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Bagelmeister intro
Bagelmeister
San Francisco, CAMember Posts: 30
Hey, I am a new guy on here, 34 with a 33 year-old girlfriend. We are not engaged, but are seriously considering it.
Our sex life is actually pretty good when we are together (we're long-distance 2/3 of the year), but we both see warning signs, and want to work on our sex life and relationship now, before adding marriage, increased job stress, and kids to the picture. I am the HD partner, and this stresses her out a lot- she worries she will not satisfy me as we get older and lead increasingly hectic lives. I worry about the same thing: hence my joining you all on this amazing forum! I would be happy having sex 10-12 times per week, she would prefer 2-4 in our current dynamic (she wants to want sex more often, but finds it difficult to maintain desire when I don't build sexual tension effectively, which becomes harder as we settle into a domestic routine).
Triage:
1) Medical
As far as I know, we are in great health (knock on wood). She was on hormonal treatment during adolescence and early 20s (they prescribed hormonal birth control for some gynecological condition such as fibroids- not sure exactly what it was--this was in her home country, not in the US). However, at the moment we are both in great health, and she is no longer on any treatment (except HBC for regular birth control purposes), as far as I am aware.
2) Structural
I am a relatively attractive guy, not big (5'10, 165 lbs), could stand to lose 5-10 pounds, with a slightly beta/nerdy/immature vibe. However, I do OK with women. I do have financial issues: I am steadily paying off 10k in credit cards and other debt, and will be debt-free in 10 mo. I don't own a car (waiting until debt is gone to buy one). I work as a researcher at a university, making ~50k/yr, and I report to a somewhat overbearing manager and boss. I have a Ph.D. and get to give talks at conferences and advise students periodically, but I have not yet "arrived" in my career. Also, we are in related academic fields, and she is on her way to becoming a superstar (part of what drew me to her is that she's insanely smart). The other part is that she's hot- she gets lots of attention wherever we go. While she always downplays her intelligence and looks, at some level she knows she's a catch. My only guess as to why she is with me and not a 6'6 millionaire is that 1) we have amazing chemistry, and 2) she is a handful. She gets stressed, anxious, and angry very easily, and is not good at calming herself when that happens. The result is lots of fights and tension- I think a lot of the men she has dated (including me) have been unwilling to put up with that. I finally got her to consider working on it, which is great because it makes our relationship better, but I am aware that I will have to step up my game as well to keep things sizzling as she becomes increasingly desirable.
3) Critical issues/neglect
We both travel a lot for work. She has always seen my travel as very threatening, and perceives this as a dick move on my part (again, the anxiety thing at work). She also HATES it when I flirt or banter with other women in front of her, and I have gotten much better at not doing this. As for neglect, I don't think so. I try hard to be an awesome boyfriend, and as far as I have heard, I take great care of her. The distance often makes us both feel neglected, and we do our best to stay connected through email and Skype.
4) Other guys
I really don't think so. 1) she is insanely loyal; 2) She is a crappy liar, and I usually know when there is another guy she is attracted to in her life. 3) I would be fine with her seeing other men when we are apart and have told her so, but she says she is not interested in this.
5) When did sex go bad
The sex is good. She is one of the best lovers I have ever had, and we have semi-regular sexy times when we are together. I usually initiate, and she is green about 25% of the time, red about 15% of the time, and yellow about 60% of the time. We are both eager to convert more of those yellows to greens, and to either convert the reds to yellows or find comfortable ways of dealing with them while avoiding the feeling that she is rejecting me when they come up.
6) How was sex at the beginning?
OMG, SO GOOD! It is still very good. At the beginning, it was insanely amazing, and very frequent- usually 2-3x per weekend when we first started dating. She loves it when I am super dominant in the bedroom, which is a new thing for me, but comes pretty naturally (as does she...). I think neither of us realized that this was a thing before we started dating, so in a way I get the "credit" for unlocking this particular achievement...
7) What is the elephant in the room?
