"I'll never look like that" - a spinoff thread

redheaded_woman

I'm starting this thread as a spinoff to @DrStrangelove 's 911 thread:  http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/8805/dr-strangelove-s-path-to-awesomesauce/p1

The key posts in the thread related to this new thread are as follows:

@drstrangelove said: "Big argument tonight that she started yet I kept my cool. She started the conversation and ended it too by leaving the room with "I love you, and good night"

What was the argument about, lol sex. She started it I swear I just ignore her now once the kids go to bed. Her question was wether content on my show is degrading to women. I said no.

My show is sports related but we have content featuring female models in scantily clad outfits (think like maxim type shit) maybe 5% of the time. I mean the target audience is male and it's sports so of course there will be a female component. Anyways she says that I bring that home and am sexually charged expecting her to be like that. I laughed and told her that seeing a woman in a bikini has nothing to do with me wanting to get in her pants. I get horny buttering my toast in the morning and won't apologize for wanting to have sex with my wife.

She left saying that at least now she knows where my head is at. Seems to think that the fact I dont think scantily clad women are a big deal is not setting a good example for my daughter or son. She added what if my daughter was doing that fir a living. I just said that I would hope she uses her brain but if she wants to model I would still love her and wouldn't think less of her"

Then: "

redheaded_woman said:

I would be freaked out too! Jealous etc.

Come on wtf. This only became a component add on of the show six or eight months ago. And besides, I'm not trying to fuck these women. I'm trying to fuck my wife."

And:

drstrangelove said:

The funny thing is that my wife actually thinks I want her to look like a supermodel. She keeps repeating how she could never live up to that. She's crazy man. I've never made her feel like she needs to do the fake tits and ass thing. I find that shit gross I itself. I like real women with curves and flaws etc. Seems like somehow my wife is running dread on herself.

I replied: "My husband hasn't ever "made me feel" like this.  I just feel it on my own. 

I look at lots of other women and compare myself to them - he doesn't have to *do* anything or *say* anything about another woman to make me do it.

I do it automatically.:

And finally the good Doc posed this question to me and I started this thread to reply because I think it's only partially related to his 911 post and didn't want to get too far off on this tangent there:
"But I am wondering, when/if he directs his sexual energy towards you. Does that not boost your confidence and wash away that self doubt immediately? This is something I think a lot about in respect to my wife and how she feels towards me and about herself. That desire to have sex and do dirty things to her, should that not make her feel beautiful and attractive? Or is it that women only get their self worth and beauty from within."

and a sample picture from his thread:

drstrangelove

Thank you for fueling my workout now with that picture

Very interested to hear your response to the last question.

redheaded_woman

I love the Dan Patrick show.  Watch it anytime I have a day off.  We even drove to Indy when the superbowl was there 2 years ago to try to see the show when they broadcast there.

Guess what?  I hate watching it with my husband because of those goddamned Sports Illustrated "swimsuit issues" blown up on the wall behind Seton. 

Stick with me....I'll let you into my mind in just a minute...

redheaded_woman

I also want to preface my response with a couple of things:

I have no idea if my husband finds any SI swimsuit model or VS model attractive.  I've never asked, will never ask, and he knows me better than to mention it.  He has never made me feel like he thought another woman (celebrity/ model/ or real life person) was prettier or whatever.  This is all MY OWN perception.

I'm what I think most men would call "cute".  I've always been very outgoing, had plenty of dates, didn't really have "body image" stuff until after babies. 

redheaded_woman

@drstrangelove 's last question:


"But I am wondering, when/if he directs his sexual energy towards you. Does that not boost your confidence and wash away that self doubt immediately?

Nope.  If I thought for one single minute that he was having sex with me because I AM HIS ONLY MORAL/LEGAL outlet for it, I would be devastated.  Crushed.  It makes me a little emotional just thinking about that possibility. 


This is something I think a lot about in respect to my wife and how she feels towards me and about herself. That desire to have sex and do dirty things to her, should that not make her feel beautiful and attractive?

If I know he wants to have sex with and do dirty things to me because he WANTS those things with ME, sure, that makes me feel sexy. 

