Asperger Newbie with a buttload of other baggage

alcockell

Not a pity party (none of this is), but I forgot a few key points.

I had been dealing with unidentified sleep apnoea from about 2005... this was only diagnosed when I went into hospital with pneumonia and respiratory failure in Jan 2011 - was in for 10 days.

If that pneumonia hadn't happened (collapsed while in my GP's office while she was generating a 2nd week of antibiotics prescription)... I was *that close* to death.

Weight's like turning a bloody carrier or supertanker - I was piling it on before-  was gaining but at a far slower rate on the last obesity clinic appt... in red Dwarf deceleration from FTL territory (remember that Holly had to decelerate from 6c back to sublight).

I do sometimes look back at how thin I was before all the abuse started... and how I sailed, went on canal holidays etc... but as you said.. baby steps.  I haven't snacked between meals for a good while now... the CPAP helped there...

I have to ask though - I have this feeling that if at the end of the day I DID end up making love with a loving partner, giving my virginity to her... I'd cry.  Probably be relief, joy, and sheer thankfulness that I made it through.  As well as the sheer intensity of all the emotion that's welled for years... But would this be seen as masculine or weak nowadays?

John3

@alcockell, any woman you would get that intimate with will understand the journey you've been on, and will probably be right there with you.  I wouldn't worry about it being masculine or not.  You'll have the connection, that is what matters at that point.

Now if you continue doing that every time for the next three years, you might have a problem

alcockell

Doubtful that I would.  I'd be on the learning curve then...

The curiosity about going fo it up against kitchen worktops, in the shower... etc etc.  Oh, and that wife-as-dessert suggestion I made over in the High-energy sex thread...

Hmmm - maybe even use each other as trenchers....

alcockell

OK.  Apologies.

Came from reading Dad's copy of Vin Rude etc when I was aged 9 tbh.

I suppose anything like this is doctorate-level stuff... while i haven't even got my sexual "provisional licence"?

Seriously - what mental bounds ought I put around anything related to relationships?  Or is that all re dealing with the weight so I decouple food from everything?

TBH, I'm pretty lost in all of this - completely outside my comfort zone...

How do I take the first step?

Serenity

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

I think you'll find the Mindful Attraction Plan to be helpful as it is a very straight-forward linear plan to improve yourself and make yourself more attractive. Just click on the link at the bottom of the page.

You may also want to consider the private coaching with @BrianC. He has worked with clients who are struggling to get past obstacles such as weight and sexual abuse.

The manosphere writings don't represent all women and it's easy to get a skewed idea of what sexual relationships are like from some of the websites. MMSL has a much more balanced approach that I think will make more sense to you.

dalef

I was in grad school, and told the woman I was dating I had never kissed a woman before. During the kiss I started giggling since I didn't know when or how to end it. She told me either of us could just stop (oh, and she wasn't ready to stop yet.)

alcockell

I suppose what can be REALLY confusing is that what in a sane culture are DHVs like the loyal nature are culturally declared to be DLVs if the culture around is dog-eat-dog, selfcentered and narcissistic. 

Thinking about other confusing aspects... I have to think in order to feel.  Had to be taught how to run, jump, kick a ball, even use a trampoline etc as a kid.  Could this also explain the "doesn't compute" reaction when I read about sex-as-currency or when it's weaponised.  Also when most of the media representations are of either psychodramatic or parasitic relating eg the attraction of the "bad boy" etc.  Thanks @BrianC for explaining about the incomplete model thing; especially when most of the rest of the red-pill sector would have me in the worst double-bind - going against my very nature and conscience in order to attract ANYONE.

I'm an engineer, an Aspie one at that.  Pisses me off no end when I see the people in power ripping apart massive areas of infrastructure etc for their own ends. Same when I've been part of an ice-cream-and-wine supply crew when a female friend's been dumped AGAIN or the parasitic ideal of the Bad Boy is held up by Roissy et al... "Get a massive harem" "Pump and dump!".  Screw that.

