"I'll never look like that" - a spinoff thread

Shepard

redheaded_woman said:

So, getting VS catalogs in the mail?  Makes me feel like shit. 

"But RHW, why?  Your husband wants YOU."

But, there's always that nagging feeling:  I've had two babies and 2 c-sections.  My boobs have fed two babies.  My stomach has stretched to accommodate two new human beings.  I will never look like *that*.

So, I (and probably more than one woman on this forum let alone the wives who aren't on here) internalize this message that men want a VS model.  They don't want a 40 year old mother of two.

I look at VS catalogs. Right there at the dinner table with my wife. I look through them and many other catalogs getting ideas for things for her to wear, not to drool over the other models you see there. I'll also ask her to point out things she likes.

My wife has occasionally expressed the same self-esteem issues you talk about here. My response was to remind her that out of the 3 billion other women on the planet, she was the one I choose to spend my life with. This is not oneitis. This is simply the result of making a choice, the same choice that @davebowman reminds us of in his Cautionary Tale. Because honestly, this is how I feel every time my wife and have sex. It's what reconnecting and feeling connected is all about :

"It all came rushing back. All of it, flowing over me like a tidal wave of emotion, lust, and joy. In front of me wasn't a dumpy aging wife. In front of me was a goddess, radiant, erotic, and shining with energy."

Olddog

I'm a fairly confident person. And I know men notice women, probably much more so than a lot of women do men. (My father, in the course of driving around doing his work, would often point out good looking women to my brothers.)

BUT when my marriage was shaky, it bothered me a lot. At that time I felt I was being compared with 'them', and perceived lacking.  I can work on changing a lot of things (attitude, force of personality, perceived intelligence etc.), but I can't really change what I was given to work with physically (not without surgery anyway). I felt kinda hopeless at the time, 'how do I even 'compete' with that???' I even tried to have a conversation with him about how much it hurt at that point. So even though he came back with a variation of  DrSL's ""But I am wondering, when/if he directs his sexual energy towards you. Does that not boost your confidence and wash away that self doubt immediately? "  No, it didn't. Now there were also other issues at play, but that's where I was emotionally at that point.

Most of the time, it doesn't bother me, and I can shrug it off, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a bit of a sting to it.

Cowboy

The great paradox of committed men is that we expend a lot of energy noting women physically -- and it doesn't really have any impact on our behavior. To put it another way: when I am getting warmth at home, other women are just something shiny. The only time they become tempting is when my wife is acting like a cold bitch.

Olddog

So if it's a negative cycle, what actions break it?

redheaded_woman

@purple said: "My thought here, @Redheaded_woman, is that perhaps if your husband were noticing YOU and giving you a lot of sexual attention, it wouldn't bother you much at all if he noticed another woman and if you were aware of it."

I don't know????? I hope to never find out honestly.

Too much baggage there I think. He hasn't ever blatantly noticed another woman in my presence so I have no idea.

But it's a huge, big, ginormous trigger for me. It would be bad. Like probably say-things-I-couldn't-take-back bad.

C'mon, I cried when I read davebowman's thread about finding the last woman to go on his list of celebrities for God's sake.

AheadOfTheCurve

@redheaded_woman said:

But, there's always that nagging feeling:  I've had two babies and 2 c-sections.  My boobs have fed two babies.  My stomach has stretched to accommodate two new human beings.  I will never look like *that*.

So, I (and probably more than one woman on this forum let alone the wives who aren't on here) internalize this message that men want a VS model.  They don't want a 40 year old mother of two.

My wife has some of the very same issues (but only one C-section...the first was natural and painful and scary for all concerned). She doesn't look like the little redheaded 20-year old hottie I met back when the Earth Was Cooling.

She also has a hysterectomy scar that drives her nuts. I explained to her that I don't see those things as imperfections -- they just remind me of what she went thru to give birth to my sons. It's a reminder of all the things we've done together over three-plus decades. They're battle scars, well-earned and all part of the deal.

We're not talking Wife Goggles here. We're talking a life lived together, triumphs and tragedies, good times and bad times (times that almost destroyed our marriage), the whole schmear. But we got thru it all, and we're still together.

Besides, I'm not exactly mint condition anymore either. I have a titanium hip that means she's not the only one groping me -- the TSA gets their turn, too.

Of course, she's still a little tiger in the sack. That doesn't hurt anything either. Nor does the fact I know exactly what buttons to push on her...and that I've found a couple more recently, much to her delight. And mine.

Sure, I notice other women. So effing what? I don't want them. I want her. And I've explained that I want her Frequently. She seems to like that idea.

