Spanking (Another one of THOSE threads)

PhoenixDown

From the "is this a shit test and how to handle it" thread:

MAPster said:

@RedPillWifey: how so? Does he bend you over his lap and let you have it? Give me some pointers olease

I asked him to, and we've really only had the opportunity to do it once. He put me over his knee, and he went pretty slow at first, massaging then slapping. After a while, I told him he could hit harder if he wanted to, and I think he went all out, and it was fantastic. 

Pointers:

-Cup your hand slightly and practice on yourself beforehand, to get the right sound. Louder, snappier sound is better. 

-After you smack, massage the area tenderly for a second. It feels wonderful.

-Sexy lingerie would be a good idea for her, made it more "naughty" I guess.

-Stop for a few seconds every now and then to force her legs apart to play with her, ahem, lady bits. (I'm describing this, why do I feel the need to say lady bits? Wtf)

-Alternate sides, don't hit the same spot twice in a row. Let a spot rest a bit before you go after it again.

-Have a safe word. 

-After you're done, have her lay on her stomach, and massage coco butter or aloe vera lotion on her backside, carefully, and let her have a rest before you do anything else. Sooooo great.

What did I get out of it?

-I'd been having a pretty rough week, and letting him just take over and "punish" me was a huge release. I'm sure using his manly strength to subdue and punish me was a pretty big rush for him too

-I think I kind of get off a little on the shaming aspect... 

-I kinda felt like I deserved it for something I'd done earlier, so it kind of made me feel better about the earlier transgression (I don't even remember what it was now)

-The adrenaline once we got going... Rawr. I've gotten a similar rush from the pain of getting a tattoo. It's just delicious.

-The feeling of submission vs dominance, don't really need to explain that one.

Thanks, now I'm all hot and bothered, and we won't really have an opportunity to do it again anytime soon. 

(

Linanati

Spanking's cool when it's consensual.  I haven't gotten one in a while, so maybe I need to figure out how to hint that I want one without feeling like I'm hinting.  (For the control aspect, it's better if it feels like it was his idea.)

mook_z

TK421

Sigh....when my wife is having a rough week she just likes to be left alone to take it easy (like this week). Unless I can get some alcohol flowing, sometimes that loosens her up. It's been almost 10 days since we've done it (granted, there was a death in the family and a trip out of town for a funeral, plus a visit from Aunt Irma, plus a very hectic week work wise) so I'm not taking it personally, but that's our longest dry spell since I started the MAP and someone might need to be "punbished" with a few spanks!!

horseman

Im not sire which one I hate more
That these relationships exist
Knowing that these relationships exist
or that @mook_z is married to @redpillwifey.

Good on you guys...I can live vicariously through you.

Now as Jayne says Ill be in my bunk. ;-)

mook_z

This is kind of a new thing for us, dude. We went through 7 years of misery to get here. I like to tell people "It took about 8 years for us to hit our stride." Which is a polite way of saying that the Captain is helming the ship and the Captain's Quarters are definitely rocking.  

Which is as stark a contrast as possible from 2 years ago.  It's still not perfect. You're getting highlights. Almost anyone looks good on a highlight reel.  We're still breaking 7 years of habits.  However, I can spank a woman until she squeals, so that's a plus.

On topic: Uh, yeah, total dominance trip.  Plus, @RedPillWifey's ass is amazing.  OTOH, I don't like being spanked. I like other things.  So, it didn't even occur to me that she would.  FO's, you must tell your Captain these things. 

PS: RPW, I can still crank that up a few notches next time.

MrD

Thing is, Jacquie does not shit test me much of late...so now I administer 'good girl' spankings. She loves it, plus it helps her emotionally.

 

mook_z said:

This is kind of a new thing for us, dude. We went through 7 years of misery to get here. I like to tell people "It took about 8 years for us to hit our stride." Which is a polite way of saying that the Captain is helming the ship and the Captain's Quarters are definitely rocking.  

