On Initiation

casapollo

I'll second Coconut oil! Get it in the vitamin aisle at wally world. Get the extra virgin, organic stuff. Less than $15 for a tub that will last for years. The kind in the cooking aisle is cheaper but it is processed and has no odor - which you might prefer - but I like the smell of coconut. While you're there, pick up a couple little travel screw-cap containers like you might see lip balm in. Scoop some oil out into those and place them in strategic places in the house. Hell, tell her to keep one in her purse - makes good hand lotion or lip balm. It is solid to semi-solid depending on temperature yet melts readily with just body heat. They say it fights yeast infections too - double bonus! It does last much longer than any of the water based stuff. Just be sure to use enough at a time.

Katt

Vitacost.com is the cheapest place I've found to get virgin coconut oil for sex and cooking

Kheldar

So, logistics question -- when you buy the tub, do you have a separate container to keep the bedroom stash? If so, what kind of container has been useful?

BrokenRecord

To the guys on here who have fear of initiation/asking for what they want/being disrespectful... If your wife told you point blank that they want you to initiate (including suggestions), that they want to you vocalize any and all desires and they would be happy to oblige, if they told you the things they like and find hot, if they told you they want you to be rougher(more dominant), would that be reassurance enough to open up and go for it? Or would you still have reservations or fear?

casapollo

casapollo said:

 While you're there, pick up a couple little travel screw-cap containers like you might see lip balm in. Scoop some oil out into those and place them in strategic places in the house. 

I think these are usually found over in the travel kit section where the little soaps and  little shave creams and such are, along with empty spray bottles, etc. The ones I use come in packs of two, a little larger than a Carmex tub, plastic, variable colors.

Katt

@Kheldar‌ I scoop some into a small screw top jar to keep on the nightstand separate from the 54 oz vat I use for cooking.

fredless

@BrokenRecord said:

To the guys on here who have fear of initiation/asking for what they want/being disrespectful... If your wife told you point blank that they want you to initiate (including suggestions), that they want to you vocalize any and all desires and they would be happy to oblige, if they told you the things they like and find hot, if they told you they want you to be rougher(more dominant), would that be reassurance enough to open up and go for it? Or would you still have reservations or fear?

Depends.  In this example, do I have Low T or are my T levels normal?

MiddleMan

BrokenRecord said:

To the guys on here who have fear of initiation/asking for what they want/being disrespectful... If your wife told you point blank that they want you to initiate (including suggestions), that they want to you vocalize any and all desires and they would be happy to oblige, if they told you the things they like and find hot, if they told you they want you to be rougher(more dominant), would that be reassurance enough to open up and go for it? Or would you still have reservations or fear?

In my case? It would be game on. To this point, my wife has never indicated any interest in more sexual dominance from me or anything "kinky." Most of the FOs here are telling me that she probably doesn't know/believe it herself. If she were to give me that kind of a green light, I'd go with it.

IfOnly

BrokenRecord said:

To the guys on here who have fear of initiation/asking for what they want/being disrespectful... If your wife told you point blank that they want you to initiate (including suggestions), that they want to you vocalize any and all desires and they would be happy to oblige, if they told you the things they like and find hot, if they told you they want you to be rougher(more dominant), would that be reassurance enough to open up and go for it? Or would you still have reservations or fear?

I'd still have reservations, but that's probably my own issues coming up due to frequent/constant rejection.  It wouldn't result in bold initiations from me initially, but I might try something small, but out of my comfort zone.  If that went well, then I'd be likely to push out of my comfort zone a bit more, etc.  

If I made that small effort, and was still rejected...good luck getting me to try being bolder.

BrokenRecord

Damnit @fredless‌ I'm trying to rationalize my way around this T issue! Work with me here!

BrokenRecord

@MiddleMan‌ I didn't think I was into dominance until I read a bdsm geared romance novel and now? Bring it on! I've had to open my husband up to the idea of it and I can get him to do some light hair pulling/spanking. He also likes to hold me a little tighter and act a bit more muscley. I'm working on a dominant hand on my throat which for me is a huge turn on. I'm not sure if he has ever told me he explicitly he isn't in to it, but I try to show him via enthusiasm to encourage the behavior.

BrokenRecord

@Husband2point0‌ Not necessarily, I'm very sexually open yet I still find myself with a husband with such hangups.

Katt

MiddleMan said:

In my case? It would be game on. To this point, my wife has never indicated any interest in more sexual dominance from me or anything "kinky." Most of the FOs here are telling me that she probably doesn't know/believe it herself. If she were to give me that kind of a green light, I'd go with it.

