New to this - Triage

texascfguytexascfguy TexasSilver Member Posts: 390

So I recently found this subreddit The Red Pill and was then directed here. We are in our late 20's early 30's been married for over 3 years now. We've known each other since before high school but began dating during college. She comes from a strict Conservative Catholic family and was very very reserved about sex when we got together. We have no children yet but both have agreed we would like to. Currently we disagree about when, I'm ready to have kids now but she wants to wait another year because of her career.

Rule Out Medical

I have no real medical issues to speak of. As a kid I was diagnosed with ADD and took medication for that until I was about 20 years old at which point I stopped taking it. My wife is not currently taking any kind of medication that I know of. She has never taken birth control of any kind because of her religious beliefs. As far as I know she has never had an issue with orgasms. There was a point when we first started having sex that she was faking them and I got her to be honest with me about it. Since then she is always honest about when she does and doesn’t orgasm. She almost always has an orgasm as long as I take my time. A about a year or so ago she started complaining that sex was painful and started having irregular periods. She saw a doctor and was told that there was nothing physically wrong with her and to try different positions to try to alleviate the pain. Since then we’ve noticed that using lube and going slow at first seem to be helping.

Question Two – Rule Out Structural Attraction Issues

Physically speaking I’m no Brad Pitt. I’m Italian by heritage which means I’m pretty hairy. The wife has never said that she found that unattractive about me but I’m not dumb I know that hairiness is a turnoff for most women. Also I’ve struggled with my weight almost my whole life. Loosing and gaining weight. At my heaviest I was about 260 lbs. Currently though I’m at about 225 lbs at 6’ feet tall due to eating properly and stating CrossFit just over a year ago. I’ve added a good amount of muscle and dropped about 10% body fat. I’m probably in the best shape of my life right now. I could still stand to loose a few pounds (10-15 I would say) I don’t have a six pack of anything. My wife however has always been gorgeous for as long as I’ve known her. She even lost weight after high school, who does that? She’s about 5’7 125. We both go to CrossFit together and enjoy it which is great but it hasn’t really increased our sex life yet. Other than the physical stuff we both have decent jobs, no children yet. We have some debt student loans and house but no credit card or car debt. We don’t have a lot in savings like most people we tend to spend and not save.

Question Three – Rule Out Critical Moments and Neglect

As far as I know there are no real screw ups on my part in our relationship. We’ve had some pretty heated fights. She’s Mexican and has a pretty hot temper sometimes but I’ve never put my hands on her. No cheating as far as I know on either part and no public humiliation that I would say. Also probably the longest we’ve gone without speaking after a fight is a couple of days at most. I don’t play video games anymore, don’t spend long hours at work either and neither of us travel for work.

Question Four – Rule Out Outside Sexual Sources

As far as I know she is not stepping outside of our marriage. She’s given no indication of that ever so I have no reason to think that. Having said that I’m not with her 24/7 and I haven’t gone through her texts and emails so I obviously can’t know 100% but I’m 99.9% sure she’s not cheating on me. Also she’s pretty against porn again the whole Catholic thing so I doubt that’s the case either.

 
Question Five – When Did the Sex Go Bad?

I’m gonna skip this question and lump it in with #6. Since we've only been married three years and they pretty much go together.


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Comments

  • texascfguytexascfguy TexasSilver Member Posts: 390
    Question Six – What Was the Sex Like at the Start of the Relationship?

    When we first got together there was a pretty strong attraction I would say on both sides. We did a lot of making out and heavy petting that lead to sex on a few occasions. This is a tough one because of our religious beliefs we tried our best not to have sex before marriage. Obviously we did end up having sex during our dating phase but it only happened a few times and was usually followed by a promise not to do it again. After we got married things didn’t change much even though we were married she wasn’t jumping on me and tearing my clothes off like I was hoping she would now that the whole chastity thing had been removed. Also we don’t use birth control because of the whole catholic deal, sex is off limits about 2 weeks of every month during which period we pretty much don’t touch each other for sexual reasons. She’s not big on giving BJ’s no surprise there. She’s not completely opposed to it and does it on occasion but it’s not her favorite thing to do and I usually have to beg. She’s not a total prude in bed I usually do most of the leading and she doesn’t mind trying different positions but other than that she’s not very adventurous and obviously anal is out of the question. Other than that we might have sex once or twice a month on average and have gone bouts of up to 3 months with no sex at all.