Which is as stark a contrast as possible from 2 years ago.  It's still not perfect. You're getting highlights. Almost anyone looks good on a highlight reel.  We're still breaking 7 years of habits.  However, I can spank a woman until she squeals, so that's a plus.

 

 

I agree with you. We are undoing 25 years of my betaness. One of the hardest things for me in the beginning of our Red Pill journey was to put hand to ass with Jacquie. She desperately needed it pleaded for it but I was so reluctant. She cried out for me to lead with strength and decisiveness.

I was so scared of being wrong and what would others think if it ever slipped out. A decent man does not strike his wife, I was brought up to believe. Maybe that's why I don't get anything out of it other than the sense of satisfaction knowing that it helps Jacquie. And strengthens our bond of trust. Afterward, when I hold her in my lap, and she's purring contentedly, I know that this is right.

Athena

Spanking is the one thing we do that's all about him being dominant and me submissive. We're pretty new to it, though. It's a huge stress reliever for me, and the sex after is crazy good.

Angeline

Coupla tips (OK more than a couple):

• If this is a new thing, practice on something, say, your thigh. It's still going to be very different on your muscular thigh and a ... shall we say, cushy behind.
• If you have large hands or long fingers, watch out for "wrapping", where the tips of the fingers end up snapping around the edges of what you're aiming at, and end up cracking like a whip, in an unexpected area. I got some fingertips to the lady bits, and it was beyond painful.
• Some people are into the control and dominance part, some into the pain, some into both. One doesn't guarantee the other.
• Ramp up, don't haul off and get so excited you go full force on the first swat. 
• If you've been drinking, or otherwise chemically enhanced, either don't try it, or be super aware of the fact that you can more easily overdo it, misread cues, and be clumsy. If it's something you're really into, you don't want to f' it up the first time you try it by being tipsy. 

I have some reservations about the spanking as a dominance/sexy thing, vs. a punishment thing, and Taken In Hand is where my reservations developed. There are some excellent discussions on the site about whether or not you want to create the parent/child dynamic in your marriage. It seems directly counter to some of the elements of C/FO, where both are assumed and expected to be competent adults, with expectations of a certain level of behavior from both. It could become a way to have your temper tantrum and your sexy spanking too.

There's a scene at the end of "Secretary" where the female lead is walking around the house, touching up here and there in an obviously spotless house. She smooths out the perfectly made bed, she brushes away invisible specks of dust. She gets the mail, opens an envelope, and takes out the item she's ordered - a dead cockroach, and drops it conspicuously in the middle of the pristine bed. She's playfully engaging in an intentional "naughty" behavior, and inviting a spanking. This is far different than indulging in a temper tantrum and thinking it can all be fixed with a spanking later. No offense to Catholics, I spent some time in Catholic school, but it's the same problem I have with blithely committing a sin with the intent of confessing it away later.

With a wife who is unaware of the MAP or the concepts of leading her to grownup, non-shit-testing behavior, you need to think a bit about whether this model might be counterproductive, or how to deal with it if you have some fun with it and it starts to slip into this intentional misbehavior and drama creation. God knows some of you guys don't need another area to be shit-tested or create more drama.

And to repeat what I said on the Kink, BDSM, etc. thread, if she safewords 3 seconds into it, THIS IS NOT A SHIT-TEST. This is a FITNESS test. Is he safe? Can I trust him to stop if I'm frightened, if it's overwhelming, if it hurts too much? You stop, you aftercare, you DO NOT get pissy. This is a safety-test.

Athol_Kay

I wouldn't tie spankings to "bad girl" behavior if she likes being spanked. Good girl ones are better and you can bend them to a more erotic tone.

Many little slaps = better than few very hard ones.

Angeline

My guy and I ran into a snag with the punishment vs. sexy domination thing, and we've been talking about it, and I've put off sending @Notelrac a message asking his take on it.

