Married to a smart, strong willed wife.

Is it possible to have a good marriage when my wife is probably smarter and stronger willed than I am? We have been married for five years and things got bad on year four-textbook case. Sex dried up and I complained. Thankfully I found the blog and forum and started the MAP. I have eliminated most screaming Reds but the baseline is that she is high alpha and we clash a lot. It's been a rollercoaster the last 6 months when I started showing high value and stopped whinning. Still, it's not ideal and I feel as If I need to be on alert all the time. We grew apart but interestingly enough we have had better sex. I have considered divorce because we don't have kids yet and I definitly will not live the rest of my life in this state of ambivalence and uneasiness. Maybe I have been the distant ahole she spoke of this weekend. Maybe I have to DHV but keep showing good Beta, but when  being rational I sometimes think that our personalities are just not a perfect match for H and W. I am the nice guy istj high SC and she is the independent strong woman Intj high D.  We really want to work things out but it is taxing. 

thanks
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Comments

  • TenneeTennee Next Stop: AwesomevilleSilver Member Posts: 5,963
    Ok, I have a very strong-willed, independent, smart wife.  I would describe her as competitive and an Alpha personality.   And she defaults more and more to me in decision making and I am clearly the Captain these days because I MAPped like mad.  

    Let's start with a couple questions:

    Is everything a battle?  I mean like 'What's for dinner' become  WWE Smackdown?
    Does she defer to you at all?
    Does she ask you for little decisions - what's for dinner, what are we watching tonight, what color should we paint the kitchen - and do you answer decisively or say 'I dunno, whatever'

    You have some hallmarks of the Control Battle many of us have gone through in early MAP. 
    "Fall down seven times, stand up eight"  Japanese Proverb

    How will you live well today?
  • gamechangergamechanger USASilver Member Posts: 10
    Thank you for the quick reply. No. Not every discussion/decision becomes a hard battle. She defers to me on many decisions including the ones you referred to above, like what's for dinner? She likes when I lead, but I think it is a long way until I become the true captain. Since I started to Map, I have been much more decisive and always have an answer. I am fully aware of that every small decision adds to the leadership quota. But it's not a quick process. I do feel that when we argue about our relationship, she seems to be the one with the better arguments. Like I said, I am displaying a lot less low value. 
  • TenneeTennee Next Stop: AwesomevilleSilver Member Posts: 5,963
    She likes when I lead, but I think it is a long way until I become the true captain. Since I started to Map, I have been much more decisive and always have an answer. I am fully aware of that every small decision adds to the leadership quota. But it's not a quick process. I do feel that when we argue about our relationship, she seems to be the one with the better arguments. Like I said, I am displaying a lot less low value. 
    I went back and read your Triage/Intro - where are you here?  What Phase are you in?  How would you describe your SR balance?   I saw you read Primer, very good.

    You told the story in your other post about the surprise trip and how she loved it.  Did you keep that kind of thing up?  

    What does the above in bold mean?  What are you arguing about? 

    As I MAPped, I noticed her deferring more and more to me, so some of this may just be time as you continue to improve and MAP. 
    "Fall down seven times, stand up eight"  Japanese Proverb

