought through how you will act if you were to call her back, or would you just kind of "wing it" "by the seat of your pants." Do you have a plan for what you'll do if she just starts verbally crapping all over you on the phone if you call her back? How would an alpha handle that? Do you have a plan for what you'll do if she's contrite?
In other words, climb into the driver's seat and take the reins.
Figure it out, and take action after you have a plan- your plan, not what your nice guy former alter ego thinks other people would want or expect.
And then, if calling her is not a good use of your time, fine, don't call her, or text her, unless it's responding to a civilized text about some necessary thing. Use the time before Monday to prepare yourself for her return (I'm presuming that will be a doozy, given your description of what's gone on thus far, heh.)
If calling her is a good use of your time, do it, and hold your frame, controlling the conversation and being willing to call in the chips and terminate if she won't play fair.
Concerning your question: "should I cave?" The trite answer would be "Alphas never cave- they always hold their frame" but perhaps a deeper question would be: What does this say about how I view the world, and my relationship with my wife?
An additional comment I forgot to put in my earlier post @smcbain62
The reason I've been contrarian about not phoning or texting back is: I've actually seen radio silence, long radio silence as in 1-3 weeks, work wonders in some relationships where the woman was being abusive.
It gets their attention like nothing else can. I'm not exactly certain why yet, but my current working theory is that it turns the control equation on its head.
It's the guy equivalent of women withholding sex. Just like turning off the sex tap leads to desperation in men, withdrawing the one thing women have to have- attention- is the equivalent. Wakes 'em up pretty fast.
OK- there's the theory. Have at it. Light yer flamethrowers, ladies!
No question about that, @RedPillWifey , when the attraction ain't there, and there's a demonstrated willingness to go outside the fold, it can lead to all kinds of random things, just as in guys. She has demonstrated a positive response to dread game in the past, though, so who could call this with any certainty.
And you're right @smcbain62 needs to decide what risks & rewards he's willing to accept. I'll leave the ball in his court now.
(Still wouldn't mind some critique of my theory that attention is an important requirement for women though)
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
Let me preface the rest by saying that you have 2 basic needs:
1) You need to decide what you want for your future. Do you want to stay with a woman who has been unfaithful to you since the relationship was "at it's best"? If so, there needs to be HUGE, fundamental changes in the relationship.
2) This may feed into #1 - you need to talk to someone, one on one, about this whole thing. Athol would be my personal choice, but if you have a counselor already, time to open up. You need one person who has total knowledge of the situation offering consistent advice - just my read on it.
Whether to call her or not - I see what @SMan is saying about not calling, but the bigger point he makes in the beginning, is that the Beta worries about what she will think. Why worry what she thinks?
Not calling her accomplishes what? Makes her worry? Gives her time with an affair? Gives her time to do whatever she wants. Given her history, I would highly doubt that she is sitting around worrying what you are thinking. To bring this up again, she had sex, with your brother in your own home while you slept 20 feet away - she obviously does not care what you think. Can you turn this around by becoming an Alpha stud? I am not so sure. Your comment on how infrequent sex is, yet the fact that you spend nights apart are a concern. As Athol says, she doesn't want to have sex with you because she feels like she is cheating on the other guy she is having sex with.
In summary, this may not be salvageable. It is an all in or all out decision.
Good luck!