My History of Failed Stage 4 Attempts

CyrilFiggis

I tend to post only when thing are going shitty. So to change this around I thought i'd post up that things are going well just now.

Fitness - my physique is improving from daily workout regime. i am able to increase the weights I'm lifting and the missus is starting to notice the difference. She was admiring my (almost) sixpack the other morning.

Energy - The mantra is you can't change other people - only yourself. Wife has picked up from my positive moves and has started to do more herself. She is more interested in sex and doing sports and generally more upbeat.

Finances - she was unhappy that I had rearranged our finances back in January and has been stewing about it since. Bascially I split our accounts and funded out joint account with just enough to pay the fixed monthly bills and then gave her weekly allowance for housekeeping. I've agreed that I'd been unfair and have split the remainder after bills equally between us. 

Frame - my frame is getting a lot more resilient.

Scarlet

Much better.  Good for you! 

The_Dude

I think your starting to get this. Keep it steady. 

CyrilFiggis

Yes thanks @Scarlet‌ and @The_Dude‌. Also @CartB4Horse‌ and @RoxyB‌. I think this forum is strong because people are pretty honest and don't sugar the pill. Whatever colour it is. Tough love is better than unqualified support for the recipient. This much I have learned.

I feel that this is now a critical phase of the process. She is starting to come round and bring some girl game. The pitfall is to think it's done and get lazy. If I let things slide now then it's won't be long before things go back to how they were before.

fredless

CyrilFiggis said:

The pitfall is to think it's done and get lazy. If I let things slide now then it's won't be long before things go back to how they were before.

It is never done.  You must always be Captain.  It must become the 'new normal.'

_io

CyrilFiggis said:

I feel that this is now a critical phase of the process. She is starting to come round and bring some girl game. The pitfall is to think it's done and get lazy. If I let things slide now then it's won't be long before things go back to how they were before.

It will be worse because you will have gotten her hopes up that things could be better and then dashed them.  The next time you try to turn things around will be harder because she will refuse to get her hopes up again and will just wait you out because she will be convinced nothing will really change.

You have to realize there is no more coasting.  Living an intentional life is your new normal.

notsure

I don't know if you've discussed this anywhere else, but since I didn't see it adressed here (or when it was, you didn't seem to change your approach because of it) I'm posting this link, that I really, really think you need to read through:

http://www.loveisrespect.org/what-sexual-coercion

Most pertinent quote: It’s not consent if you’re afraid to say no.

And I will add that I experienced a much milder form of the kinds of sexual interactions you describe having with your wife, and it caused me genuine trauma, huge loss of trust, almost complete loss of sexual desire, etc, etc, etc. It's been a long road back, but it can be done. Feel free to ask any questions. 

williamskevin

I've just read this thread from start to finish and wanted to offer my suggestions.

I admit - I'm new to MMSL - but I've been MAPing under a similar program for almost 2 years.

Most of CyrilFiggis' posts are months old, so perhaps things have improved lately? I'm not sure. But here's what I see:

- your wife is dedicated to you, but she's not attracted to you. She's probably confused as to why not as well. So she's currently feeling OBLIGATED. Not great.

- YOU are still rating your value based on how much sex you get. I don't read Outcome Indifferent, I read Passive Aggressive. (sorry)

- I don't read much Relationship Comfort but maybe you just don't talk about it.

My suggestions:

- pushing for sex while she THINKS you are a lower SR won't work. You get obligation with no attraction, and that breeds resentment. No matter what other improvements you are making, she can't see them.

- Instead, FORGET about sex for a while. 2-3 months. It won't kill you. In that time, still work on yourself, still do drivebys, still be the captain. 

- Organise dates, special nights, loving things to do together which ALLOW for sex (so make sure the kids are away etc) but don't EXPECT sex. You need to truly believe this. This is courting her - dating her. Show her the man you are, the great company you can be, the man she wants to be with. ATTRACT her back to you. She won't trust you to start with - she'll think that the attention is just to get into her pants - you need to absolutely squash that from YOUR mind. If she initiates - go for it - but she won't for the first while.

- This will stop her from feeling pressured BY you (as a PUSH), and allow her to see who you are. And by seeing you in a new light - in your higher SR - she will then start to feel pressure from you (as a PULL).

- Then, once she sees you are a higher SR, she won't mind you pushing for sex.

Remember, this process is all about YOU. Making YOU a better person. Changing YOU. And as a result, people treat YOU differently. 

CyrilFiggis

I've not posted for a long time, but I thought I'd check in with a quick update.

I found when I first started working the MAP that I was too easily influenced by other peoples comments. While I think they were all well meaning they didn't always help, and my flaky behaviour was in fact making things work.

I have calmed down a bit, worked the MAP more slowly and stopped trying to force things.

Our sex life is 1000% better - not necessarily in frequency, but certainly in quality.

The rest of our marriage is still problematic - we fight a lot still and there is a lot of resentment about how things played out when I first decided to force the issue.

We have started relationship counselling. People on here have been very negative about going to counselling, but so far it's pretty balanced.

I'm still optimistic that the eventual outcome will be happy marriage, and good sex life. But if it doesn't then I am also confident I will be able to move on knowing I've given it my best shot and tried all I can to fix us.

markymapo

Thank God you posted an update for me to read this thread. I have been here a while but so far it's one of the best written threads.

 I've only gotten a few pages in but I will make it my priority reading for the next few days. Great writing. 

Counseling is great if both parties are in agreement. If one is forced it could be a disaster. 

BTW, I would take quality sex over starfish quantity any day.

You should continue updating....