    How will you live well today?
  • Frank_LondonFrank_London in transitSilver Member Posts: 1,853
    Is it possible to have a good marriage when my wife is probably smarter and stronger willed than I am?
    Smarter, sure.
    Stronger willed, yikes!
    No.
  • Frank_LondonFrank_London in transitSilver Member Posts: 1,853
    Oh sure. I didn't say it wasn't fixable, just that it wasn't good as it stands.
    TenneeTPoke
  • RorschachRorschach "Just ask the axis ..."Silver Member Posts: 1,458
    Mrs R is very definitely smart and very strong-willed, and very extroverted. I am smart, strong-willed, and very introverted. We're in a good spot now, and we balance each other out most ways. Her smarts, etc., are part of the package that attracted me to begin with. I don't think her willingness to follow my lead has anything to do with her being smart and strong-willed, and I don't see it as an impediment to my leadership, though in moments of leadership fail I will sure get shit-tested. Your leadership, good, bad or indifferent, is on you, not her (assuming there is no medical or BSC). Answer @Tennee‌'s questions.
    Tennee
  • gamechangergamechanger USASilver Member Posts: 10
    The forum is great to keep us accountable. So, the update is this: after realizing what was happening and how beta I was (caused by my NG upbringing and her strong will) I eliminated some of the worst reds right away (i.e. Stopped whinning and looking to her for strength and started being more individualistic and caring for my needs.) I basically stopped orbiting her but I thought I was still being supportive and being a good husband. When she was away for a month long medical rotation, I went out with my friends, and worked on my map. When she came back she said I was totally excluding her from my life and and said she was worried and was not secure in the marriage because I had totally checked out. After the feedback, I tried to come back to a good balance of alpha and beta: working on myself and keeping a good level of nice beta. That was when I felt that things improved the most. We had a good holiday season, a great two-week trip to San Francisco and a acceptable level off attraction. To answer the questions posed above: if we argue about something trivial like chores for example she will bring back the topic that I have changed and that I am totally different and that she does not recognize me and that she misses the old me. I have been telling her that I feel that she could contribute more to the well-being of the household by doing some more tasks here and there, more than what she is doing  and we end up arguing. My response to her is that I have decided to take care of myself for the good of the marriage. She keeps pulling and pulling for answers while I try to be discreet and not share much about the map and all the reasons that I have learned which caused our situation. She has said that a year ago she would be comfortable having a kid with me but currently she's not sure. She said she is even worried that I am not faithful, which is crazy! When she said that, instead of agreeing and Amplifying, I simply said no. She caught me off guard.  She also says I "attack" her sexually with no love, and grab her butt and boobs out of the blue and she does not like. Interesting enough I think our sex life improved in the last few months and she was more into it. I am aware I need to map and increase my confidence level to be happy and have a good marriage, but I have to admit that I have considered divorce as a way to maybe find a better match for the both of us.  
    Tennee
  • gamechangergamechanger USASilver Member Posts: 10
    She has asked me to schedule marriage counseling. 
    [Deleted User]Tennee
  • TenneeTennee Next Stop: AwesomevilleSilver Member Posts: 5,963
    After the feedback, I tried to come back to a good balance of alpha and beta: working on myself and keeping a good level of nice beta. That was when I felt that things improved the most. We had a good holiday season, a great two-week trip to San Francisco and a acceptable level off attraction.

    Ok, this is good.  Anything alter this trajectory? 

    To answer the questions posed above: if we argue about something trivial like chores for example she will bring back the topic that I have changed and that I am totally different and that she does not recognize me and that she misses the old me.  I have been telling her that I feel that she could contribute more to the well-being of the household by doing some more tasks here and there, more than what she is doing  and we end up arguing

    I got this too in spades, I very definitively stated Old Tennee was dead.  There was no going back.  This upsets the power balance, and she tried to get it back.  Sex got used as a leverage weapon; I didn't blink.  It's a tough time to go through for the control battle.  Trivial stuff can be shit tests - pass them - or genuine issues.  Are you Jeeves?  Is there a balance of responsibility for household duties that is mixed appropriately to work/home life balance?

    My response to her is that I have decided to take care of myself for the good of the marriage. She keeps pulling and pulling for answers while I try to be discreet and not share much about the map and all the reasons that I have learned which caused our situation. She has said that a year ago she would be comfortable having a kid with me but currently she's not sure. She said she is even worried that I am not faithful, which is crazy! When she said that, instead of agreeing and Amplifying, I simply said no. She caught me off guard.  She also says I "attack" her sexually with no love, and grab her butt and boobs out of the blue and she does not like. Interesting enough I think our sex life improved in the last few months and she was more into it. 

