Asperger Newbie with a buttload of other baggage

alcockell

Hi folks,

OK - so here's the beef - as I brought it up on one of the manosphere blogs - A Rational Male - Good Girls Do.

I am 42, always been single, chaste Baptist Christian, still a virgin.  Always the brother, never the boyfriend.
Diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome in 1987 - one of the first to be diagnosed here in the UK, as Hans Asperger's paperwork was only translated from the original German in 1985.
Due to the autism, my libido didn't boot up until about 18-19, only fully up and running at age 26.

I was the victim of low-level sexual abuse by female peers at chronological ages 13-18 - as I was functionally presexual at the time, the effect was as if I was 8 at the time.  Completely derailed my sexual development.  Caused me to massively gain weight due to traumatic eating cycle set up - I am currently 42 stone.  Add in the AIDS scare that was running at full strength (remember the John Hurt iceberg ads etc?), this probably cued in with my natural Aspie nature as "prey species" to quote Temple Grandin.

Based on running libido processes in a "sandbox" in me - using some of the porn-type media as test data to see what works and what doesn't, I believe I'm running a very monogamous model... but I have an inability to fantasise - more often having to work it all out from first principles using engineering and first-aid type knowledge, and info cribbed from Dorking Kindersley-type guides I occasionally read at Waterstone.

According to feedback on the RM page - my AS seems to preclude me from anything like "game" - as the realtime processing would simply be too mch - and go against the honest-to-a-fault brain wiring...

I'd like to know - is there any hope for me even starting out?  Or am i fundamentally broken from the abuse?

I do wonder what a Song-of-Songs highly passionate, tender, but SAFE sex life would be like... it's as though my need would be trust and commitment and HONESTY before I gave myself to a beloved...

alcockell

Oh - when I refer to "virgin" - apart from the malicious way my assailants touched me up and brought me off through my clothes (akin to being a Black and Decker Workmate for their burgeoning sexual power), forced to expose myself to escape a classroom etc...

I've experienced NOTHING.  So you're looking at a guy who'd be a blank slate going into a marriage at the mo.

Templar

Welcome!
A troubled past, for sure. There are some here who have some amazing insight and may be able to help.

MasterOfTheUniverse

Welcome! I have a touch of Aspie in me (mainly anxiety in high pressure social situations), and I bet that a lot of the men on here do as well. We gravitate to internet forums, because we can take time to organize our thoughts, and don't have to worry about immediate feedback from another person. (This is all probably obvious to you).

As far as getting some form of love/sex life, you need to practice basic human interactions. If you've read Temple Grandin, you see how she literally trained herself to function in person with other people. Social cues, social cues, social cues. I'm sure there are exercises you can find - just do them, every day. Instead of making your coffee at home, go to a coffee shop, and interact with the barista. Not flirt, just talk. Take note of his/her reactions, and adjust accordingly.

And, um, 42 stone? That's 588 pounds. You need to make that a HUGE priority. Use that logical mind and make a plan out of it. People have gotten good results from places like nerdfitness and stronglifts. BUT, at your weight, you need to see a doctor straight away, and get EVERYTHING checked out first. I'm sorry if this comes off as insensitive - you're well aware of what 588 pounds looks and feels like - but it's really a matter of life and death now.

I look forward to following your progress.

alcockell

One of the main areas of complete confusion is how, even in the last 3 months, ANY simulacra of sex is all geared towards the hypergamy/group/apparent "objectification" of women..

Even in the porn industry or phonesex industry - everything is geared towards this hypergamic "I'll take on anything" thing...

Anything transgressive - I can't seem to run at all - can't process "adultery" concepts - as I remember how much it hurt when Mum and Dad broke up.  SunshineMary talked about the male assess-everyone processes...
Me?  I run *threat assessments*.  I refer to "giving myself".  On, for example, the options on the HornyLines website, I built mental models from the profiles listed - and asked "If she was real and I was introduced to her, would I want to know this person".  Rather than the neurotypical "locate a fantasy that resonates, and deal with the woman as an object".  Even to the extent that, for example, I saw strange juxtapositions in the profile entries - and all I see now are dealbreakers as I see lots of cheating, woman-as-petri-dish (massive STI risk).  The nearest test data was from one who has apparently left.. but even then, when her profile entries etc alluded to monogamous nature - I ran it in the mental sandbox as if I was MARRIED to someone with those characteristics and drives.

