Wife text flirting with another man....again.

Angeline

Don't agree to keeping a facade, or to not blowing this up with the other Man's wife. Part of your conditions to allow her back into the marriage should be coming clean to her family (not yours, your family won't be able to forgive her) and you letting the OM's wife know what's going on. Keep him busy with his own shit. Even if you decide to take her back, your marriage will have some rocky places, and it will help down the road if she can't run to her family and talk you down. They may be grateful to you for forgiving their daughter, and they may be able to inject reality back into her head. Don't count on it, but dont keep it a secret from them. You deserve to be seen in a true light.

As you learn more about all this, you'll learn why not addressing the sex drive issues was a risk, but now is not the time for that. There is no excuse for cheating, but know that we will have questions for you on that down the road, if the crisis in your marriage can be averted.

Vent and puke your sad, sobbing feelings and your anger here, NOT to your wife. To her, be strong, resolute, rock solid that you will not be treated this way, that you will not accept this kind of behavior.

It is more important than it ever has been for you to be an adult, and not indulge in drinking to excess, angry displays, etc. Be sure and get enough sleep, eat regular meals, exercise (especially if you have not been, get out and take some long walks), take care of yourself physically.

John3

As you do your research, think everything through...anything that doesn't make logical sense needs a deeper dive.  For example, why does she need phone privacy?  Why can't you look at her texts? 

Birth control is an open question.  If she is sleeping with the OM, and having the chance to do it regularly, condoms get old, fast.  So any move towards some sort of BC, or even Dr.'s appointments that don't quite make sense (or regular ones that do) could indicate an IUD or BC Pills.  There are kits available on amazon for testing for the presence of semen in her panties.  They are simple to use, not terribly expensive, and are about as "smoking gun" as it gets. 

Unfortunately, him owning the gym gives him unlimited access to decorating choices.  Is his personal office open, as in windows with no blinds?  Does it have a (fold out) couch?  Are there other spaces which are closed off to the public (basement)?  If they are having a PA, there is a "love nest" somewhere.  Hotels get expensive, fast, and if he can just put up blinds in his office and throw in a pull out couch instead, it makes a ton more sense. If he's single, then there is good advice above on dealing with that.

Think through the logistics.  What are the "working hours" of the gym? Is she there after that? 

Cheaters spend money...credit cards and cash machine receipts are really helpful.  You are looking for things that don't make sense...the watch from the jewelry store, for example.

Cheaters are predictable. 

John3

One last thought, and it isn't a pleasant one.  How certain are you of the paternity of your kids? There is another thread here http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/9564/questioning-paternity/p1 where the OP questions if he is his daughter's birthfather...24 years later. Simple, quick test which is non-intrusive is blood type http://www.bloodbook.com/inherited.html . That may or may not rule anything out.  But if you are questioning her fidelity, then you have to look at the past as well. There is a lot of good discussion about parentage and what to do about it in the link above.

 

There is more info on VAR's at http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/261631#Comment_261631 and you can ask if you have specific questions.  That same discussion also gets into key loggers as well. 

CaptVere

A similar situation happened to me.  I did what you did.  I tried to talk to her reasonably about it.  I contacted the other guy several times about it.  I tried to make rules around it.  None of that stopped any of it.  The only thing that stopped it was me telling her I was leaving.  That's how strong this addiction is to them.

You don't have to put up with this.  She shouldn't want to spend so much time with another man to start with.  But all of her texts are so out of line.  What does, "last night was so good" mean?  You'll never know.  You'll only get lies from her.  On top of that, here comes the rationalizations about all the things you're doing wrong.  She's in justification mode because she knows what she is doing is terrible.  She has to rationalize it somehow to keep the fix coming in.  All that new male attention is a drug and she doesn't want to stop.

mixnmatch

CaptVere said:

 She shouldn't want to spend so much time with another man to start with.  But all of her texts are so out of line.  What does, "last night was so good" mean?  You'll never know.  You'll only get lies from her.  On top of that, here comes the rationalizations about all the things you're doing wrong.  She's in justification mode because she knows what she is doing is terrible.  She has to rationalize it somehow to keep the fix coming in.  All that new male attention is a drug and she doesn't want to stop.

I can hear her now, "last night was so good,  was our workout Mr Paranoid.  We did legs and really burned it out so hard I vomited.  Best workout in months.  Should I take pictures next time or video our workout so you can watch at home.  Fucking relax.  Go drink a beer!"  To make matters worse you aren't going to divorce your wife over this text because you really don't know the context either.  My wife doesn't power lift with other men but this sounds like a fairly good explanation?  I can hear her telling everyone you are leaving because you couldn't handle her working out and that you are paranoid.  Remember she is in a fog.  Even if she is in a fog I doubt she wants her kids to know what kind of real work out she was doing if you have proof.