If I thought for a minute that he WAS TURNED ON BY ANOTHER WOMAN and was having sex with me bc I am the only legal/ moral outlet?  I would be heartbroken.


Or is it that women only get their self worth and beauty from within."

I get a lot of my self worth/ self confidence/ self esteem from within.  I'm smart, have a great job, successful, outgoing, have a great life. You could put me in front of a classroom or on a stage in front of 10,000 people and I would be equally comfortable. I have no issues with self-esteem/ confidence outside of my naked body & sex.

I think most women learn how they perceive themselves sexually from men.  For me, that means that the VS model, the model you posted, the SI swimsuit models, the Maxim models etc are what men wan to see & to be with.

So, getting VS catalogs in the mail?  Makes me feel like shit. 

"But RHW, why?  Your husband wants YOU."

But, there's always that nagging feeling:  I've had two babies and 2 c-sections.  My boobs have fed two babies.  My stomach has stretched to accommodate two new human beings.  I will never look like *that*.

So, I (and probably more than one woman on this forum let alone the wives who aren't on here) internalize this message that men want a VS model.  They don't want a 40 year old mother of two.

Kathrynthegreat

Couple things.  I'm trying to remember the last time I saw a woman who looked like a VS model or Maxim covergirl out walking around in my area of North Texas.  I've seen a couple women in the wild that look like that, but not bloody many.  The women in my area are on a bell curve and I'm comfortably to the right of that.  Even though I'm a poor second to Megan Fox.

In the "show vs grow" thread, the point is made that heterosexual men rarely see penises besides their own and porn stars.  Women are in a similar situation in that the only nearly-naked women we pay attention to are ourselves and lingerie models.  And damn, we look worse than lingerie models.  Heterosexual men look at women all the time.  They look at soccer moms at Target.  They look at their buddy's wife by the pool.  They look at their co-workers and the moms at swim lessons.  Heterosexual men pay attention to all women's bodies, not just lingerie models and their own wives.  

When we look at ourselves, we automatically go to VS models and Maxim girls as a basis for comparison so we're on the sucky end of the bell curve.  Your husband, on the other hand, looks at you and has the entire female population as a basis for comparison, because that's what he pays attention to, being a straight man.  And damn, you look pretty good.  Combined with the fact that you let him touch your boobs and have sex with you, your frickin hot!

PhoenixDown

@kathrynthegreat I dunno, Megan Fox is lookin pretty rough these days.

drstrangelove

Kathrynthegreat said:

Couple things.  I'm trying to remember the last time I saw a woman who looked like a VS model or Maxim covergirl out walking around in my area of North Texas.  I've seen a couple women in the wild that look like that, but not bloody many.  The women in my area are on a bell curve and I'm comfortably to the right of that.  Even though I'm a poor second to Megan Fox.

In the "show vs grow" thread, the point is made that heterosexual men rarely see penises besides their own and porn stars.  Women are in a similar situation in that the only nearly-naked women we pay attention to are ourselves and lingerie models.  And damn, we look worse than lingerie models.  Heterosexual men look at women all the time.  They look at soccer moms at Target.  They look at their buddy's wife by the pool.  They look at their co-workers and the moms at swim lessons.  Heterosexual men pay attention to all women's bodies, not just lingerie models and their own wives.  

When we look at ourselves, we automatically go to VS models and Maxim girls as a basis for comparison so we're on the sucky end of the bell curve.  Your husband, on the other hand, looks at you and has the entire female population as a basis for comparison, because that's what he pays attention to, being a straight man.  And damn, you look pretty good.  Combined with the fact that you let him touch your boobs and have sex with you, your frickin hot!

This exactly. My wife nor you should not compare to a model in a magazine or tv because those people aren't real. They are the extreme outliers on a curve. Just like as a man I can't look at some men models or famous people as a comparison. Doesn't mean I don't at times wish I had body fat under 10% and looked like a supermodel.


My wife and normal women are hot to me because they are above the actual average. Not the average some women seem to compare themselves to.