    Question Seven – What’s the Elephant in the Room?

    The obvious Elephant that most men deal with is also my biggest issue, porn. I’ve been using porn since before I was even mature enough to understand it and how to use it. As a teenager and even into my early twenties I used it obsessively sometimes 3 or 4 times a day. Currently I average maybe 3 or 4 times a week. I’ve tried stopping on my own before but have always gone back to it. I would definitely say there is an issue with that and I know it affects my drive to have sex with my wife when it’s so much easier to just use porn. The other thing I should mention is that I’m a recovering Alcoholic. I go to meetings and have been sober just over 11 years. I was sober for a couple of years before we got together so my drinking never occurred during or time together. Not sure how that affects our sexually relationship but figured I should mention it anyway.

    Question Eight – Who is the Leader in your Marriage?

    Not sure how to answer this one. I guess when it comes to having sex I’m definitely the leader. But in all other areas I’d have to say it’s pretty back and forth. We generally fight for control of decisions or we go back and forth depending on the situation.

    Question Nine – Tell Us About the Good Times

    This is a hard question for me to answer because we’ve only been married three years. There has never really been a time when we were all over each other having sex all the time. Other than that we really get along pretty well most of the time. We have our arguments and fights but no more than most couples I think. I guess right now things are pretty good outside of our sex issues. 

  • texascfguytexascfguy TexasSilver Member Posts: 390
    Let me know if I missed anything and I will try to update as soon as I can. Thanks 
  • DaddyOhDaddyOh CTGold Men Posts: 1,589
    From your posts it appears your are great friends with your spouse. That can be a double edge sword sometimes.
    Given your strict religious beliefs, it's difficult to give you advice. But from you weight loss and sobriety it appears you are heading in the right direction.
    Wish I could help you but strict religion, in your household, might impede your progress.
    Good luck
    You came to the right place
    "How vain it is to sit down and write when you have not stood up to live."
  • texascfguytexascfguy TexasSilver Member Posts: 390
    How and in what ways could my religion impede my progress? Not trying to be argumentative just wondering what you mean by that.
  • DaddyOhDaddyOh CTGold Men Posts: 1,589
    I was referring to her attitude towards contraceptive. Your average is once a month and appears its not enough.
    I grew up a strict "Eastern Euro" Catholic. I do understand where you are coming from.
    "How vain it is to sit down and write when you have not stood up to live."
  • texascfguytexascfguy TexasSilver Member Posts: 390
    I get that but I also think that the other two weeks of that month could be a lot more fruitful if you know what I mean. I don't really think I feel the need to have sex everyday but more than once a month would be nice. Also we've talking about starting a family so the no sex during the fertile period is out the window at this point.
  • growingafamilygrowingafamily chicagoSilver Member Posts: 1,841
    I'm just gonna say 'hi' as a fellow NFP user. And absolutely you can be more "fruitful" during  the safe times. We are both high drive and average, um.. hang on I need to calculate this up a bit.. 12-15x/month? But I returned to fertility after my recent pregnancy with a really short LP so our phase III has been abnormally short, something I might be able to fix medically. But yeah starting a family will help. I don't want to get your hopes up since everyone is different but I was insatiable for the first half of this pregnancy. My poor husband had trouble keeping up! Second half of the pregnancy I slowed down a bit and gave him opportunity to pursue me for a change, lol.
    texascfguy
  • bartmaxumbartmaxum Member Posts: 106
    Stop the porn use now. Got to yourbrainonporn.com.

