"I'll never look like that" - a spinoff thread

JellyBean

"And I still don't see why it matters which one of us is the captain."

I seem to recall you were originally drawn here due to wanting more sex and passion from your husband. It is a rare man who is an alpha tiger in the sack but a passive yes-man in the rest of his life. 

Being in a C/FO partnership doesn't mean the FO must be weak so the Captain can be strong. I have the sense you feel you are being encouraged to submit and give up power, and that makes you feel afraid. Does this resonate with you? Please help me understand more clearly. 

redheaded_woman

@jellybean

More sex yes...not necessarily more "dominant" sex.  I said way back in this thread I was just looking for some vanilla with sprinkles on top. 

He does what needs to be done at home, has a good job, recent promotions, is a good dad etc. He's certainly not passive. We're a team.

The question just came up over on the "last name thread" - or at least I felt like it was insinuated -  that maybe I'm the captain.

It made me wonder if maybe I really am the captain and if so, is that necesarily a bad thing? 

Just fleshing that out.

Ben

redheaded_woman said:

@chief_TC said "My wife was supportive of it the whole time."

I don't get that situation as an example of you having veto / ultimate decision power. 

Doesn't sound like you argued over it.

How often did Picard and Riker have a real knock-down, drag-out argument?

If the Captain often allows a disagreement to turn into an argument, he's doing a pretty shitty job.

HildaCorners

The Captain is the one who has *ultimate* responsibility and authority.

This doesn't mean they are an absolute dictator, demanding submission. Rather, if a decision needs to be made, or a responsibility needs to be borne, and there's no agreement on what/how, the Captain takes charge.

If there's a lot of agreement, as there should be in a marriage, it's hard to tell who is the Captain ... except for Frame. The Captain has the frame of a leader, the FO, of a ... first officer. [Strong, capable, but willing to support a competent Captain. ]

There are many styles of leadership, and of Captain. Some men are old-style "King of my castle" and give direct orders. Some guide by humor, or by persuasiveness, or by being quietly stubborn.

But all Captains are leaders, and know they are in charge of their group. As in Chief's example, the Captain is the one who makes sure every one under his/her care is in the tornado shelter, and if not, he will take the risk of hunting down the stragglers and getting them to safety before he goes inside.

Athol's Part 3 video covers being the Captain in detail.

redheaded_woman

@chief_tc  

I've decided it really doesn't matter which of us is what. We get along really well and have the same ideas on most everything.  

Thanks though for trying to give me an examples and talking it out with me.  {{hugs}}

Katt

redheaded_woman said:

@katt What's an example of something you couldn't agree on that you gave him the decision power on?

It's pretty rare and we can usually get on the same page, but there have been a very few times over the years with major purchases / $ decisions where we just didn't see things the same way and reached a point where he said "we're doing x" and we did.   No brawl necessary.   Neither one of us is inflexible, so we can usually work together to get on the same page.   In day to day life, he generally makes the  call on plans and projects.
   

forestleaf

@redheaded_woman, you know I have a lot of the same struggles as you do.  My H is the Captain (although that's hard for me), but I don't think he would be that if he hadn't been on this forum for so long and struggled to become Captain.  It's a role he wanted and still wants, so he works for it.  I run lots of things in my household: finances, purchasing the groceries or clothing, calendar and kids' activities, etc.  But my H is the one who kind of has final say-so.  I like that, because I am incredibly indecisive (6w5).  I overpower him sometimes, and we still struggle with it, but I am hoping we will both become more comfortable with our roles and I'm kind of glad to have the clarity and definition that comes with it.

You ask if you might be the Captain.  Are there women here on the forum who are the Captains in their marriages?  I'm curious. 

LHK

@redheaded_woman,

The fact that your attraction isn't being negatively impacted is the single biggest piece of evidence that he is the captain and doing a reasonable job at it. 

LHK

P.S.  The Mitchell and Webb video (while funny) is a terrible example of captaining IMHO. 

redheaded_woman

@forestleaf No female captains on the forum of which I am aware.

redheaded_woman

@LHK That's kind of what I've decided.

We get along really well & I'm attracted so I don't see the need for my continued attempts at figuring it out.

He takes care of shit, I don't have to nag or correct or question him.

PurpleGuy

If you asked Wife who the captain of our relationship is she would look at you like you were stupid and tell you that we are equals that choose to be together due to mutual love and respect. she takes great and well deserved pride in earning her ASP and BSP (The BSP came while fighting breast cancer). She is a strong independent woman that doesn't need a man to take care of her.

In reality I am the ultimate authority (now thanks to MMSL) and have the ultimate responsibility of doing what is best for our family. 

Example1:  Her little sports convertible is getting older and is really uncomfortable for me due to my size and how low it sits. I'm retiring in 5 years and thought we should have our "retirement car" paid off my then. I conducted research, selected several vehicles that would suit our needs and presented her with my ideas. I gave her the list and told her to test drive each one and fill out a form for each one. She has a lot more free time than I do and I trust her judgement so I delegated this duty to her. We narrowed the list to 3 and I test drove those. I hated her top pick and vetoed it. We discussed it, reached a decision, went with her #2 choice, and I made an offer. When the deal was done I told her where to go to pick up the new car. 

