Together 19 yrs, with intimacy problems and heartbreak, looking for advice

abandon_twa · January 2014

New to the forum and sent here from another forum where they suggested I try MMSL for better responses.

I'm going to try to paint a picture to give you guys a full and unbiased account of what's going on because I have no one to talk to and all of these things are pushing me toward a mental and physical breakdown.

First I want to say that I love this woman with my whole being. She is my life, my heart and my soul. I would do anything for her and give her the world if I could. We have a beautiful daughter together and our life is pretty good. We don't fight often if at all and we communicate very well, which I believe is why we've been so good together. Up until yesterday.

My wife is disabled and has been on a great deal of medication for the past couple of years. I understand that this medication effects her libido and I'm probably one of the most understanding guys in the world. I don't nag her for sex and never have. I try to initiate from time to time to feel out the situation, but most times I leave it to her because I know she doesn't feel good most all the time. She tells me this all the time too, so I'm not just blowing my own horn; her girlfriends even tell her how lucky she is that I don't paw at her or get pissed/frustrated with her for not "putting out".

Recently however, I discovered she had an affair with a coworker. I suspected it for a long time, but I never accused her of it and never suggested it. She eventually came to me one day and just told me about it, because it weighed on her mind too much and she couldn't stand holding it back from me any longer. This affair happened almost three years ago, before her disability and she no longer works. It happened 2x and I have no reason to doubt her, since she came to me to tell me everything in the first place. I was very calm about it at first, then lost it one day and broke down on her asking her why it happened, why didn't she come to me, or was I not providing her with a satisfaction that pushed her elsewhere, etc. etc. I just felt like my whole world collapsed around me and while I'm doing better, I still get bad thoughts, dreams and think things I probably shouldn't. Again, we talk about all this. I let her know when I'm down and why I feel that way. I know it hurts her, that she hurt me; I can see it in her face when we talk about it.

Anyway, I started feeling this way again Monday and it didn't get better. When we talked about it, I felt like this time it was dismissed and she didn't really take it to heart. I began to feel like I was asking too much of her, that I was being selfish about our sex life and that I should be more understanding of her disability. What's worse, I started to think bad things again, about myself; I'm not good enough for her, I don't please her, she doesn't love me like she used to....

We talked more again today and while I felt better at the time, I realized that she manipulated the conversation some, which hadn't dawned on me at the time. She started to cry and said that everything is her fault, every time we have a discussion it's because of something she's done. She then said it was unfair of me to be so distant from her (Monday when I was feeling down), then suddenly turn around and say that I was OK with everything and that I was sorry to have brought the subject up.

I apologized for all of it, because I felt guilty for bringing it up again for discussion. Please understand that I'm not a sex addict or anything, but I love being with her like nothing I've felt before. We just feel so connected and it compounds my love and desire for her. Honestly at 42 my drive isn't what it used to be anyway. If we have sex, it's once every one or two months. We've recently been in a stretch of 6 months though, which has me concerned.

I guess I just needed to get this off my chest and my mind. I want advice, but I don't know what to ask. Am I being insensitive to her needs? Am I being selfish? Are there things I can do to help her feel more intimate, even on the meds? I'm just to unsure of anything anymore. I'm insecure about myself and none of this is healthy for either of us. I just want my wife back and I feel like I've lost her both as a wife and my best friend.

SignorePillolaRossa · January 2014

abandon_twa said:
Am I being insensitive to her needs?
Am I being selfish?
Are there things I can do to help her feel more intimate, even on the meds?

nope, not insensitive to her legitimate needs

nope, not undeservedly selfish

things you can do that *might* make her feel differently? yup

read the primer

fill out the triage

welcome - your journey to 'better' starts now - strap in, its often a bumpy ride

FlyingDutchman · January 2014

I'm sorry man! That just sucks! There is no way to sugar coat it. So, so painful.. I feel for you.

There are many here who have been in your same spot. Read the primer and NMMNG (No more mr nice guy) and it will open your eyes to how/why this can possibly ever happen. It's going to be painful, but you can't avoid the pain at this point. You are grieving. Its normal and necessary. You will be able to rebound from this as a stronger, and more fullfilled person in the end. Hang in there.