 I suppose I view the marital sexual relationship as a controlled nuclear reaction powering the rest of the relationship (think nuclear power plant), I view sex as a building material - one to help improve, build up the other partner, and together build a solid relationship that can bless and support others around.  I suppose it links into the desire that if God were to entrust me with a loving wife, to build her up and "present her without blemish".

Basically, I can't do game-playing, and consequently HATE it in others and if I'm being asked to.

Just another stream of consciousness...

dalef

For single men, the "game" site I recommend is girlschase.com; much more oriented to learnign how to be awesome than to tricks and LTR friendly (though not a marriage advocate, but what he teaches is compatable with marriage).

alcockell

Thinking back - when I was thinner - I do recall the odd inbound direct offer.. which I kicked into touch.  Probably down to the unknown terror, other IOIs were observed by others but I didn't see them.

re church - I suppose a bit of thought adjustment will be needed - then again, I remember always processing any women as "married" in order to make them safe in my mind... or as blood-relatives in church.  So that fired the whole "don't go there" process in my mind as it would have been "incest" in my brain.

S'pose everything is routed through my conscious brain first before being handed off to my "lizard" brain.. so the whole cognitive-dissonance-hamster thing is hard to compute. 

Am I on the right lines in conceptualising sex as building materials as opposed to the "sex as currency" meme one sees bandied around?

alcockell

@milf_in_training

"While many men, including those who are bitter to all women, think this is an ideal way to live, those people are not in the majority. Most men use Game for a few years when they are young, then switch gears to find a woman to spend the rest of their lives with."

Ahh - this would open up the accusation of hypocrisy that some women fire at men publicly? "You look to fuck the hot girls then find a virgin" etc...?  Then leads to the "Man up -our past shouldn't matter".  All the while the Party Set are doing the same and rationalising it by saying that both sides are as hypocritical as each other?

While guys like me wait?

alcockell

OK - will do.  It was just that along with the regain of energy that came with being diagnosed with sleep apnoea and then put on CPAP - more in me came alight... and working through some of the abuse history... was then trying to regain bearings in a culture that had changed a LOT from the 80s... as I had shut down back at 13.

I suppose I was mostly aware of the sociosexual area as that was the root cause of all the damage and weight gain.  But going from a monogamy culture (think Huey Lewis/Chicago etc lyrics) to the hostile exploitative culture voiced in, say Beyonce, gangsta rap, Grrl Power etc lyrics...

Was a tad Rip Van Winkle-ish..

alcockell

Had a look at a screenshot from the MAP sheet... and wishlisted the books.

Wrote the following on Facebook last night...

Being sexually abused by girls at 13 - when my libido didn't boot till 18 - was like being 8. Presexual. I want to come out from behind the fat - but am frightened to. I had sexual agency stolen from me before I knew what it was, but I want it back. Will I ever shake off the emasculation? I know I'm competent in work.. but across the gender divide? I process women as either default "married" for them to be flagged as safe in my mind or "blood relative" if a fellow Christian. I'd like to be able to progress from this to actually be able to think sexually and not feel as though I'm faking it. The ability to be in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship or progress towards marriage was stolen from me.. I'd like it back. I'd like at least the opportunity to experience that area before I die...

had some supportive responses from some of my cohort through secondary school...

It's the masculinity thing - as my sexual sense was completely derailed before it even started... or is MMSL even too far advanced for me?  Whenever any interest was shown in me post-abuse, I'd panic and eat.  But with me turning 43 at the end of the year, but not having even had the opportunity of experiencing the relative innocence of the holding hands/first kiss stage I have kissed and cuddled on occasion - but that was between 17 and 15 years ago... I can't mentally connect to the "hot monkey sex" phase.  As for "holding a dominant frame"...

Factor in Asperger Syndrome - my tech skills are innately processed - anything relational has been cognitively handled... has meant i'm able to communicate with women in a professional or familial manner... but unable to sexually.  Even as far back as THINKING sexually.  At times I feel like a teenager in an adult's body.