Example 2: Me. "Lets go out for Mexican tonight."
Her: "How about Italian instead?" 
Me: "We'll do Mexican Tuesday, I'm really craving their chili Colorado". We go out for Mexican. 

Or

Me. "Lets go out for Mexican tonight."
Her: "How about Italian instead?" 
Me: "That's a great idea, I love their baked ziti. Be ready in 10 minutes." Because I really don't care I'm just hungry. 

The best way to say it is "Options, number one?" She sees things from a different point of view and mind set that I value. I also defer to her expertise on all things medical or medical insurance based. Even Kirk deferred to Bones on medical issues and Spock on science issues. A captain cant possibly know more about everything than everyone else. He picks his staff and trusts their judgement and input. He will follow up but not micromanage. He is ultimately responsible for every decision he makes and every decision made my his staff.

Shepard

"You guys like italian?"
"Yes"
"No"
"Yes. I love italian. And so do you."

judyjudy

@redheaded_woman @forestleaf ;

My H isn't a captain - not sure if that means I am the captain. I feel like it. I feel like I organise and lead the family and pursue future plans. 

redheaded_woman

@judyjudy From what I know of your situation, I would say you are the captain by default.

However, I don't think you want to be, do you?

HildaCorners

I'm Captain, though not by choice. Any single mom is a Captain.

We have several married female Captains by default on the list, mostly married to lazy bears.

I don't think we have any happily married female Captain / male FO marriages here.

Cowboy

In a couple of the many books I read on trying to improve my marriage (one of which might have been MMSL, but I can't remember), the author said something like "If a couple is asked who is the 'leader' of the marriage is, and the couple can't come up with an answer, or if the wife blurts out 'We're equal, we don't have a leader,' the actual leader is the wife."
The fact that you don't have an answer to that question would seem to indicate that YOU are the captain, @redheaded_woman . But, as someone else said, you still seem to be attracted to him...with some reservations. In my opinion, he's probably Captain of a lot of things in your day-to-day life, but his dog-ate-my-homework foot-dragging about his testosterone, and your sex life in general, is not just a source of frustration, it's also a big abandonment of his post. This dereliction of duty is a big DLV. That's just my take on the situation.
I agree 100% with @HildaCorners ... most of the female Captains have lazy bear/couch bum husbands, though there are exceptions, husbands who sound fine but just don't know how to make things happen (Elise's husband comes to mind, IMHO).
I also agree 100% that I can't think of a single case, here or in my own life, where a couple with a female captain has been truly happy. I think, whether we like it or not, that's not what we're wired for.

I do think that it can be difficult to truly know who is in charge, especially if work is divided up fairly well. I might ask you who offers up plans for activities, but that just might mean that one of you is more social than the other. In my own marriage, I really wasn't sure who was the overall Captain (I think that's what I answered on my triage). That would usually mean it was her, but I got a nasty shock when we split. As my walk-away wife was getting the hell out to be with the POSOM, our marriage counselor told me bluntly that she was unable to go to the bathroom without my permission, and that she was going to flounder on basic adult functions. And...she was absolutely right. For example, my ex actually brought me the brochures for the apartments she liked, and waited for me to pick which one should should move into. She had no idea how to budget time or money without someone telling her how to do it. She still tries to get me to tell her what to do on basic decisions (like cell phone providers). Meanwhile, I had absolutely no trouble getting along without her. Even my kids have said that things at her house are nonfunctional and chaotic. It turns out I was the Captain, even though it didn't feel like it most of the time.

redheaded_woman

@cowboy nail on the head: "In my opinion, he's probably Captain of a lot of things in your day-to-day life, but his dog-ate-my-homework foot-dragging about his testosterone, and your sex life in general, is not just a source of frustration, it's also a big abandonment of his post. This dereliction of duty is a big DLV."

Although he took care of the T....the cialis is the foot-dragging issue.

JellyBean

From another thread --

Why would you allow your ex boyfriend, the one who treated you so horrendously, to be your Facebook friend? This strikes me as very, very odd. Help me understand. 

redheaded_woman

@jellybean Excellent question. He friended me probably 7 yrs ago?? 

But, I think it was a combination of things:

-"nice girl" syndrome (felt like I "should")
-didn't want to him to think he mattered so much that I wouldn't accept the request
-wanted him to see that I'm successful/ happy 

JellyBean

Isn't this a man who essentially raped you? What would a High Value Woman do? Would she be Facebook friends with her abusive rapist ex boyfriend? 

I fully understand the desire to remain engaged with a toxic person in hopes of resolving the issue. However, the possibility of success with this approach asymptotically approaches zero while having a high potential to continue to stir up conflict within your life. 

Love yourself enough to drop kick that asshole out of your life forever.