Welcome aboard!

abandon_twa · January 2014

Thanks for the welcome's. I'm grabbing the book now and I'll read it as quickly as possible. I'll have the triage done very soon. Thanks again.

AlphaVsBeta · January 2014

Yep, The Primer to understand the "why" of the loss of attraction and possible reasons for the affair, and NMMNG to understand why YOU behave the way you do...and the Mindful Attraction Plan as the roadmap to how to change it all!

The truth of it is that you have been living in a "blue pill" lie for a long time...AND your nice guy behaviors killed your wifes attraction. WE have all been there!

Your particular journey will not be easy! It never is...You will have to fight demons within yourself because of the affair. You need to understand it may take you a long time until you actually figure out what YOU want your end goal to be...This is a marathon not a sprint.

Welcome, and get reading! (and with NMMNG, start internalizing)

Templar · January 2014

Can you tell us just a little more about her level of disability, i.e. does it cause difficulty or pain with sex, etc. That will make a huge difference in recommendations.

sf64 · January 2014

abandon_twa said:

First of all, welcome to the forum. You will find a lot of good advice here. And you are going to hear things about yourself that you aren't going to want to hear. And you are going to get some not so helpful comments. But for the most part, the advice here is pretty good, if you are willing to take it to heart.

I'm going to try to paint a picture to give you guys a full and unbiased account of what's going on

When you do the triage, you really need to do a "deep dive" if you want to get the best help. Far too often, people do the triage and leave out a key piece of the story.

First I want to say that I love this woman with my whole being. She is my life, my heart and my soul. I would do anything for her and give her the world if I could.

In the lingo of the MMSLP and the MAP, this is "one-itis." Basically, you have elevated your wife to the status of a "special snowflake." She is "the only one." While this might seem like a good thing, it really isn't. All of us, every single one of us, are ultimately replaceable. Putting your wife "above you" ends up actually killing attraction. Pay careful attention in the books about this topic.

...we communicate very well

Actually, no. Your wife has an affair, hid it from you and lied to you for years. That is not communicating well.

My wife is disabled ... I'm probably one of the most understanding guys in the world. I don't nag her for sex.... I try to initiate from time to time ... but most times I leave it to her because I know she doesn't feel good most all the time. ... her girlfriends even tell her how lucky she is that I don't paw at her or get pissed/frustrated with her for not "putting out".

I would encourage you to also read "No More Mr. Nice Guy." This is classic "nice guy" behavior and is also ultimately not what drives attraction.

sf64 · January 2014

..she had an affair with a coworker. I suspected... but I never accused her of it and never suggested it.

More "Nice Guy" behavior. Nice Guys do almost anything to avoid a confrontation.

She eventually came to me one day... because it weighed on her mind... she couldn't stand holding it back from me any longer.

Did she actually apologize? Was she remorseful? I don’t believe you got the full story here. I don’t for a moment buy it was just 2x. Most cheaters try desperately to minimize what they have done.

I was very calm about it at first, then lost it one day and broke down on her asking her why it happened, why didn't she come to me, or was I not providing her with a satisfaction that pushed her elsewhere, etc. etc.

To be CRYSTAL CLEAR, while you may have done things that meant she wasn't attracted to you, but the decision to cheat belongs to her 100%.

You can't allow her to push ANY her decision back on you.

I just felt like my whole world collapsed around me and while I'm doing better, I still get bad thoughts, dreams and think things I probably shouldn't....

This is 100% normal.

I started feeling this way again Monday.... I felt like this time it was dismissed and she didn't really take it to heart.

She doesn't get to vote hear.

What she did was horrible and caused you great pain. It is the kind of pain that may lessen with time, but will probably never go completely away.

Frankly, her seeing the pain in you and know you hurt is the price she has to pay for her choices. She can't just wish it way.

I began to feel like I was asking too much of her, that I was being selfish about our sex life and that I should be more understanding of her disability. What's worse, I started to think bad things again, about myself; I'm not good enough for her, I don't please her, she doesn't love me like she used to....