As I have overshared before ">, my guy and I are into the dom/sub thing. This includes spankings, both with a couple of different whips we have, and reg'lar ole hand spankings. One night as we left our local pub, I got a wild hair and decided I wanted an ice cream. It was 2am, I was driving because he'd had a few, and so I just started driving to the ice cream place. He got very upset with me, because we were risking getting stopped (I was certainly legal, but tired and loopy) or getting into an accident with the *other* drunks most certainly out on the road at 2am on Saturday. Chastened, I turned around and we went home. But I felt awful, and simply could not apologize it away. We were still exploring the whole spanking/whip thing, and I brought him the whip. We broke ALL our rules that night - that we not be drinking, that he not do it when he was legitimately angry, that it be a "punishment" thing. He gave me several thorough swats, there were some tears, and the whole thing was wiped clean. He brought it up months later as, to him, moving and solid evidence I had totally bought into the dom/sub roles, and I could not even remember (nor could he) what the thing was I'd done to feel the need for absolution. But we've intentionally and consciously shied away from the 'punishment' angle in general, because I had some physical abuse as a kid, and the above-mentioned issues (which he knows all about).

Fast forward to a few weeks ago. One of the things I take great delight in doing is making a restful, neat, haven for him to rest after his often brutal workdays. The bed is made, the pillows are fluffed up, the A/C is programmed to come on before he gets there, the TV remotes are ready, and the latest book he's reading is all there. He LOVES this.

After a 14 hour day for me, I was in a rush one morning, and overslept, and did not have time to do this. He was teasing all afternoon about making my ass red, and I was resisting. And I couldn't figure out why. A couple days later we had our garage date night, and he brought it up again. He said to me beforehand, "You didn't make the bed. Why did you not make the bed?" Trying to deflect and weasel out of it, I said, "Because getting to work on time is important." He acknowledged that yes, getting to work on time is important. "Because I was tired from working so long the day before." Also important, but not enough. And I got the spanking.

And I was hurt, and it HURT. I kept thinking, "but I did GOOD tonight! (surprised him with a very sexy little lingerie dress, we had candlelight dinner and wine and dancing to Frank). "I had very good reasons!" (I'm thinking, not saying) He actually stopped because my tears and reaction was so strong, and we talked about it, but it became a discussion about not being able to safeword in the the moment I probably need to, a whole different world of topic. I was so confused about the hurt feelings and the punishment aspect that I didn't react the way he needs me to in order to keep the safeword - well, safe.

A couple of days later as I was making the bed, with some resentment, I hit upon why it bothered me. Because making the bed and doing those extra touches to make it inviting is something I do out of love and desire to make a crap situation better, not something I feel like I'm supposed to do. And the act of being punished for not doing it took the joy out of it.

So @Notelrac, what's your take on all this? I'm really curious. Other background - Neither of us generally works those kind of hours, but we're both digging out of financial holes, and it would be devastating to lose either one. And when we have the opportunity to work overtime, we take it. We're both blessed with jobs we leave at the job - no working at home, no stress at home over them, but we must keep them at all costs. So the job thing was significant.

Ben

Man.  Relationships are so complicated already.  Adding such a physical dimension to the way you interact with each other definitely seems like it can make things even harder to figure out.

On the other hand, dude.  Hot.  I'm sorry, I don't mean to make light when you're feeling confused, but hearing these stories about the dom/sub nature of your home life... it's fascinating and intriguing and a little off-putting and just hot all at once.  Thank you for sharing these things with us.

PhoenixDown

@Angeline You've pretty much hit on my reservations about "disciplinary" spanking. I'm too afraid of being hit in anger, I think it'd add an awful note to our relationship. And I think the line would blur between it being sexual and being disciplinary.... Like you said about the movie Secretary, would I start doing bad things on purpose to provoke it? I dunno, just seems a fine line to tread. I'd rather keep it all recreational I think.

Athena

It's never about discipline or punishment with us, unless we're role-playing Or he's teasing. He does spank me to tears sometimes, but it's more cathartic than anything else.

The Dom/sub stuff is fascinating to me, but it's too much like parent/child for it do do anything for me sexually. I don't roll like that.