    Read it and see how much applies to you. You are young and you have time to not let this get any worse than it is already.

    43 days ago i read that website based on advice i got here and  have not looked at porn or masturbated since. It has made a huge physical difference for me..little more frustrated with the wife as my only sexual release but i feel so much better it is worth it. .
  • TheEdgeTheEdge FloridaMember Posts: 166
    edited December 2013

    @texascfguy, Howdy!  Yeah, I can really relate to your post and the challenge of NFP.  We practiced NFP for about 13 years or so.  Well, I say "practiced," but we were never able to achieve the ideal, namely, NO sexual contact during fertile times.  We usually had hot super-hot no-PIV sessions during those times.  It was and still is the only time of the month that my wife is what I would super sexual.  When we were young, she would sometimes orgasm during her non-fertile times, but as we got older she wouldn't; her cycle then went crazy wherein she was "fertile" for about 13 days, which left us about 8 days or so for intercourse (subtracting her period), and on most of those days she just wasn't too interested.  Your story shows one of the common problems with NFP -- the abstaining from intercourse for noble reasons often leads to greater sins.  In both our cases (yours and mine, that is), these were porn, masturbation, and maybe other things neither of us would want to mention.  It got to where, from my perspective, adultery and / or divorce was where this was heading, as I was becoming very frustrated.  After her best friend had a fifth pregnancy at age 40, my wife walked in one day and (I'll never forget it), said, "Let's talk about life."  Since then, we've halfheartedly agreed to use condoms during the fertile times.  We have been generous bringing life into the world (four kids) and, personally, I don't feel guilty about it.

    My main argument against strict NFP is its assumption that, "by its very nature, contraceptive sex is divisive for a couple" (paraphrasing Humanae Vitae ).  But, in my experience, nothing is more divisive than sexual problems in marriage, AND "by nature" (ie scientifically speaking), sex is extremely unitive as you have a release of bonding neurochemicals (esp. oxytocin), even with a condom on!  I suppose the main reason Catholics use NFP is, well, because we're "supposed to" and we feel guilty / look bad if we do.  I'm sure if I asked my wife, she'd say she does feel some guilt about the whole thing.  Still, in the "top 5 reasons" Catholics oppose contraception, #1,2,3 and maybe 4 would be that chemical contraceptives and IUDs at least sometimes work as abortifacients.  That's what causes the Bishops to vehemently oppose contraceptives in insurance policies.  It's certainly not because they want to increase the population of the world or feel passionate about the divisive effects of condoms or withdrawal or vasectomy.  So, in the "hierarchy of evil," in my judgment / conscience, condoms during fertile times are pretty far down there. 

    I'm certainly not trying to discourage you from NFP.  It was actually pretty helpful for us, even though admittedly we never were really strict about it.  growinafamily's 12-15 times a month is certainly NOT in the norm, though more power to her.  My wife's main thinking on it has always been the pro-life embryo thing, and I definitely respect that. 

    But, wow, with the porn and all and the low frequency, I'd see how you are in a bit of a quandry.  I didn't catch whether you're actually trying to get pregnant right now, which of course changes the whole ball game.  Three years into marriage with no kids, and most Catholics strict enough to use NFP should, well, not be using NFP at this point, if you know what I mean. The purpose is to delay pregnancy, not avoid it altogether (again, that would generally be considered yet another sin of selfishness!!).    

     

    For love and faith and sex and fear, and all the things that keep us here, in the mysterious distance between a man and a woman.  U2 

    Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.  Mike Tyson

    texascfguyPersephoneBearinthetrees
  • TheEdgeTheEdge FloridaMember Posts: 166
    edited December 2013

    I forgot...concerning the porn.  The only thing that ever helped me was sabotaging myself and making it real hard to enjoy porn the way I liked (I enjoyed youporn with my ipad on my bed).  There are actually several really good products that can make it nearly impossible to enjoy good porn via the internet over your wifi (hey, that's a start). You can also surely block it from your phone, and you likely don't use it at work.  The only trick is making sure the password is not accessible to you (if you don't want to have your wife suspicious that you're giving her a secret password, make a crazy one you could never possibly remember (X275CC3u545), type it out, and tape it under a desk somewhere that's nowhere near your house, or give it to your parish priest!).  Using sure willpower against porn when you're sexually frustrated borders on the improbable.  I'm sure you'd agree that quitting drinking is actually easier in many ways.