    The changes have destabilized your relationship,  which may have been needed.  But if you disappear - go total Alpha Asshole - she'll start to worry.   You need a good Alpha / Beta mix, which you talk about.  But if 'take care of myself' means you put tons of distance and then gave her 'I'm checked out' signals, that's caused her worries.  She's also reacting to your changes, physical and otherwise.  I got tons of flak on drivebys, I learned to balance them better - I went overboard with at first.  



    Some of what you're going through is very familiar ground for me, cause I lived it. I adjusted fire as I MAPped and learned.  It was a rough, rocky time.   I think she's clearly worried about your changes, so some focus on building relationship comfort is needed - lots of threads here on that. I can't help you on MC; but lots of people here have experienced it, so I'll defer.  
    "Fall down seven times, stand up eight"  Japanese Proverb

    How will you live well today?
    [Deleted User][Deleted User]BlueWolf
  • gamechangergamechanger USASilver Member Posts: 10
    I appreciate all comments. I know I need to map a lot more and that the road is a long one. I found interesting though that some comments from guys in the thread recognize that I am in a tough one.  Others said I am on the right path and the hard times are part of the change journey. Advice from the ladies who commented say that if I show great competence, strength and leadership ability, my W will trust me and yield control. That is fine and dandy, but I am struggling believing I can get there. Yes. My confidence is low and I am faking it until I can make it. Things are not very bad, but what if it is unnatainable with my current wife and realistically I am only going to keep struggling with a less than ideal balance of power (i.e. Cannot earn capitaining rights). I don't want to consider divorce ever but I am getting very concerned that a divorce in the future would be much worse. We dont have kids yet, but we are 34/32. Also, we might have to move across country for her school (i can get a job in any large city). I feel we should stay but I cannot keep her from her goals (career goals).  So folks, I am in a big state of ambivalence. I know my flaws, can easily recognize where I should improve, but doubt my ability to change enough.   

    Angeline
  • TenneeTennee Next Stop: AwesomevilleSilver Member Posts: 5,963
    None of us has a crystal ball, so I can't predict the future for you.  But I can tell you this, I count at least three "I Think I Can't"s above.  If you think you can't, you'll be right. 

    I experienced a lot of what you posted earlier in my MAP - everything from massive shit-test and hamster attacks to full-blown arguments, and the tossing of the "D" word around.   There were some ugly times - I was mightily tested, and still am.  But its a lot better now, a lot.  I had to hold my ground, and re-double my efforts. 

    Re-read the posts from the FOs again...like, twice.  I did, very interesting perspectives here.  @elise may be providing you a great window into exactly what your W is experiencing right.now.  

    I personally would move forward with conviction and determination.  Go through the Phases, and continue to Awesome-afy yourself, and you'll be in a much better place to make decisions.  I think you still have work to do my man...
    "Fall down seven times, stand up eight"  Japanese Proverb

    How will you live well today?
    [Deleted User]PersephoneRorschach
  • Frank_LondonFrank_London in transitSilver Member Posts: 1,853
    She has asked me to schedule marriage counseling. 
    She wants marriage counseling. Yet she has assigned you the task of organizing it.

    Dio you even agree that you need it or are you just 'going along with it' because she says so?

    If she wants it so bad, why can't she schedule it? It's her idea and her project. All she needs from you is agreement that you'll go along to any appointment that she schedules.

    Also - I wonder if counseling is a tactic to try to pull you back into line, using the authority of a third party.

    stillasamountainTennee
  • TenneeTennee Next Stop: AwesomevilleSilver Member Posts: 5,963
    @elise said:  "As for your most recent post ... She can't hear your self-doubt. Talk to your friends, family, or people here if you are having moments but please not her."

    Very.Important.
    "Fall down seven times, stand up eight"  Japanese Proverb

    How will you live well today?
    Persephone[Deleted User]AdamBecker
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