1) I am quite interested in some degree of non-monogamy, and she is not a fan of this idea. I am open to monogamy with the right woman (she is the right woman) and she knows this. But she also knows that in my heart, I will always desire other women too (surprise- a guy who likes the idea of other ladies). 2) The sex frequency thing- I am terrified of 40-50 years of increasingly infrequent sex. I am super invested in making sure our sex life stays awesome, and she knows this. I think she feels like there is a lot of pressure on her to perform and keep up her desire. Particularly since she fears that if she can't satisfy me, I will cheat. This is not the case, but it stresses her out. a lot. And she does not deal well with anxiety at the present time. I have tried to explain that it is on me to seduce her, not on her to get herself aroused from a cold start, but she still stresses about this. 3) She does not deal well with anxiety. This is a deal breaker for me, and I have told her so- we fight almost as often as we have sex, and this is not something I am willing to accept, even from a hot genius who gives amazing head. I think we will come around to working on this (it is an area I could stand to work on as well), and I think we will actually benefit a lot from this work. But for now, it is another elephant.
8) Who is the leader in the relationship?
Probably her- I tend to plan activities and lead in the bedroom, but she decides a lot of things about when we eat and work, and which friends we hang out with, etc. I tend to make decisions by announcing preferences and suggesting ideas, and she tends to make decisions by accepting/rejecting suggestions, asking questions/favors that are really suggestions, or getting upset/complaining when she feels her needs are not being met. If I had to assign percentages, I would place the balance of power in the relationship at 55/45 or 60/40 her. She is terrified of being dominated in a relationship, so this whole captain FO thing is going to be a very tough sell with her if we try to do it explicitly, rather than subtly.
9) Tell us about the good times
Where to begin? Travel, science, adventures, and tons of amazing sex. Trips to the mountains, the beach, Mexico, Hawaii, and her home country, going on runs and hikes together, tearing up the dance floor, having cute in-jokes in multiple languages, hot monkey sex indoors and out, discovering her kinky side, sharing friendships and cooking amazing (and occasionally disastrous-in-a-funny-way) meals for family and friends, going to conferences together, helping each other out with dilemmas in life and science, evolving together, and more insanely good monkey sex. That's a pretty good start. The good times were really, really good (except for all the fighting, which was lame). They're still really, really good. We just want to put in place the processes and habits that will keep them that way! (And maybe have even more of that hot monkey sex)
Our sex life is actually pretty good when we are together (we're long-distance 2/3 of the year), but we both see warning signs, and want to work on our sex life and relationship now, before adding marriage, increased job stress, and kids to the picture. I am the HD partner, and this stresses her out a lot- she worries she will not satisfy me as we get older and lead increasingly hectic lives. I worry about the same thing: hence my joining you all on this amazing forum! I would be happy having sex 10-12 times per week, she would prefer 2-4 in our current dynamic (she wants to want sex more often, but finds it difficult to maintain desire when I don't build sexual tension effectively, which becomes harder as we settle into a domestic routine).
Triage:
1) Medical
As far as I know, we are in great health (knock on wood). She was on hormonal treatment during adolescence and early 20s (they prescribed hormonal birth control for some gynecological condition such as fibroids- not sure exactly what it was--this was in her home country, not in the US). However, at the moment we are both in great health, and she is no longer on any treatment (except HBC for regular birth control purposes), as far as I am aware.
2) Structural
I am a relatively attractive guy, not big (5'10, 165 lbs), could stand to lose 5-10 pounds, with a slightly beta/nerdy/immature vibe. However, I do OK with women. I do have financial issues: I am steadily paying off 10k in credit cards and other debt, and will be debt-free in 10 mo. I don't own a car (waiting until debt is gone to buy one). I work as a researcher at a university, making ~50k/yr, and I report to a somewhat overbearing manager and boss. I have a Ph.D. and get to give talks at conferences and advise students periodically, but I have not yet "arrived" in my career. Also, we are in related academic fields, and she is on her way to becoming a superstar (part of what drew me to her is that she's insanely smart). The other part is that she's hot- she gets lots of attention wherever we go. While she always downplays her intelligence and looks, at some level she knows she's a catch. My only guess as to why she is with me and not a 6'6 millionaire is that 1) we have amazing chemistry, and 2) she is a handful. She gets stressed, anxious, and angry very easily, and is not good at calming herself when that happens. The result is lots of fights and tension- I think a lot of the men she has dated (including me) have been unwilling to put up with that. I finally got her to consider working on it, which is great because it makes our relationship better, but I am aware that I will have to step up my game as well to keep things sizzling as she becomes increasingly desirable.