Athol_Kay

@Angeline ;  Punishing wives for doing good creates a very negative response. I think you have to think "what would an objective observer think" when determining if something was really bad or not. Failing to make a bed doesn't merit such a response.

If you ever watch spanking porn, it's just comically dumb how often a trumped up charge is used to justify the spanking. "Oh noes! You're been smoking! I've told you what will happen if I ever catch you smoking!"  "Oh please Daddy/Sir/Master/Obese-dude-with-a-tiny-dick-we-never-get-to-see, it was only once!" "NO! You've been smoking young lady, get over here!"

So if he wanted to spank you that night, the better move would be to say, "Hey I want to spank you."  Rather than trump something up.

Blaming for you for not safewording isn't an apology for punishing you for not doing your usual above and beyond Beta sweetness.

Basically unless you're in agreement that you really messed something up, you aren't ever going to react well to a punishment spanking.

BrianC

I love giving my wife erotic spankings.  Once I got over my Beta fears about consent, I stopped asking for permission and just added them to my foreplay toolbox.  You can tell after a stroke or two whether your woman is going to want the full spanking or just a few strokes to warm her engine up.

A good indicator is if she pushes her ass out to meet a third or fourth stroke.

Some more tips:

•  After a few strokes use the hand to gently massage the same area  - little circles with the palm work well. This takes advantage of the raw sensitivity to introduce other erotic experiences, and intensifies the experience.

•  If she can't see what you are doing, mix up your timing - pregnant pauses build anticipation and heighten the experience.
• Light scratching with fingernails on the buttock during foreplay some time before spanking will vastly increase the sensitivity of the area.
• Alternating with the occasional goose (pinch) keeps it feeling playful if the atmosphere is too heavy.
• During a short break, gently brushing the buttocks with a silk scarf or ice can get incredible response.
• I find that after I've delivered a good spanking, I like to end with a flourish - a firm but gentle bite to one of the buttocks works well - I have been known to induce orgasms with this finish.
• I follow a longer session with sensual massage oils on the area to soothe the buttocks.

As to the moral / psychological aspect and the elements of punishment - I don't give it much thought.  I worry it would spoil the whole thing for me.  I actually avoid any talk about "good" or "bad" when I administer a spanking because it invites that paternal semiotic that @Athena was talking about... too creepy. 

In fact, I find it helpful to let her do all the dirty-talking in general at that point if she wants, to.  Silence helps build the sense of anticipation.

fullmoonmama

want

sigh.
(damn these awesome threads!)

Angeline

Athol_Kay said:

@Angeline ;  Punishing wives for doing good creates a very negative response. I think you have to think "what would an objective observer think" when determining if something was really bad or not. Failing to make a bed doesn't merit such a response.

If you ever watch spanking porn, it's just comically dumb how often a trumped up charge is used to justify the spanking. "Oh noes! You're been smoking! I've told you what will happen if I ever catch you smoking!"  "Oh please Daddy/Sir/Master/Obese-dude-with-a-tiny-dick-we-never-get-to-see, it was only once!" "NO! You've been smoking young lady, get over here!"

So if he wanted to spank you that night, the better move would be to say, "Hey I want to spank you."  Rather than trump something up.

OK, this makes sense - my resentment a couple days later for doing something I usually want to do was a signal that we'd misstepped. And no, I've never seen any of that kind of porn, and I think I'll skip it! LOL

Blaming for you for not safewording isn't an apology for punishing you for not doing your usual above and beyond Beta sweetness.

OK I really misstated it if it came across that way - the times we've had trouble with this was when I did NOT safeword, and the discussion was that this isn't exactly fair to the dominant person if they don't know that ahead of time, and he didn't. He can't read my mind, he has to go by what he sees and hears. The failure to safeword is something that puts both dom and sub in a dangerous place in a hurry, and the reassurance was given that he NEEDS me to give the safeword if I feel the need. That I'm not letting him down, I'm not failing, etc. That was the discussion and we got sidetracked from the other issue, which frankly I hadn't sorted out yet.