This the “Nice Guy” talking

… I realized that she manipulated the conversation some, which hadn't dawned on me at the time. She started to cry and said that everything is her fault, every time we have a discussion it's because of something she's done. She then said it was unfair of me to be so distant from her (Monday when I was feeling down), then suddenly turn around and say that I was OK with everything and that I was sorry to have brought the subject up.

She is engaging in CLASSIC manipulative behavior, specifically DARVO. She is trying to paint her ad the victim and you as the bad guy. “How DARE YOU still be hurting because she cheated on you!!!!”

The truth is, if she hadn’t cheated on you, you wouldn’t be having this conversation.

I apologized for all of it, because I felt guilty for bringing it up again for discussion.

And her manipulation worked. You feel guilty because she cheated on you.

…but I love being with her like nothing I've felt before. We just feel so connected and it compounds my love and desire for her.

This is “one-it is” again.

sf64 · January 2014

Am I being insensitive to her needs? Am I being selfish?

No you aren’t insensitive or selfish. The opposite is true. Cheating is the ultimate expression of being selfish and insensitive. When she was cheating, she didn’t care at all about you or your feelings. It was all about her and her feelings.

Are there things I can do to help her feel more intimate, even on the meds? I'm just to unsure of anything anymore. I'm insecure about myself and none of this is healthy for either of us. I just want my wife back and I feel like I've lost her both as a wife and my best friend.

Saving this marriage is going to take a ton of work on your part and she may or may not come along for the ride. But if you follow the advice in the MMSLP and the MAP, you will become a much better person, deal with your own demons, and get the life and marriage you deserve, be it with her or another woman.

Changed_Man · January 2014

@abandon_twa

@sf64 gave it to you straight, you're not going to get a better or more complete evaluation of your situation.

Fortunately, you're here now, so roll up your sleeves and get prepared to do the hard work... You will not regret it.

Again, like @sf64 said, dig deep... The more uncomfortable you feel when you're writing your triage, the better. Be courageous, spill it all, and you'll get some wisdom from folks whose knowledge and insights have been hard won.

Can't understate how important it is for you to read the books... The primer, MAP, and NMMNG. May want to throw "Not Just Friends" into the queue too, for later.

TheEdge · January 2014

@abandon_twa ;I'd be curious what you mean by "disability." I'm guessing it's some sort of pain issue. I was a paramedic for years and still work some in hospitals (I'm in the health insurance field). You often see cases where you have a woman with chronic pain or random ailments, constantly popping meds and going to the ER, followed by a doting boyfriend / husband who caters to their every whim. It's a weird sort of co-dependency. I think they call it a "man that likes wounded birds" or something. The man feeds off the wife's illness, the wife feeds off the man's doting. It's a very un-sexy scenario but actually quite common. Does that describe you at all?

KatherineKelly · January 2014

@abandon_twa There is a term used on the forum called wife goggles. When I hear it being used I think of a type of love that is so strong that the idea of loving anyone else does not even occur to the person wearing the goggles and that they are loved in return with the same intensity.

Your love for your wife seems to be total and complete leaving no room for you to consider or be tempted to have an affair.

To love this way and than learn that the one you love has had an affair than brings into question the deepth of their love for you and all the feelings that go with this.

I believe that sometimes loving someone "to much" allows for the possibilty that you will be taken for granted and that your love has no value because it is given to freely.

You can love in such away that the person actually feels unloved in that there is nothing necessary to do to earn or keep your love.

There must be a balance struck between loving another and love as "self respect" so you do not lose yourself in your love for another.

I sense that you are very protective of your wife but I wonder if you are protecting her from your honest emotions and feelings and this results in her not seeing you as a person worthy of respect because she experiences you as her servant instead of her equal.

Often you see this same dynamic between a parent and child where the parent spoils the child by giving them everything at the parents expense so the child does not love the parent as "respect" but only as an extension of their wants and needs so the child takes the parent for granted and does not sent limits to their behavior toward the parent who they experience as having value only for what they can do for the child and not as a human being

I see many men and women doing to their partners the same thing parents do to their children and this morally weakens their partners because they make it to easy for them.

There cannot be love without mutual respect but you must earn this respect by how you love and if you love in such away that you turn your partner into a cripple morally they will act accordingly and this is inevitable when you always put your partner first at the cost to your own emotional truth and needs.