As a generic idea, the "screwing one's brains out" concept sounds like a great one... but what if I never get to that milestone before retirement?  As when I look on sites like The Marriage Bed, it's referred to as "doctorate-level".  but when I read surveys of where women are sexually in the mainstream press, it's almost as if women today almost hold out a demand for throw-her-around-the-bed sex as one of the qualifying rounds before the final selection of someone... it's rather like the simulator round on the finals of The Krypton Factor when they had to do an instrument landing in a Sikorsky Sea King onto a carrier.

And to overlay the horrible memories of being brought off maliciously with more pleasant ones - within the church, this woudl require me to be married.  One HELL of a standing start.

Any thoughts would be welcome.  Especially as when I eventually DO start MAPping, I can see the sexuality area being red....red...red...red...red...red...., masculine frame as red...red...red...red..red...

alcockell

Oh - my nan did the whole "little man" thing when travelling with her when I was 5-9, got me to pay for tea going through London en route to my grandparents in Seaford... unpacked and resolved that one.

Dad had a heart attack and recovered when I was 11, but due to me only being diagnosed as AS in 1987 (age 16), I think there was some grudging support here.  Grandparents' culture would have been far out of date.

So I had all the abuse, plus 4 years of unknown at the time AS, other bullying.. meant that effectively I lost my timing and footing through those formative years while the rest of you got onto the training slopes.

Factor in that most of the "red pill" or even MMSL is in some way remedial.. I'm worried that even when I got out there, I'd be moving at too *slow* a pace or be too far back to have a hope..

if I managed, say, to get the weight down and fitness resolved around age 50, would there be women out there willing to take on a raw beginner?  Or would the expectations be too great?  I'd hate to be emasculated even more. Or would there be a bit of time compression as that development wasn't taking place at the same time as everything else?  What might a putative sex life even look like?  Would there be the "laying like tile" going on, or would i be further back than that?

alcockell

@mandrill @milf_in_training @brianc

BrianC

It takes a lot of courage to share the thoughts with strangers.  Thank you @alcockell.

When I was molested at 12-13, I experienced a sexual reset.  I reverted for several years to an essentially pre-sexual state. I had a girlfriend at that age, and basically just checked out of that relationship until she left me for another friend.

The idea of enjoying sex to several years to start computing again.  It took the honest, flattering interest of several people, both boys and girls to "reactivate" me.  Being touched and kissed by people who I felt were "safe" was like thawing out after a freeze.

And I will admit that it didn't do the job entirely.  I was still too shy and too afraid to actually go for what I needed until I did some serious work on myself.  In fact I underwent a Westernized version of a Tibetan Buddhist ritual called the chöd that symbolizes death and rebirth of the soul to help me.  It was only after that experience that I found my feet again.

In your case, perhaps some time spending assessing your fears with a qualified counsellor, and a baptism when you are ready will help you.

And like you, after being molested, I lost touch with my body.  I ate bad food, I neglected exercise, I became obese, and fell in love with the cerebral.  I also experienced psychosomatic numbness in my body, too.  I am still fighting to get back to a healthy body size.

BrianC

It helps to get re-attuned to your body.

Honestly, sexual desire, and for that matter, feeling masculine and empowered are not cerebral experiences.  They are physical, and rise from being aware of your own healthy body.

I am going to share a video of mine with you here to save a little time.  I will shoot a follow-up this week with some exercises for you.  I communicate better verbally than in text.

BrianC

I have done three other videos that you may or may not find salient:

Response to the Woolly Bumblebee's "Question About Male Sexual Assault and Rape"
Response to Murray Pearson:  How we can Help Male Rape Survivors Process their Experience
How I would Develop a Men's Rape and Abuse Recovery Program

alcockell

@BrianC - tell you what might help - maybe get hold of an E6 or similar mic as you're across the room from your mic...

Take it from one who did sound and video at his local church

BrianC

It's funny isn't it?  I have a great camera but the sound is terrible.  I tried recording sound separately a few times, but then the two kept getting out of synch on the final video for some reason.

alcockell

No need.  Just try an external mic, possibly through a DI box if needed... and get the capsule nearer your mouth.  The echo on the playback is slapback hitting the capsule slightly out of phase...