I'm also recovering from cellulitis and leg ulcers so currently housebound and working from home.  But if I DO come out from this wall of fat.. is a raw beginner approaching 50, taking his first faltering steps, going to pass muster at all with today's women?  Or will I just get my heart ripped apart?  Considering the nature of AS...

BrianC

@alcockell, welcome to the forum.  We are glad to have you, and I do believe there is help here for you.

I was also a late bloomer; I was beaten and molested repeatedly by bullies when I was 13-15 and it essentially shut my sexuality off until I was about 18.  It took me about 10 years of hard lessons before I finally learned to let go of that trauma.  It had a lot of deleterious effects on my relationship with my wife.

After years of struggle and processing those experiences, I do not believe that there is anything that will "break" a human being without his or her permission. Your trauma, and the behaviours it creates are reversible by changing your frame.

While I do not have much experience with people who operate in the autism spectrum, I have a cursory understanding.  I know that people with Aspergers have trouble processing the information overload of nonverbal cues in human communication, and so have to be more selective than most as to what information they assimilate and respond to.  That would make "game" very difficult.

On the other hand, they are far more efficient than most people at learning step-by-step skill processes.  A person with aspergers who knows how to interact with a person on a step-by-step basis using tools like Assertive Communications methods can get amazing results.

In your case, I would say that if you are looking to find a lover or, I presume because of your faith, a wife, you could still build a healthy relationship with high attraction.  In your case, instead of applying it heuristically like most MAPpers, you'd need to focus on building good habits and skills one at a time to a point where they are habitual to help you use them without the active processing that they usually take.

There are several other people on the forum with Aspergers who are quite effective MAPpers, and are building good relationships, just by using the tools differently.

There is hope here for you.

BrianC

Part of that hope is to realize that "Red Pill" forums are presenting an incomplete model.  There are a lot of things that bring people together.

You are fundamentally loyal in a way few Men can be.  You are clearly intelligent, and articulate.  You are strongly religious.  There are women who find those things very attractive.  There are women out there who find intellect to be the greatest DHV - their particular idiom of hypergamy will make them prefer the smartest man around.

The biggest obstacle for you right off the bat will be fitness.  After that releasing any emotional trauma you may still carry from your abuse.  Then learning assertive communication and practising it until it becomes habit.  From there, a few simple communication habits and habits of dress could greatly improve your SMV.  Then you just need to make sure you have a career that lets your intellect benefit you in visible ways (i.e.: high income, fine clothing to display status, a reputation within a small community of experts).

All of these are simple, things that can be done in methodical fashion.

That all together, combined with your age group and religious group will give you excellent odds of finding a woman, who is drawn to your mind, religiosity, and loyalty.

alcockell

MissusP said:

Take it one step at a time...start with seeing a doctor for how to approach your weight loss...which will help the cellulitis and ulcers. Start seeing a counselor who is familiar with Asperger's. My gut feeling is that the phone and online sex stuff is throwing you into a bad place and might be something you avoid until you have a better idea of what sexuality should mean to you. Can you call and schedule those appointments? Have you read Athol's MAp book? The emphasis is on creating and following a plan for self-improvement with small actionable steps.

District nurses are dealing with the ulcers, and I'm under the obesity clinic at my local NHS Trust re the weight... I broke down when last there - and they now know the root cause of the weight is the sexual abuse.  So they're asking nationally about surgery etc... although I said "Or you could just shoot me" when REALLY depressed.

Over how sex drive works with AS - it's as though I just don't run fantasy at all without direct inbound stimuli.. I used that online stuff (which I normally have no interest in) in a manner more akin to Arthur Dent's use of Scrabble letters to derive the Ultimate Question after the Golgafrincham B Ark crashed on Earth (end of Hitch Hikers) - I had heard about this "rough sex" trend.. played out a clip.. and the immediate thought was "Why the hell would I risk a beloved's airway?".  Being I was in St John Ambulance for 5 years between 1993 and 1998 - nearest my hand would go to someone's trachea would be to take a carotid pulse or apply a cervical collar.

I suppose on the sexual front, most people mentally play out previous experiences?  As I'm a blank slate and only know stuff academically, and while my tech skills are innate - anything relational is cognitive...