3) Critical issues/neglect
We both travel a lot for work. She has always seen my travel as very threatening, and perceives this as a dick move on my part (again, the anxiety thing at work). She also HATES it when I flirt or banter with other women in front of her, and I have gotten much better at not doing this. As for neglect, I don't think so. I try hard to be an awesome boyfriend, and as far as I have heard, I take great care of her. The distance often makes us both feel neglected, and we do our best to stay connected through email and Skype.
4) Other guys
I really don't think so. 1) she is insanely loyal; 2) She is a crappy liar, and I usually know when there is another guy she is attracted to in her life. 3) I would be fine with her seeing other men when we are apart and have told her so, but she says she is not interested in this.
5) When did sex go bad
The sex is good. She is one of the best lovers I have ever had, and we have semi-regular sexy times when we are together. I usually initiate, and she is green about 25% of the time, red about 15% of the time, and yellow about 60% of the time. We are both eager to convert more of those yellows to greens, and to either convert the reds to yellows or find comfortable ways of dealing with them while avoiding the feeling that she is rejecting me when they come up.
6) How was sex at the beginning?
OMG, SO GOOD! It is still very good. At the beginning, it was insanely amazing, and very frequent- usually 2-3x per weekend when we first started dating. She loves it when I am super dominant in the bedroom, which is a new thing for me, but comes pretty naturally (as does she...). I think neither of us realized that this was a thing before we started dating, so in a way I get the "credit" for unlocking this particular achievement...
7) What is the elephant in the room?
1) I am quite interested in some degree of non-monogamy, and she is not a fan of this idea. I am open to monogamy with the right woman (she is the right woman) and she knows this. But she also knows that in my heart, I will always desire other women too (surprise- a guy who likes the idea of other ladies). 2) The sex frequency thing- I am terrified of 40-50 years of increasingly infrequent sex. I am super invested in making sure our sex life stays awesome, and she knows this. I think she feels like there is a lot of pressure on her to perform and keep up her desire. Particularly since she fears that if she can't satisfy me, I will cheat. This is not the case, but it stresses her out. a lot. And she does not deal well with anxiety at the present time. I have tried to explain that it is on me to seduce her, not on her to get herself aroused from a cold start, but she still stresses about this. 3) She does not deal well with anxiety. This is a deal breaker for me, and I have told her so- we fight almost as often as we have sex, and this is not something I am willing to accept, even from a hot genius who gives amazing head. I think we will come around to working on this (it is an area I could stand to work on as well), and I think we will actually benefit a lot from this work. But for now, it is another elephant.
8) Who is the leader in the relationship?
Probably her- I tend to plan activities and lead in the bedroom, but she decides a lot of things about when we eat and work, and which friends we hang out with, etc. I tend to make decisions by announcing preferences and suggesting ideas, and she tends to make decisions by accepting/rejecting suggestions, asking questions/favors that are really suggestions, or getting upset/complaining when she feels her needs are not being met. If I had to assign percentages, I would place the balance of power in the relationship at 55/45 or 60/40 her. She is terrified of being dominated in a relationship, so this whole captain FO thing is going to be a very tough sell with her if we try to do it explicitly, rather than subtly.