Being selfless in a relationship will corrupt your partner morally.

Frank_London · January 2014

abandon_twa said:

I just felt like my whole world collapsed around me and while I'm doing better, I still get bad thoughts, dreams and think things I probably shouldn't. Again, we talk about all this. I let her know when I'm down and why I feel that way. I know it hurts her, that she hurt me; I can see it in her face when we talk about it.

I have a quick tip!

There's lots for you to learn, but right there is an easy, quick thing that you can - and must - change.
Stop talking to her about your feelings. If you want to talk about your feelings, find a guy friend, a therapist, or come onto this forum. Hell, talk to your next door neighbor if you must. Anyone except her.

The shorthand around here is STFU (shut the f--k up). No more conversations about how hurt you were - and don't have conversations about how you want her to want more sex with you.

There are very good, solid reasons for this. Contrary to popular wisdom, such conversations don't help and actually reduce your wife's sexual attraction to you.

Frank_London · January 2014

KatherineKelly said:
Being selfless in a relationship will corrupt your partner morally.

That's gold.

SMan · January 2014

@abandon_twa said:

First I want to say that I love this woman with my whole being.
She is my life, my heart and my soul.
I would do anything for her and give her the world if I could.
I discovered she had an affair with a coworker. I suspected it for a long time, but I never accused her of it and never suggested it.
I started to think bad things again, about myself; I'm not good enough for her
I don't please her, she doesn't love me like she used to

@abandon_twa , @sf64 has already dissected your OP, but I thought I would put it into point form to emphasize what I think the core diagnosis is.

@abandon_twa : You are an utterly beta Nice Guy

In fact, I have to say, this is the most hardcore case of Nice Guydom I've ever seen.

So here's the direct & to-the-point diagnosis and starting point.

You will continue to drive her sexual attraction into the ground if you don't lose this Nice Guyness, to the point where she will only stay with you for your healthcare services (it appears the sex fountain has already been turned off)

Mind you, there's a lot to do after you've dealt with your attraction-killing Nice Guy-itude, but you can't even start until you get this NG thing under control.

While you need to read the MMSL Primer, you need to start with the real basics: you are at ground zero. I think in your case you need to start with the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover.

stillasamountain · January 2014

Changed_Man said:

@abandon_twa

@sf64 gave it to you straight, you're not going to get a better or more complete evaluation of your situation.

Agree. That was a surgically precise deconstruction.

OP, read it over and over until it at least some of it sinks in. Then read the 3 recommended books, go back and read what sf64 wrote AGAIN with new eye.

IceMan · January 2014

@abandon_twa, Do not get discouraged, these are issues a lot of us here are working on and I have seen plenty of guys here turn this around quite swiftly so there is no reason to believe you can't do this.

However it is a complete paradigm shift from everything you believe is right. Your comment below is quite telling. You look for women's approval. Tell me if I am wrong but you are more comfortable around women then you are with men. Throw all that out the window and start hanging out with men doing manly activities. And stop sharing your feelings with your wife if you ever want to have sex with her again. She knows she hurt you so anything more works against you.

" so I'm not just blowing my own horn; her girlfriends even tell her how lucky she is that I don't paw at her or get pissed/frustrated with her for not "putting out"."

IceMan · January 2014

Second point: What is her true motivation for telling you about the affair?

If it was to ease her conscience that was very selfish of her. Sorry to tell you this but you knew about the affair and were more comfortable pretending it did not happen then having to deal with it. Her affair was a selfish act as well. I think that you need to understand that she will put her selfish wants before your marriage/family. It is in your's and your family's best interest to put your needs before her.

Her motivation might be because she is heading down the path of infidelity again and needs you to step up. She wants to want you but you need to take swift action. She will want you again if you deny her this. Go back to your triage and identify anything or anyone that looks suspicious. There are lot of folks here who will guide on shutting this down.

The last thing that I can think of as motivating her to confess is that the truth was about to come out anyway and needed to tell you first.

The_Dude · January 2014

Like @iceman I am wondering about her motivation to reveal the affair. And I'm wondering what the nature if the disability is. Can you provide detail on that?

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Together 19 yrs, with intimacy problems and heartbreak, looking for advice

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