It's weird... especially when the world out there and the relational mores are THAT counterintuitive...

alcockell

@BrianC, over the career - I'm an IT Capacity Planner with one of the larger financial companies in the UK; been working for them since Oct 1998 - was 2nd line support, an email admin, moved into Capacity Planning when there was a large reorg a few years back.

So got the respect there...

BrianC

@alcockell excellent.  One less step to worry about.

Angeline

Paging @Cinnamon

alcockell

@brianc Oh - and as work are Citrix right across the board - I work from home - so no hassle there.  Also useful as all the pressure is off while the legs slowly heal...

alcockell

Oh - I had been - and eventually should be back - in the audiovisual team at my church... Inconspicuous I know..

BrianC

The funny thing about human beings and social interaction, is that we learn, internalize, and habitualize our social skills so young that we forget that they are skills.  We can learn them the same way we learn other skills like reading, writing, software coding, etc.

We put the social sphere into its own hermetically sealed class of interactions.  Because of this blind spot, very few people become aware that you can learn and unlearn, modify, and automate your social interactions just like everything else.

I call this the "Myth of Charisma", people think that someone is likeable or not, charming or not, socially apt or not.  It isn't true.  The apparently charismatic man just had better training as a child when he learned his social skills.  I wrote a book on this, you are welcome to download a copy if you like.

Things like friendship, humour, charm, romance, and seduction are all skills we can break into steps and practice methodically.  Marriage is ultimately just a skill set.

Once you see it them in this way, all of this seems so much more manageable. It takes a lot of the worry out of the equation.

alcockell

@mandrill Ahhhh!   

I must admit - one thing that drew me to MMSL was the "laid like tile" concept - if I ever DID marry - it's what I'd definitely want.  Christen every room and flat surface in the place, a highly-passionate marriage - unable-to-keep-hands-off-each-other stuff...

Had to just readjust to maintain comfort... apologies..

Unable to keep my hands, mouth etc off her, and the same inbound from her?  Yeah- I can see me doing that.  "consort battleships" to borrow Henry Higgins' phrase who revel in screwing each other's brains out pretty much when/whereever?  Yeah - I could do that...

Thanks for that info... each little step of seeing what resonates...

alcockell

Kinda helps that I'm introing myself to you lot while BBC4 are airing a Bonnie Raitt set....

alcockell

Oh - on the weight front - this was kinda kicked off when I was told to keep things quiet by my tutor-group tutor at school... as it was several years before Childline, and about a decade before the idea that a boy could be a sexual abuse victim of a girl...

But i know what you mean... feelers are being put out among bariatric depts...

alcockell

@BrianC, I plan on getting a Nexus 7 in the post-Christmas sales - so will be yanking loads of ebooks then.

BrianC

@alcockell, I love my Nexus 7.  It is fantastic for reading, and is rapidly becoming my primary business computer.

John3

@alcockell, welcome!  You'll get great advice here, and a load of support as well.  I have a son with Asperger's, and he has one of the best therapists and groups in the state (I'm in the US).  She recommended "Socially Curious and Curiously Social by Michelle Garcia Winner & Pamela Crooke.  This is written for socially awkward teens, not Aspies specifically, but it teaches the perspective and skills that everyone needs.  It's pretty easy to relate to, and it certainly gave me concepts to work with my son on.  There is also "The Asperkids (Secret) Book of Social Rules: The handbook of Not-so-obvious Social Guidelines.  While both are focused on kids, the concepts apply just as well to adults. Could be an interesting read for you while you get your health back.

I'd also suggest getting out and making social contact.  My son plays Magic the Gathering at least once, if not two nights a week (he'd play every night if I'd let him).  Many of the kids (and adults) have some awkwardness in their social interactions...but find the shops that host the games to be very accepting places.  Churches can sometimes be like that...very much depends on the church of course.  Just be sure you get out an interact and practice-- @MasterOfTheUniverse has it right...talk to men and women every chance you get, review how the interactions went, get feedback if you can, make adjustments, and keep at it.

And do consider some counseling for the childhood abuse.  It's horrific when a person experiences such a thing.  It's even more horrific (a second violation) when they have to carry it around throughout their life. A counselor could help you to move forward in that area.

dalef

Penelope Trunk has a blog I would suggest you read (Aspie, sexually abused as a teenager.)