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Brief info looking for ideas
benjifrank
Los Angeles, CAMember Posts: 19
Hey all. I've been reading the blog for awhile (and similar stuff), but ain't very good at implementing it in my life. I'd like to briefly intro my situation and get some ideas. As a preface, I think this site is amazing, and a huge contribution to the world. A guy like Athol who stays positive and practical is worth a 100 cynical misogynistic Roissys in my book.
I'm 30, divorced, with one kid who lives me, and a 22 year old girlfriend who I love to pieces but can't keep happy (for the past year). She has some mild cluster-B tendencies and it seems like she's constantly mad about something, complaining, resentful, etc. She has some legit complaints but she also seems drawn to creating drama and conflict. She finds things to blow up about whether or not anything new has actually happened.
I'm reasonably attractive, in shape, financially/socially/professionally successful, etc. She's very hot and since she is young and not burdened by kids, she seems to think her value is way higher than mine (and it is probably a little higher), but she then says that I should be constantly begging her to stay / supplicating / apologizing for my numerous perceived misdeeds / doing grand romantic gestures to make everything up to her. I think that's BS and would only make her respect me less.
She likes to do no-win things like making me decide things that affect her, then getting mad about some aspect of the decision (which she can do no matter what I decide). If I ask her, she has no input, if I don't ask her, she gets pissed I acted unilaterally. She's constantly shit testing. When I'm calm in response, it seems to drive her up the wall that she isn't getting a reaction, and she'll amplify and escalate until I react. She has an amazingly foul mouth, when she gets pissed she'll just start trying to rip me to shreds, saying whatever insulting/belittling things come to mind, it's really sad and pathetic and just...ugly.
She is also a world-class expert at making up, and in-between the frequent fights is amazingly sweet, tender, kind, etc, great with my son, takes care of me, etc. I have my issues and am bad at breakups but I still wouldn't put up with all the crap if there weren't a ton of good things. She's smart, artistic, gets hit on everywhere she goes, is a great cook, gives good massages, writes me poetry, and 75% of the time she just makes life super-fun. In many ways she's just the kind of person I want to settle down with...and I know life with her would never be boring, and she'd never let me take her for granted, or get lazy about myself or the relationship.
I read the recent Jan 11th post on CH which totally reminded me of my situation. I know she wants to feel I am strong and solid and she is safe, and when she does we're very happy, but her efforts to test me are brutal. Honestly, half the reason I've stuck with her is for the amazing learning experience of being with someone so exquisitely sensitive to my weaknesses and quick to attack them, it's been truly fascinating. She often homes in on personal flaws that I want to correct to be a better man and I've already learned a lot from her. But I'm getting sick of it, and she clearly is too.
Anyway, I feel like we're in a vicious cycle where I've failed some tests so she doesn't feel safe so she tests me more/harder so I fail some tests. The more she feels wronged, the more she demands supplication and feels she deserves it and gets pissed when she doesn't get it...but of course, giving it would only make her look down on me more.
Also related: She's really young and she adapted amazingly well to my single dad lifestyle but she also clearly resents it at times, she wants to be romanced and spontaneous and be able to chill out without a kid around after working all week. That sounds fun to me too, but it's not something I can offer, and it adds to her demands. And with much of my time/money devoted to parenting, I have less resources to romance her with.
I could go on for hours, but that seems like plenty of background to get to my questions:
1) Is there a chance of this being a good LTR? Is the personality I've described just too hard to deal with, even if I man up and react in the right way? Or does it sound like stuff that would go away if I handled it right? Is our market value just too inequal for her to ever be satisfied with the relationship? Is she just too young to be settling down with a kid and I should throw her back in the ocean and set her free to be young and carefree?
2) I need pointers on how to respond when she starts complaining/criticizing - books or blog posts or whatever to read and practice. I've tried lots of stuff and mostly it just doesn't work. Any disagreement, anything but an apology seems to just rile her up more. But I also feel like I often get trapped in arguments and details and defensiveness when I should be reframing and teasing. It's hard since my reaction to someone being pissed at me is not to joke with them lovingly, it's to feel fear and then fight, freeze, or flee. She hates that fear (of course). I have done a lot of inner game work and in most ways I'm a very solid and happy person, proud of who I am and at peace with it, but I am not good with anger/violence or female disapproval/criticism, I get scared and feel small, and she homes in on that and feels utterly contemptuous of it (of course). All the standard relationship advice says the way to heal that is with a supportive partner who helps you feel safe, but is that just bullshit? Is a trial by fire the best way to man up?
Anyway, pointers appreciated, and any other comments/advice on my situation. I didn't answer the 911 questions b/c this isn't really about sex, when our masculine/feminine energies are dancing right, that side flows wonderfully. But that dance is hella hard to get right.
Benji
0
Comments
No, from your description, she's not good LTR/marriage material. Not a psychologist, but she does sound cluster B... at the very least, high drama. Even if you listed a bunch of her good qualities (you didn't), this girl is way too much work. Also, as disrespectful, vulgar and generally BSC as she can be, is this a role model you want for your kid?!?
To be blunt, you and your kid need a stable, loving environment, not a hornet's nest that is constantly being poked at.
The good news is you're asking for advise, so you're not completely swallowed up with one-itis. With a good MAP and more confidence in your SMV, I guarantee you will be able to find a high quality, sweet girl who will be a better fit for you and your kid. Let her go, move on.
When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!
"Stand" by Rascal Flatts
- You've already described the first stages of a cycle of emotional abuse.
- The behaviour you describe has all been while the relationship has been going relatively well.
- She is deliberately trying to antagonize you and escalates it almost every time. When she finally gets a rise out of you it feels like an accomplishment. That means she will always be out to beat her high score.