He kids all the time about giving me a spanking for misbehaving, but it's usually like you said, for something that actually resembles misbehaving (saucy popping off, that kind of thing). And it's fun, because I'm participating and even provoking it.

Basically unless you're in agreement that you really messed something up, you aren't ever going to react well to a punishment spanking.

Thanks @Athol_Kay. That nicely sorts out my issues with it. And it explains my vastly different reaction to the two situations.

Edit: We did discuss the issue of spanking for fun, vs. really messing up, vs. not doing something that I *want* to do, for him, and he did apologize, very nicely (I hadn't even brought that part up to him that night, because I didn't understand it). I think that actually was part of my surprised and hurt reaction, usually the spanking is "just because", not something invented.
And my apologies for not asking you directly on your own forum! Generally, you haven't been real involved in the dom/sub conversations. I should have known you'd have good insight.

Athena

I hope @brotherdance @Brotherdance (I don't remember which) chimes in on this thread.

Notelrac

Just about everyone commenting here is talking about erotic spanking.  Upon reflection, it seems like a reasonable theory that men and women interested in the mild power-exchange relationship that @Athol_Kay characterizes as "Captain/FO" would be drawn to this sort of sexual play.  It's all about the endorphins, and proper warmup, and embracing their dominant/submissive tendencies.

The *other* sort that people are wondering about is discipline spanking, or the "D" in BDSM.  This happens in a deeper power-exchange relationship than C/FO, which is why forum members are feeling a bit squicky.  The submissive partner explicitly grants the dominant partner permission to correct their behavior and apply discipline.  Painful discipline.

Why?  Because that's their kink.  Maybe the submissive knows that they have self-control problems, and want a strong Dominant to guide them in correct behavior.  Maybe their headspace is such that after the do something wrong (even if it's minor), they need a painful cathartic release as a form of absolution.  Maybe they have Daddy Issues, and cannot function unless they immerse themselves in a lifestyle where they are treated like a little girl.

Discipline spanking is not erotic.  It is not playful or arousing.  It is humiliating and painful, and not in a good or pleasant way.  But once the discipline is completed, the transgression is resolved and not brought up again.

Consider the two examples -- a sub deliberately putting a cockroach on the bed, and a sub being caught smoking.  The first is an invitation to erotic play.  The second is in fact a reason for discipline (which is why it is used as a frame for porn).  The sub will have worked out a behavior plan with her Dom.  It may be to stop smoking, or to exercise regularly, or control her diet, or her spending -- and she's asking for an added incentive to self-regulate.

The Dom must be able to distinguish between the two incidents, in order to not reward the sub for breaking one of her agreed-upon rules.  All subs will eventually "shit test" their Dom, by willfully misbehaving, or because they feel like topping from the bottom in order to get erotic play.  Experienced Doms watch out for this, and ensure that the response is shocking enough and painful enough that the sub will do everything in their power to not be punished a second time.

So, let's look at @Angeline's situation, and focus on the spanking she received after failing to make the bed.  Was that an invitation (like the movie cockroach on the bed)?  No, it wasn't.  Was it a transgression she should have been punished for?  Hmmm.  Let's think about this.  Did Angeline and her husband negotiate a behavioral contract, whereby she promised to create a comfortable environment, and he promised to discipline her if she slipped up?  Nope. 

So let's examine the mental frame during the spanking.  Angeline was expecting an erotic spanking, because she did not understand the several days of warnings from her husband that he would be treating it as a punishment spanking. 

Ouch. 

And because she wasn't mentally prepared, she was so confused that she was unable to safeword.  Fortunately, her husband was attentive enough to notice this and immediately took corrective action.

What should happen next?  The two of them have a conversation about whether to transition to a deeper power-exchange relationship.  If they do, it is important to clearly define what the limits are.  Angeline identifies what behaviors are now subject to discipline.  (IE, not getting her husband's homecoming nest in order.)  Then if she does transgress, she will not be surprised.

Angeline

Thank you @Notelrac, for the excellent unpacking of that. Now, we have some framework for making that all make better sense. Thank you!