Templar

Don't talk to the OM's wife YET. You need intel first. Telling her now will tip your hand and drive it underground.

RestaurantMan

Today has been rough to say the least. We have spent more time together today than we ever do. There has been a tension between us that has not been spoken of by either one. I feel almost like she's already on to me, but she knows she can't say a word. That's fine, as long as I can keep this inside around her. 

Yes, he is married. And I'm sure this will shock everybody and make me look more naive, but I know he cheated on his wife last year with another member of the gym (who was married). The guy was actually the one who seemed closer to the OM. My wife told me about this...maybe before their relationship escalated. Anyway, I'm not quite ready to trust his wife, as I know they have had a rough last year and I don't think she'll be a confidant. 

As far as paternity test, based on what I know about conception and the fact that my kids look more like me than her, I'm not going to go down that avenue right now.   

Most electronic communication (email & Fbook) is irrelevant in this case. I have her passwords for both and there is nothing suspicious. She is even an administrator on the gym's Fbook page and there is nothing there. I checked every folder in email with nothing. She knew the last time I read her texts, that I checked her Fbook, so I'm sure she knows not to message there. 

So, my plan of action is to get a voice activated recording device and possibly a GPS tracking device. She handles all the money, so any major transactions will be noticed. And we're not the Rockefellers. I've thought about getting a small credit card to purchase these items and getting them into play immediately so when I need to pay the bill, I've already got the info I need. 

Any thoughts on this? Any recommendations on hardware? Any ideas on accessing her text messages? I can get the frequency from the bill (around 100/day to OM) and phone times, but no content. She has an iPhone 5 with a numerical password. I have been trying to watch her enter the password, but it is difficult. The last time I read her texts I used online messaging through Verizon, but that is obviously over since I came out to fast. We don't have a land line. I don't think I can quite afford a PI, but I really have no clue as to how much that would cost.

I already can't thank this forum enough. When I posted this morning I was just about as naive as I have ever been, but you all have made it all too disgustingly clear for me. I will be calling a longtime friend of mine tomorrow to spill my guts and help me get through this. My goal is to salvage the relationship if she is willing. I'm going to focus on getting the hard evidence first. 

I wish I would have found this forum last time I caught her texts!! Your support and information has been incredible in just one day. I was hoping I would get at least one comment by the end of the day...little did I know. 

The_Dude

If you need an anonymous credit card for online purchases, pay cash for a prepaid visa.

stillasamountain

RestaurantMan said:

 I can get the frequency from the bill (around 100/day to OM) and phone times, but no content. 

I'm an old fogey who rarely uses his %#@&; smart phone as anything other than a phone but... 100 a day?!

Is that normal for anyone else here?

As a comparative baseline RM, how many times a day does she text you?

RestaurantMan

Yeah, I found the text usage last time I was "verifying" and brought it up. Looking back, I acted like a pussy and accepted her "we're good friends" bla

Well....It looks like our Verizon bill doesn't come with the detail. She the account admin and has changed the password so I can't download the usage right now. 

Ginger

It is painful just to read what you are going through, and how much worse to have this be your reality. The advice here is top notch. It is painfully obvious that the school of hard knocks produces a wiser counselor than most MSW programs. Hang in there RestaurantMan, you are not alone.

RestaurantMan

I get at most 10 texts a day. I didn't save the records I had the last time. I'll need to get the current ones somehow.

I will call Verizon tomorrow, but I'm worried that since she is the account holder I won't be able to get anything; or else she'll get notified. 

I'm hoping to get a VAR tomorrow, but I just want to get a decent one. She's not exactly tiptoeing around; as in I don't think she would ever think I would go this far to verify her whereabouts. That's how I found her out last time, she has no clue to internet history or anything, but she knows not to use the internet with the OM.

LazyAlpha

Not much to add on the technical details of catching the affair front, but I will add some encouragement to help erase any remaining bit of guilt or hesitation you might have.  It is your marriage too.  If she is wrecking it with an affair, you have a right to know about it.  That overrides any prissy issues of privacy.  If she is innocent and your marriage is in good shape, your suspicions will blow over as being silly and unfounded, and may even score a few points that you are a man who cares and are bold enough to do what it takes to find out.  