9) Tell us about the good times
Where to begin? Travel, science, adventures, and tons of amazing sex. Trips to the mountains, the beach, Mexico, Hawaii, and her home country, going on runs and hikes together, tearing up the dance floor, having cute in-jokes in multiple languages, hot monkey sex indoors and out, discovering her kinky side, sharing friendships and cooking amazing (and occasionally disastrous-in-a-funny-way) meals for family and friends, going to conferences together, helping each other out with dilemmas in life and science, evolving together, and more insanely good monkey sex. That's a pretty good start. The good times were really, really good (except for all the fighting, which was lame). They're still really, really good. We just want to put in place the processes and habits that will keep them that way! (And maybe have even more of that hot monkey sex)
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Comments
Having been raised in a polygamous society, I can tell you that if I were dating a man who made noises about how he could possibly be able to limit himself to monogamy for the right woman but who believed himself to be polygamous/polyamorous in his heart, I would end that relationship pronto and run for the hills and never look back. Frankly I think it is a DLV on the part of your girlfriend that she is sticking around after that kind of discussion.
This is a critical mistake. You are telling her she has little value to you. Serious serious error.
It's possible she's a jealous harpy, but it's more likely that she freaks out about your travel and blatant flirting because you've told her your true desire is for some sort of nonmonogamous relationship, but you have made a rational decision to stay monogamous...for now.
ETA: If a man told me I was welcome to get some on the side while we were apart, I would assume that's because he intended to do likewise.The beta/nerdy/immature thing is definitely something I am committed to working on, along with another big structural issue (finances). I feel like these are two of the biggest things I can change to become a better man. Any suggestions on this front?
As for the freak-outs, she is not a jealous harpy, but these issues were part of our relationship long before any thoughts of monogamishamy ever entered my mind, let alone our conversations. However, the flirting is something I feel like we have a pretty good handle on- I try not to do it, and she has a code word she can use when she thinks I am crossing the line without realizing it. Not a perfect system, and not very alpha, but so far it seems to be working for us.
I had very few previous partners who were ready to go 10-12x per week, and every long-term relationship I have been in has settled into the 1-5x/week range fairly quickly- I just gave those figures as an indication of the current libido disparity in our relationship. I don't expect that we will actually have sex 10+ times/week for life, that's just how often my body wants it. When things are really going great between us, my girlfriend and I have sex about 3-5x per week, and lately she enjoys bringing me a whiskey and a BJ on the off nights when she is feeling super into me, but still not up for having intercourse. If we could maintain that level of awesomeness in our sex life over the long-run, I think we would both be ecstatic!
As for the interest in other women thing, I am wondering what action to take. We don't choose what to want, just what to do. For me, I think a lot of the interest comes from anxiety that she could lose desire once we have kids and I would be cut off, which is pretty terrifying to me. In addition, I like the idea of using sperm competition to amp our desire for each other, although the latter is something that we can probably achieve with salsa or blues dancing, as long as we both stay reasonably fit and attractive.
As for my current monkeys: 1) dominant vibe; 2) financial stability; 3) professional status, these are less about competing with hypothetical millionaires (she is incredibly loyal) and more about increasing my SR, becoming more alpha, and helping her be more into me in and outside of the bedroom.
For 3) I think the big strategic steps I can take are (in order of easier to harder):
a) Dress better at work (she is always encouraging this!)
b) Publish more papers (I have 3 that have been sitting around on my hard drive for a while and are 90% done)
c) Present at 2-3 conferences per year
d) Talk less in meetings (I talk too much and it comes across as beta)
e) Seek out more teaching and leadership opportunities when they come up
f) Seek out more grantwriting opportunities- she landed a big grant last year, and I found it super impressive- that type of thing probably works both ways.
g) Develop a plan for transitioning to a higher status job (in the same field) in the next 12-18 mo.
Wow, @mrs_h, that was insanely helpful! You are the best!
So the GF and I are long distance right now. She travels for 12-24 weeks out of the year, 1/3 visiting family in her home country, 2/3 for work. I travel for 6-10. She is very upset about my 6-10. It triggers real distress for her (linked to her generalized anxiety issues, I think). Plus, with our combined travel, we often go for 3-4 months without seeing each other, and this puts a huge strain on the relationship.