Besides, it's the flaws and curves that make you special

SteveDallas

Just to play devil's advocate....

What I hear you saying is that you want your husband to have oneitus.

Not in the "I know what's out there and I choose you" sense, but  in a "I don't even perceive other women" sense.

It sounds like you don't want to have to compete for your position (again, just playing devil's advocate; asking you to consider and refute the statement). If he doesn't find any other woman attractive, then what motivation do you have to do the work to hold his interest?

This veers dangerously towards "why can't you just love me the way that I am?"

KatherineKelly

@redheaded_woman Realistically most men cannot have a sports illustrated model so needing to look like one may be more about wanting to be sure he is desiring you and not a fantasy in his head when making love to you or at least this is what my concerns have been with my BF.

I think it is their fantasies that we fear being hurt by because every woman wants to know she is enough for her man.

Separate from that if a man wants to leave you for another woman I think it is important to be clear in your mind what you are willing to do to keep him and when it is better to tell him not to let the door hit him on the ass on his way out, which is my mothers favorite line.

I do not like controlling people because it is to stressful, leads to anxiety and is a waste of energy plus I think it is morally wrong but yet you want to know the persons mind you are in a relationship with to be willing to become attached to them and risk an emotional investment in their lives.

It is the same problem with porn. Men are simply not built sexually to only be aware of one woman sexually and I think making them do so actually threatens to kill their sexuality.

You have to allow for a certain measure of fantasy but keep them grounded in reality.

Sexual energy needs to be channeled, not imprisioned with threats and manipulation because of fear and hurt feelings.

It is giving them freedom but yet no reason for them to want to use it and choosing your fights carefully concerning being respected and them showing sensitivity to your feelings.

I know my BF in ways no one else does and this gives me incredible power to keep him. I know his fears, his tastes and distastes, moods, interests, quirks,ect..

The history you create has value and it is the foolish man that throws it away when he knows he has a good partner.

The culture poisons a womans mind into thinking that men are  superficial in their sexuality and some are but the wise ones know there is more to a woman than just her body.

My BF can look at pictures and have his fantasies but pleasure happens in real life.

A man who can only desire an image is no man at all because he lives only in his mind and not in the world where life really takes place.

redheaded_woman

Jeeeezus, @drstrangelove - you owe me a bottle of Maker's!  I'm feeling very raw.

Hell, maybe I've internalized all this junk because he's always been "meh" about sex.

@stevedallas said: "If he doesn't find any other woman attractive, then what motivation do you have to do the work to hold his interest?"

That's a very interesting question. I don't think of working out / trying to stay in shape as an attempt to "hold his interest."

I do it to feel good about myself.  Not to make him feel good about me.  If I were doing all the things I do to make myself look good just to get a reaction out of him, I'd have stopped years ago.

SteveDallas

@redheaded_woman said:

stevedallas said: "If he doesn't find any other woman attractive, then what motivation do you have to do the work to hold his interest?"

That's a very interesting question. I don't think of working out / trying to stay in shape as an attempt to "hold his interest."

I do it to feel good about myself.  Not to make him feel good about me.  If I were doing all the things I do to make myself look good just to get a reaction out of him, I'd have stopped years ago.

But isn't the one of the key themes of this forum?
Q: Hi, I'm new here. My wife doesn't want to have sex with me anymore, blah blah blah
A: She's not attracted to you. Go work out, change your wardrobe, brush your teeth, etc.

redheaded_woman

@stevedallas - yes, it is.....

But I don't understand how "she's not attracted to you" applies to what I said in that quoted post.

please 'splain.

SteveDallas

redheaded_woman said:

@stevedallas - yes, it is.....

But I don't understand how "she's not attracted to you" applies to what I said in that quoted post.

please 'splain.

You said you don't stay in shape to hold his interest and "If I were doing all the things I do to make myself look good just to get a reaction out of him, I'd have stopped years ago."

You don't want him to notice the attractiveness of other women and you don't express interest in maintaining yourself for the purpose of attracting your husband.

What will be your course of action when he is no longer finds you attractive?