Also, all is fair in love and war.  If/when you confirm, no reason not to go complete nuke on the OM.  Kick him in the metaphorical balls and make sure he never comes sniffing around your wife again ever.  Expose the affair to his wife, business partners, employees, customers, etc.  Also, you are doing his wife no favor by not telling her about his previous affair(s). 

Plus fuck em all - you need to be a bit selfish and take care of your own marriage and more importantly, your own self and children. 

Bastuna

RM, 

Sorry for your trouble.  

One word of advise re: Verizon Wireless:  I am the account holder/admin on our account and I get notified for everything that goes on with the account.  True, I have set some alerts, but for changes on the account, VZW usually sends courtesy emails to the primary email on the account to prevent fraud.  Thread carefully, don't tip off your hand!

I have been trough a similar experience and can attest it is gut wrenching.  Take care of yourself and best of luck in resolving the situation.

TheEdge

@Posse Remember, they're business partners, so 100 texts a day can be easily explained away. "We like to text each other ideas since we don't see each other that much. We don't get along too well." "I changed the password because some bitch at work was snooping and trying to get into my phone. It's just office politics." "Verizon sent out this thing saying we should change our password every so often to prevent fraud." You: (Awkward Silence) Oh.

The_Dude

I wouldn't inform the OM's spouse prior to confronting her.  That has a high chance of blowing up and leaving you in a state where your wife can claim nothing happened and you were just a paranoid jerk.

Once you confront her, then you have two choices.  Either inform OM's spouse right away or use it as leverage to enforce the no contact rule.

Informing her right away will help sow a lot of discord between your wife and OM.  You want discord between them.  It absolutely helps her come out of the fog faster if she realizes what an asshole the guy is.  It also is really good to have OM's wife helping you track whether they are breaking a no contact agreement.

Or you can use the threat of exposing him to his wife as part of the no contact agreement.  You want both of them to agree to you terms.  The terms should be that they don't contact each other in any way (duh) but also that they explicitly agree to notify you immediately if the other person contacts them.  

Unless you have some leverage you don't have a whole lot to compel the OM to agree and abide by that.  So the future threat of disclosure is helpful to your cause.

You have to look at the specific situation and see what is best.

RestaurantMan

Thanks, everybody.

I just purchased a VAR and a vehicle GPS tracker from Amazon with my new anonymous email and amazon cc going to my work address. Anything going to my work is safe, as I am the only one who opens the mail and she is never there. I get them tomorrow and will be able to install them at night.

I won't inform the OM's spouse until I confront my wife; but I will inform her immediately after. I won't use her as leverage as she knew about the last affair and they just continue to go on. I'd almost believe that she knows about this affair; or at least turning a blind eye to it. I will, however, use my power to inform every member of the gym as leverage. It's a small gym and I am Fbook friends with a lot of the members. 

I decided to not contact Verizon, because I'm sure she'll get notified. But I've got to try and get her password to her phone. She explained the text frequency last time, so I need to get the content.

I'll keep you posted.

SMan

Just want to say @RestaurantMan , you should definitley also get the books and read the MMSL Primer before you confront.

Chapter 27 (p. 293) of the Primer is full of good information on how to manage the affair confrontation.

Also, Athol's blog has some good posts too.  Click on the link to the "Cheating & Infidelity" category.

Monkeys_Uncle

LazyAlpha said:

Also, all is fair in love and war.  If/when you confirm, no reason not to go complete nuke on the OM.  Kick him in the metaphorical balls and make sure he never comes sniffing around your wife again ever.  Expose the affair to his wife, business partners, employees, customers, etc.  Also, you are doing his wife no favor by not telling her about his previous affair(s). 

I agree 1000 times.  Time to get Machiavellian with OM.  I love this forum, but when it comes to affairs I often feel like most people here are way too lenient on the Other Man/Other Woman, or at least too willing to let them off the hook if they will simply disappear.   I don't think I could do that.   Ruin his life.  Ruin his marriage.  Get him fired.  Make him suffer in every way that is within your power..  And relish every second of his suffering.  The fucker thought you were so insignificant that there would be no consequences for his actions.  Show him how significant you can be.   If done in a truly epic fashion, the legend of his destruction at your hands will keep other men from trying to follow his path in the future.

It certainly takes two people to make an affair, but there is a special place in Hell for men who sleep with married women with children at home.  He deserves the worst damage you can (legally) do to his life.

PhoenixDown

@Monkeys_Uncle Actually, I think Athol has said so in the past. The last several 911 threads have involved men that didn't have wives of SOs, so the advice doesn't get given often. But you should absolutely nuke the OM.