    By the way, does your wife know about the porn and masturbation?  Mine has never asked me, but I'm sure she wouldn't be shocked.  Don't ask, don't tell.      

    For love and faith and sex and fear, and all the things that keep us here, in the mysterious distance between a man and a woman.  U2 

    Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.  Mike Tyson

  • texascfguytexascfguy TexasSilver Member Posts: 390
    @theedge Thanks for your reply it's good to know that I'm not alone on the NFP front. My wife was born and raised in a strict Mexican Catholic household. I on the other hand wasn't. I went to church some as a kid but stopped as I got older. So for me I'm not so against using the contraceptives as my wife is, but I respect her wishes especially when it comes to the chemical contraceptives in birth control pills. If she doesn't want to put that stuff in her body I'm not gonna force it. On NFP, we definitely loosely practice it. My wife doesn't really track her temperature all the time, we basically just count the days after her period ends and then I have about a two week window to get in there or it doesn't happen because she just doesn't ever seem to be horny. It's generally up to me and if I've been satisfying myself if you know what I mean then it just doesn't happen. We've been talking about starting a family recently and after being married for three years I feel it's time to start but she just started a job at a new school and she's afraid that if she gets pregnant the first year then they won't renew her contract. I've been working on her though and I think she's coming around to the idea. 

    As far as the porn usage goes it can be pretty hard to stop especially if my wife isn't satisfying me. I notice though that when we do have sex that I don't think about it as much. I have stopped for periods of time in the past but always go back to it. Which does remind me of my drinking so I know that I have a problem with it. When I quit drinking I had a large support group that assisted me and was open about it but with porn it isn't really something you ask for help with. Having said that I've stopped since finding this forum about a week now and put a block on my router to prevent me from going to most sites but it's easily defeatable if I decided I wanted to go back. The good news is though is that I have a close friend in AA that is also a recovering sex and love addict and has struggled with porn addiction so I know that I can go to him about this issue. It's going to be difficult because it's a habit I've formed for over 15 years of my life but I know it can be done. Any and all prayers sent my way would be appreciated.  
  • texascfguytexascfguy TexasSilver Member Posts: 390
    Forgot to add that my wife is definitely using a don't ask don't tell policy when it comes to porn. She knows I do it, although probably has no idea how often. But she doesn't really bring it up or ask me about it.
  • mixnmatchmixnmatch CaliforniaSilver Member Posts: 497
    I'm not going to pass judgement on your religion but if you are not touching each other sexually for the two week period God intended for you to touch each other you are working directly against your biology.  The MMSL is based on biology.

    Secondly, I think there were attraction issues before and now.  We all know strict Catholics with the right guy decided to become sex gods but with their fiance or husband pull out the Catholic card because the attraction isn't there.  This may or may not your case but it is likely.  Work on the attraction and sex her up during the part of the month you can't have sex.  Use toys, fingers, movies, oral whatever it takes to bring that sex God out of her.  My wife is BORING in bed during the safe period but wants her ticket punched to pound town leading up to and after ovulation.

    I have a theory that women (not all) who wait for marriage do so because they are typically LD. The HD or normal drive woman cannot resist her natural desire and caves to temptation.  I know there are exceptions where the woman does wait and leaves her husband because she loves sex to much once she has it.  But for the couples that I know the ones who waited until marriage and are still married are extremely LD.  