Have you (speaking to all the guys in this boat) indicated to your wives that you'd be into any kind of kink / not strictly vanilla sex? Men like to remind women that they aren't mind readers, but women aren't either. Even if I went into my marriage knowing what kind of sexual escapades I was excited by (I didn't), it would have been a cold day in hell before I expressed them to him without him being the first to step out of sugar free fat free vanilla land. It is a rare woman who will be the one to take that leap of faith. And for me, even once I found out my husband was a little kinky, and I accepted that I was too, it took me YEARS to be able to verbalize just what I liked and how much. I still won't bring in the new action; that's on him. I am very sexually receptive, but not sexually aggressive.

MiddleMan

@Katt‌ asked: "Have you (speaking to all the guys in this boat) indicated to your wives that you'd be into any kind of kink / not strictly vanilla sex?"

I was about to give a lot of reasons and justifications why not.

Instead, I'm going to honestly say, "No." And work from there.

Capster

Yes I've expressed specific non-vanilla sex and no it does not help to open her up.  I think that to her, the sex is mostly about the O, hers rarely and mine every time.  So it is ingrained in her that the process leading up to the O is irrelevant because I can O with starfish.  So there's no motivation for her to anything differently than she's done for 25 years.

Which brings me to something I'm trying to reconcile from the book.  I'm never turned down for her starfish sex - just for specific acts.  But in MMSLP I'm not supposed to turn down sex, even bad sex.  So how do I convincingly prove that starfish is unacceptable?  As it stands now, I do what is in the book and never turn down sex, so I never have a chance to practice good OI.  So I don't know what the answer is.

Katt

Just so I'm clear, I don't mean talking about it, I mean pushing things a little in the general direction of what interests you sexually.

@Capster‌ Obviously I don't know (or need to know) what floats your boat, but what if you just do something that is a minor step toward an activity that interests you, then keep pushing it a step further and so on? Really tiny baby steps if your wife is sexually reserved.

fredless

Capster said:

Yes I've expressed specific non-vanilla sex and no it does not help to open her up.  I think that to her, the sex is mostly about the O, hers rarely and mine every time.  So it is ingrained in her that the process leading up to the O is irrelevant because I can O with starfish.  So there's no motivation for her to anything differently than she's done for 25 years.

Which brings me to something I'm trying to reconcile from the book.  I'm never turned down for her starfish sex - just for specific acts.  But in MMSLP I'm not supposed to turn down sex, even bad sex.  So how do I convincingly prove that starfish is unacceptable?  As it stands now, I do what is in the book and never turn down sex, so I never have a chance to practice good OI.  So I don't know what the answer is.

You can try moving her into different positions when she's starfish.  You can try fucking her rougher and see if she gets into it.  If she's not moving you can try to shove your penis into her mouth or go for anal (always stop at a clear no).

However, I will argue that used rarely, and not with anger, stopping in the middle of Blow Up Doll sex and telling her "never mind this simply isn't working" can be something of a wake up call to a 'lazy bear' wife.

growingafamily

Capster said:

Yes I've expressed specific non-vanilla sex and no it does not help to open her up.  I think that to her, the sex is mostly about the O, hers rarely and mine every time.  So it is ingrained in her that the process leading up to the O is irrelevant because I can O with starfish.  So there's no motivation for her to anything differently than she's done for 25 years.

Which brings me to something I'm trying to reconcile from the book.  I'm never turned down for her starfish sex - just for specific acts.  But in MMSLP I'm not supposed to turn down sex, even bad sex.  So how do I convincingly prove that starfish is unacceptable?  As it stands now, I do what is in the book and never turn down sex, so I never have a chance to practice good OI.  So I don't know what the answer is.

I believe it was pointed out back then this thread was all about BJTC that it's ultimately more about enthusiasm than about specific acts. I don't think you can walk away from starfish and say "starfish is boring and you won't try other things" but I don't see a problem if you're really feeling that she's not into it at all, saying "I can't do this with someone who doesn't seem excited to do it with me, let's try again sometime when you can act like you're enjoying it." The bedroom comes last, and all that. She needs to open up with the sex she's having before trying new things will even be fathomable to her.

redheaded_woman

@fredless‌ said: "However, I will argue that used rarely, and not with anger, stopping in the middle of Blow Up Doll sex and telling her "never mind this simply isn't working" can be something of a wake up call to a 'lazy bear' wife."

Just curious: how would that not have the opposite affect of "Wonder why he couldn't make it work?"

Not sure I'm explaining myself well...but essentially how would she know he meant it wasn't working specifically because of *her*?

fredless

@redheaded_woman said:

fredless‌ said: "However, I will argue that used rarely, and not with anger, stopping in the middle of Blow Up Doll sex and telling her "never mind this simply isn't working" can be something of a wake up call to a 'lazy bear' wife." Just curious: how would that not have the opposite affect of "Wonder why he couldn't make it work?" Not sure I'm explaining myself well...but essentially how would she know he meant it wasn't working specifically because of *her*?

When this was an issue with my wife, approximately 15 months into my Map, my wife asked what the problem was and I said, "I don't want to have sex with a blow up doll."