Basically...you're overthinking it. Here's a photo that says it best:

redheaded_woman

ok, so I started this thread to give @drstrangelove some insight about how his wife might be thinking about these models he works with.  And apparently I did a terrible job of answering his original question because I've dredged up shit in my life that I'd have rather not dredged up.  *insert emoticon dragging suitcases*

Back to this statement in the original post:  "Anyways she says that I bring that home and am sexually charged expecting her to be like that. I laughed and told her that seeing a woman in a

bikini has nothing to do with me wanting to get in her pants. I get horny buttering my toast in the morning and won't apologize for wanting to have sex with my wife."

Ok, to an extent yes. Your libido is a normal healthy male libido. But, I think your wife needs to hear that you want to have sex with *her*.  Not just that you want to have sex. Or that you're horny any time / any place.

Now, some guys will argue that puts her in a "power position" as if letting her know that reaffirms that she controls the sex.

I think guys can do this from an alpha frame without giving up any power.  You could have said something along the lines of having a normal sex drive and sex being part of marriage and left it there.  The difference is:

Beta = please, won't you come down from the mountain on high and share your golden vagina?

Alpha = yes, I think about having sex with you and I won't apologize for wanting to have sex with my wife.  

Telling her that it's *her* you want doesn't have to be done in a Beta way.

When I said all of this in response to your question, the point I was trying to make is that it's perfectly ok to own your sexuality, but you could try to do it in a way that acknowledges that you want HER.  Especially considering the whole parent/ abandonment/ affection issues. 

"But I am wondering, when/if he directs his sexual energy towards you. Does that not boost your confidence and wash away that self doubt immediately?

Nope.  If I thought for one single minute that he was having sex with me because I AM HIS ONLY MORAL/LEGAL outlet for it, I would be devastated.  Crushed.  It makes me a little emotional just thinking about that possibility. 


This is something I think a lot about in respect to my wife and how she feels towards me and about herself. That desire to have sex and do dirty things to her, should that not make her feel beautiful and attractive?

If I know he wants to have sex with and do dirty things to me because he WANTS those things with ME, sure, that makes me feel sexy. 

If I thought for a minute that he WAS TURNED ON BY ANOTHER WOMAN and was having sex with me bc I am the only legal/ moral outlet?  I would be heartbroken.

Side note:  I also think her talking about it being degrading to women was really her hamster's way of saying she felt something about it herself.  Now, whether she feels jealous or disrespected or angry or whatever, I don't know.  But I think that was a way to bring it up without taking direct ownership of her problem with it.

Scarlet

SteveDallas said:

But isn't the one of the key themes of this forum? 

Q: Hi, I'm new here. My wife doesn't want to have sex with me anymore, blah blah blah
A: She's not attracted to you. Go work out, change your wardrobe, brush your teeth, etc.

It doesn't work that way for women who come here.   When a man doesn't have a decent sex drive, there's something wrong with him, so while we forum FOs certainly need to address the physical part of our MAP, it's never been *the* problem, for women who come here.  Not one single time.   So no, when a woman shows up here the base answer is not "up your girl game and make him attracted to you."  It's "exercise and run your MAP so you're in a position to make demands, and figure out what's wrong with him so you can demand that he fix it."

And having BTDT, a husband's lack of interest can absolutely make his wife feel anxious about comparisons.  When your dh isn't showing YOU interest, and then his eye is caught by someone else, you're trying to think of why the difference, and our brains tend to conclude that it's because we're terrible looking.  

Mr_Brown

I think that only women can really answer this question...

As a guy I want my wife to have a higher self esteem... I think she's sexy even with a baby pooch and a c section scar... That's from making our babies! If we had a spare couple grand I'd get her a tummy tuck, just so she could get over it.

I can't help but notice a good looking women when she's walking by but for some reason I focus on her flaws, it could be a nose, teeth, snobbishness or her hair but when I'm looking at my wife I don't see those things #wifegoggles.

redheaded_woman

@redpillnewb yep, he started T therapy late fall.

SteveDallas

@Scarlet said:

It doesn't work that way for women who come here.   When a man doesn't have a decent sex drive, there's something wrong with him, so while we forum FOs certainly need to address the physical part of our MAP, it's never been *the* problem, for women who come here.  Not one single time.   So no, when a woman shows up here the base answer is not "up your girl game and make him attracted to you."  It's "exercise and run your MAP so you're in a position to make demands, and figure out what's wrong with him so you can demand that he fix it."

There are no unattractive women on MMSL?

Interesting.

Scarlet

SteveDallas said:

@Scarlet said:

It doesn't work that way for women who come here.   When a man doesn't have a decent sex drive, there's something wrong with him, so while we forum FOs certainly need to address the physical part of our MAP, it's never been *the* problem, for women who come here.  Not one single time.   So no, when a woman shows up here the base answer is not "up your girl game and make him attracted to you."  It's "exercise and run your MAP so you're in a position to make demands, and figure out what's wrong with him so you can demand that he fix it."

There are no unattractive women on MMSL?