Remember: In "Cluster B Personality Disorder" the B means "Batshit".All men are great men, most fail to see the greatness in themselves.
Power, Passion, Principle and Purpose: The Wild Man Project
My most popular articles: The Art of the Apology (also on video), The Basics of Assertiveness, The Art of Friendship
Thanks for the quick thoughts all. I read an early edition of MMSLP.
In terms of my GF’s good qualities, they are numerous. My family life w/ my ex was bad, I was career-focused and my ex was neither willing nor able to be a decent mom. The fact that she wanted me to take the kid should tell you all you need to know about her. My son is way better taken care of with me & my GF, who compartmentalizes the drama, keeping it out of her work life and out of our (frequent) time with my kid. Time with the three of us is highly enjoyable and fulfilling. If she were mean to him, I would have dumped her long ago, period.
My previous relationship style was pretty dysfunctional, I was successful at getting laid but not at finding/maintaining LTRs, let alone w/ sane/quality women. My GF has helped me a ton w/ boundaries and the mental/emotional shift from “I refuse to commit, life is about flirting and keeping your options open and freedom” to “if you want a good, faithful partner you need to make them a priority.” Growing up, basically.
That said, I don’t think 3 more years on this roller coaster will be good for me, let alone 30. An occasional storm when I do something stupid is unpleasant but feels good for me. The 10 month-a-year hurricane season is a bit much.
I just can’t shake the feeling that if only I were man enough she’d be the ultimate woman. She’s the only woman I’ve ever dated who truly held my full romantic interest such that fidelity made sense. Sure, partly it’s the addictiveness of her drama and highs/lows. But she’s also a really fun, happy, intense, sweet person…until she feels disrespected / unsafe / unloved, then she goes to war and I’m the enemy.
I think I may have portrayed it a little unfairly in my original post, she basically escalates until she feels heard / safe / reassured / validated. But I’m often not able to do that, in which case she consistently escalates to a level of intense anger that I’ve never seen before and am not comfortable with. I doubt she likes it either, but it’s her go-to way of relating to conflict: get mad, then get louder and meaner until you get what you want. Abasing myself would kill attraction, standing up for myself results in explosive arguments, I want a third way.
Moving on feels like giving up when I have more to learn. But I recognize there may be unhealthy motives under that feeling.
All men are great men, most fail to see the greatness in themselves.
Power, Passion, Principle and Purpose: The Wild Man Project
My most popular articles: The Art of the Apology (also on video), The Basics of Assertiveness, The Art of Friendship
@benjifrank
Dude, don't make me take back my "not swallowed up by one-itis" comment!
Seriously, the general consensus is that Cluster B are great in the sack but even a hard core alpha can't control them... it's exhausting, unsustainable, and a waste of effort better spent elsewhere.
When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!
"Stand" by Rascal Flatts
"Treating her like a princess didn't make me a prince, it made me a servant."
Link to triage questions: http://marriedmansexlife.com/triage-your-relationship-and-the-911-er-category/
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but seriously, what's the point of subjecting your kid and self to a bunch of ridiculous drama when there's an abundance of quality woman out there who are eager to give an awesome guy everything he needs and could ever want?
Dude, I understand better than most... I was single dad, with custody of my three kids. Believe me when I tell you from personal experience that you want to get it right the 2nd time... don't traumatize you and your kid with another relationship gone horribly wrong again. Good mate selection can not be understated.
When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!
"Stand" by Rascal Flatts
Dude. You have a child, you shouldn't be playing these games where you are 'failing tests' for some 22 year old barely out of college just because she's hot. (she's very hot, isn't she?).
Your child is being exposed to, and upset by, her "blow ups".
You're willingly creating this kind of abusive household for your child to grow up in? Your responsibility is to your child, not your girlfriend.
She doesn't want a kid.
You have a kid.
Game over.
Yes, yes. We know. She's extremely hot and she's totally awesome in bed. You didn't say it but we can read between the lines. But you have responsibilities. You have to be a man now, not a cowering boy. Do the right thing by your kid and dump this immature, manipulative, abusive, temper-tantrum throwing girl.
What I learned, and what I considered to be key information, was the following: she makes you feel small and afraid, she's quick to anger, she belittles you, and will 'escalate' on you to get a reaction. Your fights are very frequent, and it sounds like she starts them and always wins them.
That sounds like an emotionally abusive relationship, and, depending on the severity, it could severely impact on your child. In short, this shit has to stop. It can't be negotiable. She has all the power in your relationship and furthermore she is abusing it, literally.
The other thing is that you introduced the situation as your 'girlfriend' and implied somewhat lack of commitment on your part. Perhaps if you stated from the outset that you have no intention of leaving her and want tips on how to save your (de facto) "marriage", the kind of advice you get would have a different angle.
Apart from that, your girlfriend - who gets hit on everywhere, writes poetry, and gives great massages - sounds like she is beautiful on many dimensions. The sort of girl many men would like to have. But in parenting - and spousing - the good doesn't necessarily equal the bad. One explosive output can't be balanced by being nice on other occasions or by positive traits.
If you can't get the upper hand, but you stay, she might destroy you.
Well, I don't know that anyone wins, but, yes.
Fair enough.
If I know that I've done what I can to be a good boyfriend, and she keeps doing this shit, I will leave. But the vast majority of her tantrums are about me failing to man up in some way (sometimes small, occasionally big). Her reactions are disproportionate and inappropriate but they almost always point the way to me being a better person. It's brutal but inspiring at the same time, if that makes sense.
It's a tradeoff. On the one hand, I have gotten lots of awesome crazy-chick sex over the years. On the other hand they have fucked up my career and my life.
Don't underestimate the crazy.