    Also, as @BrianC pointed out you need to stop the negative self talk.  I'm hairy and I've never had a problem with women at all.  Like he said "it's a matter of taste."     You sound like a pretty solid guy, keep MAPing, get rid of the negative self talk, porn, and begging.  Bring out that lioness in your wife!
    texascfguyBearinthetreesDaddyOh[Deleted User]
  • growingafamilygrowingafamily chicagoSilver Member Posts: 1,841
    We waited for marriage, we're both HD. Waiting was 100% religious and not at all because we had no desire to.  The analogy I use is that it was like a flood gate opened.. After the wedding, we took off running and never looked back (save for NFP abstaining, which again, is not because of lack of desire). Married 10.5 years.

    And (to the OP and theEdge) don't ask don't tell doesn't mean you're off the hook with your wives! Of course I can't speak for everyone but I have a good friend who has basically given up on talking to her husband about it because she knows it's going no where. She's really bothered by it, she just doesn't know what to do about it.
  • texascfguytexascfguy TexasSilver Member Posts: 390
    I'd have to say my wife is on the low sex drive spectrum. However she isn't against having sex and seems to enjoy it when we do. She is just not the type to make the first move I guess. Part of NFP is abstaining during the fertile period but we do from time to time do other things to get off together. I don't want to give the wrong idea my wife isn't totally against sex and rarely turns me down if I initiate but we do go through pretty long periods without doing anything (sometimes 2 or 3 months). Just from reading this forum I can already gather that most of the reason for that is me resulting in a lack of desire due to porn usage. Like I said she knows about that I use porn just not how often and just doesn't really bring it and I obviously don't either. In past when we have talked about it she's been reasonably upset by it. 

    @growingafamily are you suggesting that I talk to my wife about my porn habit? If so what good could that do?
  • growingafamilygrowingafamily chicagoSilver Member Posts: 1,841
    I'm not suggesting talking to her, I'm saying just because she doesn't say anything doesn't mean she isn't bothered. if you are planning to drop it anyway, there's no need to bring it up now, just work to eliminate and hopefully she'll catch on :) 
  • texascfguytexascfguy TexasSilver Member Posts: 390
    Cool, thanks for clearing that up. Now if you could just tell me how I make my wife want to have sex all the time I'll be on my way.  ;)
  • TigerTiger SeattleCategory Moderator* Posts: 2,324
    @texascfguy,

    I'm detecting nice guy elements here in your deferring to what you think her sexual desires are rather than stating your wants and needs and giving her the opportunity to satisfy you.  I get it, I did that for years and it made me seriously unhappy.  I think you need to do some long hard thinking about what you want from your marriage, the reality is that you are a recently married couple with no kids, if you are not happy with your sex life now, it is likely only to get worse unless you take clear steps take make things better.  

    All of that starts with you figuring out what you want, and putting a plan in place to move your marriage in that direction.  One of the things you need to really internalize is that your sexual wants and desires are just as valid as hers, if you want to bang her every day, there is absolutely nothing wrong with making it clear that that is what you want.  She doesn't have to do that but it is perfectly reasonable for you to want it, and to make it clear to her that you want it.  Your fear of what will happen if you are truthful with her about what you want is what is leading you to porn as a coping mechanism.  You may find that you wife is actually quite happy to bang you 3 times a week, but you'll never know unless you make your desires known.

    Along those same lines the fact that you are not personally bound by Catholic doctrine and would prefer to use a contraceptive and have sex during her fertile period is just as valid as her desire to abstain due to her religious views.  Where you end up is likely somewhere in the middle of those two positions, it is not you simply giving up what you want.

    Stating your desires and holding firm on their validity to move your behavior as a couple toward what you want is going to be destabilizing, and it is much more likely to be successful if she is of a mindset that you are awesome and she should do whatever it takes to keep you around because you are a catch and she's lucky to have you.  That means you need to run your MAP, become the best most awesome version of yourself that you can be, you want her wildly attracted to you when start to push for what you want from her, it will be destabilizing and could well result in you two parting ways though I think that is unlikely.  Don't have kids until you get this resolved, children will add all kinds of complexity here.

    MplsRSBearinthetrees
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