If you showed up here and described that scenario, the response would be, "up your girl game and give your husband a reason to be attracted to you". That was my point.

redheaded_woman

@Ms_fit I'd be 100 x more likely to look at porn with hub.  Those women are "real". 

Porn has actually helped my body image issues some - the women come in all shapes and sizes, hair color, big boobs/ little boobs etc.

It's the "models" that make me want to stab something.

@ everybody else -  I still feel like even with my preface at the beginning I've made it sound like I think my husband is doing something wrong.  He's not.  This is all in my head.

I know where it comes from - boyfriend at 17 thru freshman year of college compared me to every imaginable person - real life or model.  His favorite real life comparisons were a couple of cheerleaders (blonde) and his favorite models he compared me to were Kathy Ireland and Stephanie Seymour.  And he loved the fucking Barbi Twins.

Imagine being a freshman in college and having your boyfriend show you the Stephanie Seymour issue of Playboy because he thought she was so hot.  And being so excited about his new Barbi Twins calendar.

So, yep, there's my baggage folks. 

Tiberius

when I was a young very awkward 23 we were at a part at my mid 30's uncle's house and he was appreciating the rack of a college friend of my cousin. I was shocked (he was married, I was naive). 

he said to me something like "Look Tiberius, it's not like I'd want to move to Paris, but I wouldn't mind visiting for a night.

SteveDallas

redheaded_woman said:

I know where it comes from - boyfriend at 17 thru freshman year of college compared me to every imaginable person - real life or model.  His favorite real life comparisons were a couple of cheerleaders (blonde) and his favorite models he compared me to were Kathy Ireland and Stephanie Seymour.  And he loved the fucking Barbi Twins.

Imagine being a freshman in college and having your boyfriend show you the Stephanie Seymour issue of Playboy because he thought she was so hot.  And being so excited about his new Barbi Twins calendar.

So, yep, there's my baggage folks. 

That's a hell of a thing to have happen to you. I'm sorry to hear some douchebag put you through that.

But, don't judge a concept by its abuses. Men like to look at women and women like to be looked at. All in all, it's a good model. Some idiots just take it too far.

redheaded_woman

@SteveDallas said:

redheaded_woman said:

@stevedallas - yes, it is.....

But I don't understand how "she's not attracted to you" applies to what I said in that quoted post.

please 'splain.

You said you don't stay in shape to hold his interest and "If I were doing all the things I do to make myself look good just to get a reaction out of him, I'd have stopped years ago."

You don't want him to notice the attractiveness of other women and you don't express interest in maintaining yourself for the purpose of attracting your husband.

What will be your course of action when he is no longer finds you attractive?

If you showed up here and described that scenario, the response would be, "up your girl game and give your husband a reason to be attracted to you". That was my point.

maybe you don't understand what I meant by that bolded statement.

He doesn't act like he gives a shit how I look.  If I only worked out to try to get him to notice me, I'd have given up long ago b/c he doesn't notice me.

make more sense now?

drstrangelove

I'm not sure if this will make any sense but it does to me for some reason when thinking of this topic.

I love sushi
I love pepperoni pizza
I love craft beer

But some ribs that I rubbed in spice and smoked to perfection over the course of a few hours... Oh man that's what I'm talking about. Getting my hands in there tearing up that flesh and just getting messy. That's a meal.

drstrangelove

redheaded_woman said:

Jeeeezus, @drstrangelove - you owe me a bottle of Maker's!  I'm feeling very raw.

Hell, maybe I've internalized all this junk because he's always been "meh" about sex.



@stevedallas said: "If he doesn't find any other woman attractive, then
what motivation do you have to do the work to hold his interest?"



That's a very interesting question.

I don't think of working out / trying to stay in shape as an attempt to
"hold his interest."

I do it to feel good about myself.  Not to make him feel good about me.  If I were doing all the things I do to make myself look good just to get a reaction out of him, I'd have stopped years ago.

I'll buy the bourbon as long as you share

redheaded_woman

@stevedallas ; Thanks for saying that.

I can only assume he notices other women???  I really don't know.

But, I don't want to know about it.  Ever.