We have come up with some strategies to deal with her anxiety, but they all feel very beta. I have agreed to consult with her before making travel plans, take steps to minimize my travel, etc. I want to take a more alpha frame, but I don't want to come down hard on one of the things she is most sensitive about (she feels the travel makes me unreliable, and has threatened to leave the relationship if it's "always going to be like this.") My situation at work means that at any time I can be asked to travel on a few weeks' notice, and it is hard for me to push back--I feel caught between a rock and a hard place. I like the travel OK, and when I don't go it means someone else has to, usually my project manager, who is not thrilled about it. This particular issue may eventually solve itself if I transition to a more senior position, but I want a better solution in the meantime.
How should I handle this?
She visits family in Europe, and travels to Asia for work. Currently, we barely manage to overlap 3-4 months out of the year. I see this as a short-to-medium term situation. She could move here and keep her job, or we could both transition to jobs in a new place. This is the goal, but no timeline yet.
@Kivireki, it's a good question. She is the best woman I have dated in a lot of ways. She's objectively the smartest person I know, gorgeous, and the sex is amazing (though not quite as frequent as I'd like). We have a lot of life goals in common (though we're mismatched on religion), and we click. We've been together on-and-off for 10 years.
The long distance and her anxiety issues are real problems for me, but I think we can change both. Is this naive? Her incredible ability to learn new skills and languages makes me think that she could learn strategies for coping with the anxiety, if she were motivated. I am working to motivate her on this front, and I am working on taking action on the distance thing.
I know I could move on, but I feel I would have to dramatically increasing my SR or get very, very lucky to find such a good match with what I'm looking for in terms of great genes, great sex, and good companionship.
Advice?
I completely understand that monogamy is essential to the users on this site. I get that. And I can see why my interest in a range of options is what grabs many people's attention when they read my triage. If the deal is "no questioning monogamy if you want to hang out on this site," I can understand that.
When I was a blue pill, I never questioned it: wanting sex = bad, alpha = bad, monogamy = good. When I took the red pill a few years back, I started questioning everything. I am not done questioning. In my case, if my GF wants a lifetime of monogamy, that's what she's going to get--it's important to me because it's important to her, not because I see it as the only option that can be considered. I think a lot of people read "interested in negotiated non-monogamy" as "intends to cheat," but that is not the case. I know myself well enough to know that I am not a cheater. Whatever she and I agree to is what we will do. I also know that if I am in a monogamous relationship without sex for years and years, I will either end it or wish I had.
Before I came to this site, I just assumed that the only choices were monogamous marriage with decades of infrequent bad sex, or negotiated nonmonogamy, and a bit more sex with your partner and others, but lots of thorny negotiations. MAPing seems like a third choice- creating attraction so that the drop-off in sex that monogamously married couples typically experience is no longer a certainty. So that is my reason for being here- figure out how to make the sex last in my relationship, and become a better man in the process. For me, doing those things is my top priority. I know my willingness to consider alternatives to monogamy is taboo here. Maybe strike that bit from the record, if it makes it easier to talk about the things I am currently seeking help on. If that's not an option, I can graciously limit my activity here to reading for a while.
Suffice it to say that I am interested in doing whatever it takes to make my relationship amazing, with this current partner if at all possible, and with another partner if not. I get that this is about being a better man and building better habits as a couple, not about "fixing" my partner. And I get that her anxiety and need for stability is threatened by my travel and my "I'll try unconventional things if they will keep our sex life amazing" attitude. My top question now is what action to take next to get things on track. Maybe that action is "Start acting more like others." I have never been conventional, and it might be worth a try. But really, any constructive input is welcome here.
I could see her being anxious if y'all lived in the same city and you traveled but she didn't.
But you live 3,000 miles apart and you both have to travel.
Has she explained herself on that? Just sounds a bit like a double standard.
@Frillyfun, yes--we've had the talk. I want kids, she is OK either way. We see ourselves as married with kids in 5 years, hopefully to each other if all goes well. She wants to have kids either ASAP or not at all. I want to get a bit more stability in my job and see her start to get a handle on the anxiety thing before I lock us in for the next 25 years.