Interesting.

If that's what you took from my post, I don't even know what to tell you.  

SteveDallas

Scarlet said:

SteveDallas said:

@Scarlet said:

It doesn't work that way for women who come here.   When a man doesn't have a decent sex drive, there's something wrong with him, so while we forum FOs certainly need to address the physical part of our MAP, it's never been *the* problem, for women who come here.  Not one single time.   So no, when a woman shows up here the base answer is not "up your girl game and make him attracted to you."  It's "exercise and run your MAP so you're in a position to make demands, and figure out what's wrong with him so you can demand that he fix it."

There are no unattractive women on MMSL?

Interesting.

If that's what you took from my post, I don't even know what to tell you.  

"When a man doesn't have a decent sex drive, there's something wrong with him,..... it's never been *the* problem, for women who come here.  Not one single time.......and figure out what's wrong with him so you can demand that he fix it."

The alternative interpretation would be that it is the man's fault, every single time, and women only come here so they can learn how to demand he fix it.

I like the first interpretation better.

drstrangelove

So the question then becomes how you make your woman feel like the object of your desire while still maintaining that her magic vagina has no control over you?

Pirouette

I realize VS and SI models are unattainable goals for women, but like @kathrynthegreat stated, there is a sense of competition that when we're in public we want to be hotter than most. We do look at other women and compare. We DO look at what our man notes as hot and try to be better than that.

For me, I'm a lot like @redheaded_woman in that I'm very strong and confident in life except when it comes down to my body. I see the stretch marks, etc. And now that, due to MAPing, he has a rocking body, I'm more conscious of those flaws.

I'm not sitting on the couch eating potato chips. I'm very active exercising 5-6 days a week. My H loves my body, but I feel like I'm still competing with the hot chick in public and then it cycle backs to my extra 5lbs, stretch marks and wrinkles.

redheaded_woman

redheaded_woman said:

@redpillnewb yep, he started T therapy late fall.

"So it sounds like a good time to deal with your baggage is...early fall"

Not sure how to reply to this clearly.  I'm trying to be precise in my word choices bc I know my posts in a couple of other threads caused you to hear a tone of judgement. I'd like to avoid that.

I suppose he already notices other women??? Maybe/ maybe not. I can't stop him from noticing other women, but I just don't want to know about it, see it, or hear about it. 

Part of this is self-preservation I suppose.  He works with almost all women in a highly female dominated field (think @althol_kay pre-book writing).

For me and in my marriage, I consider it disrespectful for either of us to blatantly notice/ mention the opposite sex to each other.  What purpose would it serve for me to carry on about how hot Josh Holloway is? Or to crane my neck to check a guy out while we're out to dinner?

I sincerely don't see this as something I need to "fix".

Mr_Brown

I tried to find it but VS &SI models think that they are 7's if asked. They'll point out cellulite and things that need to be airbrushed.

stillasamountain

AheadOfTheCurve said:

They're battle scars, well-earned and all part of the deal.

IMO, that is an excellent frame. For both parties.

Part of a life shared.

redheaded_woman

@mr_brown - Exactly!  The whole airbrushing thing is what makes it so difficult for me.  Completely unrealistic.

I'd rather watch porn with him than look at a magazine with him.  The women in porn are real. 

drstrangelove

Pirouette said:

I realize VS and SI models are unattainable goals for women, but like @kathrynthegreat stated, there is a sense of competition that when we're in public we want to be hotter than most. We do look at other women and compare. We DO look at what our man notes as hot and try to be better than that.

For me, I'm a lot like @redheaded_woman in that I'm very strong and confident in life except when it comes down to my body. I see the stretch marks, etc. And now that, due to MAPing, he has a rocking body, I'm more conscious of those flaws.

I'm not sitting on the couch eating potato chips. I'm very active exercising 5-6 days a week. My H loves my body, but I feel like I'm still competing with the hot chick in public and then it cycle backs to my extra 5lbs, stretch marks and wrinkles.

The thing is, men have those insecurities too. For instance in my case I used to be a lot heavier in college when I was eating and drinking to escape reality. (321lbs was my max which is crazy)

Then I got my shit together and started taking care of myself. Met my wife when I was about 240lbs and have since improved upon that to an athletic 185-195lbs depending on if I'm in competition mode or just normal training.

I have a six pack and muscles now that I've never had but in some areas that's hidden because things never really shrunk back down from being so overweight in my midsection. It used to bother me a lot when I would take off my shirt in public but I've learned to deal with it. I know I can't fix the little extra flab I have around the midsection without surgery and my wife has always said I'm crazy because it's barely noticeable.

That however has never stopped me from feeling like a king in the bedroom. When I'm naked and having sex I don't think about that.

Perhaps that's the difference in men and women. Our testosterone and drive makes us feel confident or overconfident.